Defending Christmas At School

This is family policy matter program is produced by the North Carolina family policy Council of profamily research and education organization dedicated to strengthening and preserving the family and now from the video.

Here's John Rushton, president of the North Carolina family policy Council, thank you for joining us this week. Profamily policy matters. It is our pleasure to have met with his back on the program's legal counsel with alliance defending freedom or radio plays a key role in the center for religious liberty since joining ADF in 2010.

Matt has worked on important cases advancing religious freedom for elementary students in schools across the nation.

Another Christmas season has begun and so have the attacks on the celebration of Christmas in the public square, including at public and at some private schools nationwide. PDF recently sent a legal memo to 13,000 school districts across the country to clarify the legal rights of students and schools regarding the celebration of Christmas and the use of religious themed materials and symbols at school were to be talking with Matt today about that letter and what is constitutional in terms of the celebration of Christmas and other religious holidays at public and private schools, for that matter met. Welcome to the program.

It's great to have you with us again, thank you so much for having me. What we appreciate so much all that you and ADF do and really love to have all the partnership that we do with you know it seems like every year about this time during the Christmas season, we begin to hear more and more about attempts to censor the celebration of Christmas in schools last year. ADF was involved in some cases related to schools. I know in South Carolina, and Wisconsin and probably in some other states tell us about the circumstances surrounding those cases and about ADF's role in these legal actions absolutely you know it it's a song we hear every year around this time is the cries we need to get Christmas out of: Christmas is offensive and we got to step down on the celebration of the religious aspects of Christmas and that's with these two situations you mentioned involved both of them dealt with Christmas carols being sung by school choirs.

The one in Wisconsin there was a master's fingers is what the group was called in every year they did a traditional kind of Christmas performance that involved traditional clear Christmas Carol. You got in a silent night and some of those that for hundreds and hundreds of years of inspired people during the Christmas season that included them in the program and next thing you know there start getting complaints know we need to. I canceled her performances because were not going to have these thoughts were knocking to perform the religious songs same sort of situation was going on in South Carolina. They were including traditional religious Christmas carols and I get school officials get nervous and start telling them you have to take out the songs.

If you want to perform this idea that these classical song songs that have been sung not just in churches but in public celebrations on the radio by fingers both famous and then unknown throughout the years, these songs cannot be performed at public school because of their religious origins and so ADF got involved in the situations we reached out to the school cinnamon informational letters to know that these cases have already come before courts and time and time again courts consistently said schools can perform these classic Christmas Carol, regardless of the fact that they include religious components to them so they can sing silent night and they can sing. Hark the Herald Angels Sing another song for really influenced Western culture, and schools have nothing to fear from including them as long as there's a valid educational purpose for doing so will we explained to the schools was all you gotta say is they songs have important value they teach students certain musical styles that have really influenced the holiday season and so I we gave support for the school. In addition, community members rallied. It was incredible to see so many community members standing up and saying we want the song students standing up thing we want the songs and even the teachers and choir directors emphasizing the importance of including the song in thrall of this effort together, both of ADF in the community. We encouraged and got the schools to change course at they ultimately decided to keep the religious carols as part of their program and is often the case.

Nothing happened. There was no lawsuit. These atheist groups are threats ended up being hollow threat and we ended up being able to keep these traditional carols in school where they need to be will that's great now as I mentioned just recently, ADF sent a legal memo to about 13,000 school districts nationwide about religious liberty during the Christmas season.

Tell us briefly about that memo and its purpose memo is to help stave off exactly what happened in Wisconsin and South Carolina. We want to be on the offensive with school so that when these complaints come to school when they start getting a complaint from a parent about a Christmas Carol regatta Christmas tree in the lobby or letter from some atheist group that schools are equipped with a quick legal response of how to address these complaints to show parents are those that are complaining that the law protects this that it's important for students it it's important for the educational goals of the school as our letter is just to help clear up some misinformation to clearly explain what the law says when it comes to school celebrating Christmas. It it's so click K to do so and to talk about the religious origins of Christmas and whatnot and to equip schools to be able to handle the situations when they come up, and in addition to the legal memo. I know that ADF also provided schools with a fact sheet that lists common myths and facts about celebrating Christmas at school and I like to go through a couple of these, which I think will be helpful and informative for listeners.

One common myth is the public schools and school officials are prohibited from even using the term Christmas and holiday greetings, or even in describing the annual two-week break that happens to take place at the end of the year and remember a case a few years ago here in North Carolina where a community college actually attempted to ban the word Christmas, student clubs, annual tree sale shortly. These types of things cannot be constitutional. You know it, we we see this pop-up so often with with this misinformation that you can't call it Christmas you have to call it the holidays or winter break for you to call him holiday trees as I think what was going on with the situation at the North Carolina community college and again this this perpetuation of anything that points to the religious origins of Christmas of Christ being in Christmas that schools have to center that that's completely false.

Our Congress, the US government recognizes Christmas as a legal public holiday.

If it's perfectly fine for schools to recognize that in the state were to dismiss all students semi-celebrated. Some nights choose not to, but we have the score celebrating what Congress is declared as a legal public holiday. Same thing the Supreme Court as long said that schools can recognize important holidays like Christmas.

I did have religious significance that there's nothing unconstitutional about doing so.

In fact, all are doing is honoring the best traditions of America and those that are celebrated by the vast majority of Americans both religious and nonreligious perfectly constitutional for schools to celebrate Christmas and call it that, what about the message schools recognizer celebrate Christmas than they have to recognize all religious holidays. Is this true or false, and why this is absolutely false. Schools are not forced to recognize every single holiday just because they choose to recognize recognize some of the more predominant one. Schools are of course free to recognize Christmas and Hanukkah and Kwanzaa any others that they want to, but they don't feel that they need to therefore recognize hundreds and hundreds of other holidays, just to accommodate everyone.

Schools often have to pick and choose, about which holidays are going to celebrate and in a lot of schools basically do it on where in our students going to be absent.

The most what's going to result in the most number of absences we had schools that day and so schools choose Christmas and the other major holidays to do so. So they don't feel like they have to be open to every holiday just because they make a choice based upon the educational needs of students to focus on Christmas. Another major holiday. Now another controversial issue this time of year has to do with religious Christmas displays on public property and we see this not only in schools but in public parks, and things of that nature such as nativity scenes when it comes to public schools in particular can a student group display a nativity scene or other religious symbols during Christmas and are there any guidelines that they should follow.

If they choose to do so absolutely you know there's a lot of great ways to schools and student groups can display nativity scenes another. I religious icons and religious symbols associated with Christmas. One of the easiest ways the school itself can do it.

The school itself can create a display in the middle of the school that celebrates various aspects of the holiday season and so they can have a nativity scene, they can have a Christmas tree. They can have a menorah they can have a Santa Claus and a snowman and by bundling them all together and showing a lot of the different traditions that are all celebrated around the Christmas holiday season and doing so for the purpose of educating students about the different traditions and beliefs that Americans share. The school is shown about educational purpose.

And by having that valid educational purpose. They can include those religious elements, the nativity scene, the menorah, whatnot, and it's perfectly constitutional time and time again courts have upheld that practice. But there's always schools can do it as well.

For example, they could create an area where different student groups could choose to put up a bulletin board or poster that celebrates the members of that group's own beliefs about the holiday so you can have a Christian club put up by a nativity scene and in celebrating the birth of Christ community service club could put up talking put up a poster talking about feeding the homeless and bring those that are need during the season and different student groups, non-Muslim group of whatever Jewish group put up their own recognitions as well and by doing that the school is now letting students express their own views about Christmas and set up a student group chooses to be overly religious order to not be religious. That's their choice and all that is perfectly constitutional and there's a multitude of ways schools can do this to allow these talks types of displays whether the school itself chooses to do it or whether it simply creates a forum or an opportunity for student group to individual students took Mr. beliefs and thoughts about the holiday season. Based on your experience, why do you think we continue to see examples of governments or schools or even those in the private sector attempting to censor Christmas. Do you think it's a case of confusion about the so-called separation of church and state, do you believe it's based on outright hostility toward Christians in particular and utterly seems to be the case with some of the activist groups that pursue these types of actions or do you think it's just a lack of understanding about the religious liberty rights that students and just public in general has limited with the first.

There are a lot of school officials that are genuinely confused about this. They have for years and years and years heard this drumbeat from groups like the ACLU and freedom from religion foundation. Another group if that separation of church and state. You can't have any religion in school whatsoever and they beat this into the minds of officials and teachers over the earth so much that school officials believe that they've got a duty to censor Christmas that they got a duty to tell students not to celebrated her to tell teachers not to talk about it to take out Christmas carols in their genuinely confused. They've been told long they've gotten bad legal counsel in a lot of situations, so there's a lot of misinformation out there to get perpetuated year after year after year. It's important for us to educate school officials on this so that they are best prepared to educate students about the cultural origins of Christmas, but at the same time, there's definitely a lot of hostility out there. I think one of the most egregious event examples we think pop up in the last few years. This is a couple of atheist groups going after operation Christmas child. This is a program where the Samaritans purse the religious organization that collects you boxes of Christmas present little toys and goodies and things like that and that they sent to impoverished needy children around the world. We sing several schools that have taken it on their own to encourage students to put together own shoeboxes and then they supposed to Samaritans purse as part of this thing just simply help children in need.

Atheist groups have come after an attack. This have attacked schools and students working together to provide gifts for those in need, simply because of the affiliation with Samaritans purse religious group.

Now look at that and say this isn't about confusion. This is about outright hostility towards the religious aspects of Christmas towards any religious involvement in schools with any discussion of religion in school, or perceive the school cooperating with a religious organization like Samaritans purse so I think there are groups that have an agenda that they have. It is their goal and their purpose to completely sanitize schools of any religion whatsoever. If I think it's important to one inform and educate schools that are ignorant about it but number two to call out and stand up to these groups that do have an agenda that are hostile and biased against religious aspects of Christmas to stand up and say enough is enough.

Were not going to allow you to censor and to sanitize all of these great aspects. The religion has brought to Christmas. The important role it played in an bringing richness and beauty to our Christmas celebration and so I think it's a it's a factor of both of both ignorance and hostility and I think they require different responses, but both responses are necessary to stand up and make sure that Christmas is not sanitized of all of its religious origins will I couldn't agree more.

And that's why was so grateful that you and ADL have produced this legal memo and factually limited so broadly across the country, including in North Carolina now. Hope this will not be the case with a feel for listeners who are students and/or parents are confronted with their desire to express their religious liberties at school during the Christmas season is working. They go to get a copy of the legal memo and the fact sheet. Today the office put together. They can visit our website www.alliancedefendingfreedom.org.

We encourage people to visit our website get more information get empowered equip so they can contact us and get us involved to help as well. Well, that's great advice and great encouragement. Matt Sharp unfortunately were out of town for this week, but I just wanted to say thank you so much for joining us on family policy matters, and Merry Christmas.

Thank you and Merry you and all your well family policy matters is information and analysis, future of the North Carolina family policy Council known as weekly discussion on policy issues affecting the family you have questions or comments, please contact 91 907-0800 visit our website and single-family.org