Threats to Our Religious Liberty (Part 2)

Family policy matters and engaging and informative weekly radio show and podcast produced by the North Carolina family policy Council hi this is John Rustin, presidency, family, and were grateful to have you with us for this week's program is our prayer that you will be informed, encouraged and inspired by what you hear on family policy matters and that you will fold better equipped to be a voice of persuasion for family values in your community, state and nation. Today we bring you part two of a two-part series featuring Luc Goodrich, vice president and senior counsel at the Becket fund for religious liberty right so so far we've taken four of the five most pressing threats to religious freedom. We've had abortion-rights gay-rights religious discrimination and now we just discussed non-Christian religious minorities.

What would be the fifth major area where what I call the public square and this is the relationship of government to religion when it comes to religious symbols or funding over religious observance and in public schools and then I would argue that the posture we should take as Christians, we don't need the government to promote Christianity in order for Christianity for we also don't want the government to be hostile to religion in the public square.

Rather, we want the government to treat religion as a natural part of the public square and the goal should be the government to leave religion as uninfluenced by government power as possible and so I play out in the book.

What this means across a variety of different disputes and it means the government doesn't scrub every religious symbol from the public square. Rather, it welcomes religious symbols as a natural part of human culture. Just like it welcomes other aspects of human culture. When it comes to funding the government doesn't cut off funding from all religious groups to confront religious groups or nonreligious groups on equal terms equal initial terms estimate is not influencing people's choices about religion that's really at the end of the day.

The best posture of government toward religion in the public square, so you say that the church is unprepared for the changes that we are facing in this arena surrounding religious liberty what you mean by that, I think it is so good in America for so long.

Such great protection of religious freedom, we haven't really had to think that deeply about religious freedom as American Christians now just Starting to wake up to the very significant threats and challenges ahead and were not ready.

And so our faith elite.

We don't just need to stuff her head with knowledge we need to be ready to take action, and I think there's two major areas. Think about as Christians. One is our overall posture towards religious freedom conflicts. I think as Christians when we think about religious freedom. We initially start asking you what actions can we take to win religious freedom cases and conflicts and protect ourselves. But I would argue I have a chapter in my book preagreed called let go of winning and I think the first question we should ask is Christians is not how we win, but how we be faithful to God in the midst of religious freedom conflicts. So before we ask what we do about religious freedom.

We ask what type of people are recalled to be in the midst of religious freedom conflicts and so much of Scripture was written to Christians who are facing violations of their religious freedom, facing persecution and we need to reacquaint ourselves as Christians, with the message of Scripture to the persecuted church. These are principles like expecting suffering rejoicing when it comes striving to live at peace with all men about hearing God.

Rather than fearing men and being willing to continue doing good, even when it's costly also loving our enemies blessing those who curse us.

Praying for those who abuse us in caring for our fellow Christians in the midst of suffering and conflict so that the first and primary goal is not just how we win, but how we be like Christ in the midst of religious freedom conflicts and then on the second major area. We need to be taking action in ascriptions. This is just one of the practical steps we can take to protect ourselves and our ministries and our businesses from the religious freedom challenges ahead as we were called to be innocent as they also are also called be shrewd as serpents and there's so much we can do, whether we are a business owner, a ministry leader and pastor or person in the pew. Their concrete steps we can take to prepare for the religious freedom challenges that interesting.

I think people might be surprised to hear you have a chapter in your book that's called let go of winning, you have such a winning record yourself, but I'm assuming that you used these principles that you been talking about when you go in and confront some of these challenges. I think the greatest reward of my work as a religious freedom attorney has been getting to stand shoulder disorder with people of faith who were staring down the government and were saying we will not cave on our conscience and fortunately, by the grace of God we won the vast majority of our cases and you Becket we have a 90% win rate over the last 25 years and were undefeated at the Supreme Court.

Absolutely every time a second court. I want to win the case because it's it's just to protect religious freedom.

But if we really look at Scripture with an honest view we see that Christians do not always win. Many Christians suffered for their faith. And if it's unjust when the government punishes us and violates religious freedom without cause about God can bring good out of injustice I think is Christians sometimes we get so fixated on winning and so afraid of losing that we actually fail to be good witnesses in the midst of religious freedom conflicts listening to family policy matters weekly radio show and podcast of the North Carolina family policy Council. This is just one of the many ways since he examines works to educate citizens across North Carolina about policy issues that impact a lot of families. Our vision is to create a state a nation where God is on religious freedom sources families were in life's cherished more information about his family and how you can help us to achieve this incredible vision for our state and nation. Visit our website@ncfamily.org again that's in C family.org and be sure to sign up to receive our email updates, action alerts, and of course our flagship publication family North Carolina magazine. We also love for you to follow us on Facebook, Instagram, and said this is a little bit of an odd question, but when you're standing shoulder to shoulder with these attorneys.

I am sure you're aware of the fact that you're being measured as as a Christian man as well as how you argue, rightly so, you're able to form some relationships with some people who are defending basically quote unquote the other side and in whom I deform some rather interesting perceptions about what Christians are like. I think one of the most eye-opening experiences I represented a Muslim mom whose mosque was opposed by local residents and attempted to be shut down by the local government, and it was remarkable in the same type of conflict, the minute represented Christian churches and in almost the same types of conflicts about this Muslim mom was was a remarkable individual. He continually expressed love and forgiveness toward those who are opposing him express trust in the American legal system that they would eventually allow him to worship God is as is conscience dictated which the court eventually did, but it also led to a long-lasting relationship and read. We still are in touch to this day, and now he asked questions about the Trinity and tries to persuade me that it doesn't make any sense.

And yet I get to tell him why think Christ is the only way to God and we can earn our salvation so epic when we do stand up for religious freedom for those we disagree with. It can give us some very surprising opportunities. Some some doors to share the gospel and it's also complete the right thing to do. A couple of times about how we should be willing to suffer, and that we aren't always guaranteed to win talk a little bit about that.

How are we as American Christians, possibly losing sight of this concept will I think it all goes back to our mindset in our heart attitude when we face religious freedom conflicts and so often. As Christians we think of these as political and legal disputes. First and foremost, but ultimately they are theological disputes and religious freedom is not just about winning cases to protect protect Christianity is a much deeper issue of biblical justice and we have to be prepared as Christians sometimes will not win cases and we will suffer and I think if there's one thing I could. I hope that folks will take away from my book free to believe it is. We should not be approaching these conflicts from a posture of fear. Fear of losing our rights. Rather, as Christians, number one, we have plenty to be hopeful for just because we live in America we have a strong constitutional guarantee of religious freedom we have Supreme Court justices that have repeatedly upheld religious freedom and I have mentioned in my Becket we have a tremendous winning record in these cases, so was plenty of reason for optimism even if we just look at our secular legal system that is Christians. I love the passage in the gospel of John, where Jesus says in this world you will have trouble.

And Jesus was a realist, and when it comes to religious freedom. I think we will see increasing numbers of conflicts and we will face trouble, but in the very next breath. Jesus said, take heart. I have overcome the world. And so our hope does not ultimately rest in favorable laws or good election results were good Supreme Court. Our hope rests in the person of Jesus Christ, who has overcome the world and that may mean in some cases we win religious freedom disputes and the culture and our legal system is more just and we can rejoice in that other times it will mean we lose religious freedom disputes and yet we don't have to be afraid of that because we can still glorify God in the midst of suffering because we worship the risen Savior who has overcome the world. What you're saying now is this what you mean by theology of religious freedom. Youth mentioned that term. Yes, our theology, religious freedom needs to understand religious freedom as a basic issue of biblical justice and also needs to understand religious freedom as a gift from God and something that is not always going to be guaranteed. We need to reclaim the message of Scripture to Christians who have suffered throughout history and be prepared and willing to rejoice and bear witness to the gospel, even when religious freedom is under threat and finally we call to live differently that now that religious freedom is being threatened and and is not, as he said earlier something that we can take for granite I think were called the one a call to reject fear and gloom when it comes to religious freedom and so often as Christians is almost likely take pleasure in predicting how bad things are going to be about where I think we are called as Christians to cultivate joyful trust in the goodness of God to reject anger and hostility toward our opponents, but rather to love our enemies speak to them with gentleness and respect to do good to them and to check our motives and are we really entering into these conflicts simply to win and protect ourselves where we entering into these conflicts because we realize religious freedom is the basic issue of justice and we want to glorify God in the midst of these conflicts in a definitive think as Christians we need to rest in the victory. The completed victory of Christ, and that needs to inform everything we do.

When it comes to religious freedom. Thank you very much for the positives and optimistic outlook. I really appreciate a very fresh outlook at as well so we just about out of time for this week. But before we go live. Can you tell her listeners where they can go to learn more about religious liberty and also perhaps where they can go to get your book free to believe the battle over religious liberty in America.

Yes, absolutely. So you can find for you to believe wherever books are sold on Amazon.com. You can also get it off my website@lukegoodrich.com and if you'd like to follow religious freedom, litigation, and the cutting edge cases that are in Klingon courts across the country.

You can follow our work@becketlaw.org SBE CKD TLA W.org great Luke Goodrich. Thank you so much for your work defending religious liberty in America and for being with us today on family policy matters.

Thanks so much for having me Tracy policy matters.

This is been part two of a two-part series featuring Lou good of the Becket fund for religious liberty. We hope you enjoyed the program and plaintiff to them again next week to listen to the show on law and order your part one of the series, go to our website it into family.org that's into family.org. Thanks for listening and may God bless you and your family