Kevin DeYoung: Time to Step Up

Kaiser is a question I think I know your answer. But when I am leading you.

Yes, in our family well spiritually because it make you feel amazing when we can define what is a better question is with that look like yeah and I leading you spiritually and leading the boys together grown men now, but was I doing that you said yes. I love this when you're initiating prayer, like I love it. If you lead us in prayer every day, every hour, but I loved that. I love when you are reading something in the in Scripture. Seem like this is how good I can look at this. I felt like our wine spiritually. When I hear you talking to the boys about spiritual matters and not in an awkward kind of way, but just everyday life kind of hey have you thought about this Bible verse, when you're talking about something or struggling method that gives me security gives me hope it gives me joy, and it makes me feel like men work together in this welcome to family life today where we want to help you pursue the relationship that matter most and Dave Wilson and you can find us family life today.com on our family life, family life today.

I feel like almost every marriage asked the question. I just ask what's it look like to have Jesus at the center.

Your marriage was it look like for a husband. I just talk about leadership.

What's it look like for a wife.

I think it's a really confusing question. I don't think a lot of men who are followers of Christ or women would know exactly like I literally wasn't sure exactly how you can answer why think like for me to lease virtually everyone has a different idea and expectation of what leading spiritually. Should be, and my idea of you leading spiritually at first may have been a little later you're laughing because you could put a burden on me that I could never never reach me when I wanted you to be like Dennis Rainey in FACT that you told me I wasn't that his friends Rainey wouldn't do that and we alter our house every night anyway but let's talk about that later. We got Kevin DeYoung with us in the studio in Orlando walking through elected I coveted it is great to be with you. I just I'm just hearing about all your profit :-) like okay very life today right your wife Tricia here without nine kids yet all that we don't have any more that were without nine kids in Orlando oldest of 1788 is 18 youngest is one about every two years to the math. So I got asked are you doing.

Furthermore, I only got I hope are done, all things every child a blessing, but I think I'm feeling old right now.

I know this is a great we could be doing anything. We are states away from the children love them but sometimes you love them far away and I can't imagine how busy your life is your pastor in North Carolina now right that Christ's covenant Church in Matthews and also you do work with RT in similar work you've written my books. I don't know 1215 yes it author they don't even know were like only written to you written multiple don't know you know that you all your fabless writer and we love what is right and you written a book recently called men and women in the church a short biblical practical introduction which is really comprehensive beyond just marriage, but there's this couple chapters and there were you talk about men women roles in marriage, which is where were going to go today.

So let's talk about that great. Where would you start well you could start a Genesis good place to start is in the beginning. Someone once said all good theology starts in Genesis. You can start there at the beginning the Bible because you see how God made this pair and from the very beginning. He made them to be a compliment complement with the knee. You also should complement to say nice things, but they each for each other there there a pair so that when God said is good for the man to be alone wasn't just companionship. That's part of it wasn't just he was lonely. God could've given him you know hundred golden retrievers were given in a literal man cave with buddies to hang out in, but that's not who he made he made a woman for the man because uniquely the man and Adam and Eve would come together in this covenant of marriage and they would fulfill the creation mandate, be fruitful and multiply have dominion on the earth and everything starts there in Genesis with with God's design.

From the very beginning to create a man and a woman and just. That is sort of controversial today.

Actually, a man actually woman those two for each other so that in marriage when we come together is not just the union of husband and wife is a profoundly a reunion because she was she was taken from the side of man. And when you're join together in marriage and one plus union that's coming together God's design for a husband and wife. And so it starts there in course we Jesus reinforces that. And then there's lots in the Bible in Ephesians 5 is probably where we want to land at some point because that's one of the typical marriage sermons and that's where Paul gives the most detailed instruction about marriage and it's still relevant 2000 years later, and even as we talk about that.

Can you talk about in linear chapters of how husband is to lead he's to serve and he's to care and you got that from Ephesians 5 yet so I think Ephesians 5 is in this part of Scripture that sometimes scholars call the household codes is Paul just giving you talk about marriage and to talk about kids that context of slaves and masters. We would say no employer's employees, but he's giving instructions and part of what he's doing is he's trying to address men and women at their unique area of fallenness so that's why said it starts in Genesis because you see, what was the man supposed to do. The man was supposed to be a loving sacrificial leader. He was the one who got the command in the garden when when Eve said, isn't it interesting that even though Eve was want to send Paul in Romans five says sin actually came into the world through Adam because God held Adam responsible for Eve sin, and so you see from the beginning that the man was supposed to be this leader.

He was supposed to care for and protect his wife to what we see in Genesis. He's blaming his wife, God, you made this woman and so I was saved. Men have a tendency because of sin to either be dictators or doormats in marriage either. You know cruel harsh, even abusive, authoritarian or I think just as often the problem, maybe even more often in a lot of Christian homes. The wife is off doing the Bible studies the wife is really on fire for Jesus, the wife wants to pray in the husband when it comes spiritually is is a doormat and what Paul is saying here in Ephesians is okay. Men I know your weaknesses. God knows what your weaknesses will you're prone to get this wrong.

So let me tell you what you need to do and you need to love your wife as Christ loves the church and that means leading and one of the things that strike got this many John Piper first said this, but I say the book part of leading is the husband is the one who says the word let's that's good yet know. Of course the wife can these are one-time but rigid.

You know the definitions but general postures that the husband is the one who say let's pray let's go to church. Let's read the Bible and not just spiritual, but let's go on a date I'll get it.

I'll get a sitter I'll fly you to Orlando and let's go do that and let's talk about this were having big conflict. Let's sit down. Let's work through this.

Let's pray together. That's the husband leading as Adam was meant to lead and sadly, because of sin, how we often don't know how to lead this often that you know that simple phrase over that in your book. I thought while those so simple and yet that's often where I was passive.

You know where I was the doormat in your words. I was, not be in the one the initiate that's what you long for thinking that right there that could be one of the biggest takeaways I feel like for man. I feel bad for you guys because when you hear you need to be the spiritual leader of the home. I think a lot of men are thinking what is that mean he simplified it.

It's taking the initiative with the word.

Let's highlight where I failed and I blame this on in, Adam and I went on to me for God talk to Apple breath over your butt is like you know I kept thinking she doesn't want the way I lead. She wanted to be like Dennis or somebody else and really what she was longing for his just lead just initiate and when I start to do that like even another way to say let's is I'll be the first to forgive.

I was ready first to step toward you in a conflict rather than step away. I'll be the very producer Jim is that Jim said about leadership. I thought that a guy can get his head around. It's like I was intimidated many times because I like & leadership spiritual in our home. Looks like this every Sunday night.

If you preach for services or church in Europe. So come home and then lead us in the family altar and I was was like oh that's what it looks like I'm so bad at that, rather than wired that way, but I can lead in a filing like you just said I am leading in a powerful spiritual way, but I didn't feel like I was but I was yeah and it's really important for men. Hearing this, to realize yet. You're to be wire different ways and I think you're right.

A lot of men get really intimidated and it is strange because they might be really successful at work they might be great athletes and yet when it comes to this. They see no my wife is doing her devotions in the morning and I'm hit or miss, and she goes to umpteen Bible studies and I'm just honestly thinking about coming home watching football and they don't feel like they know how to do it right.

So some of it is the men you know, you do need to step up. I was say the central message like in my book is not women sit down, but men stand up there.

Yes, there are roles are certain things that men do. And women don't do, but men need to stand up but they need to realize that God's not expecting that you have a seminary degree and that you have 30 minute sessions you come to our house. It is okay I am not kidding or not, I wish I were better. I wish I could say we had great family devotions every time, or even that we had family devotions every time you know when we do sit around the table that is a big win for us, with everybody from ages 1 to 18, and go in and so a lot of it is taking the initiative to pray with my kids to pray with my wife to move toward a mean II is one of the things of the Lord brings back to mind. You know you get convicted. I'm sure by your own sermons if they send or if not, then your wife will convict you of conflict and we all have them in your my wife and I are not were not yeller's were Frost ice, hold it, of course you know she were here she would be kind about it. But the other usually my fault but everything in me as a sinner, says she's at fault and await you know maybe I'll budge. Once she budge is a little bit. Once she saw Zoll thought but I'm waiting because I know what she did wrong. Maybe I did something but wait for her than the Lord reminds me let's and Marta being the leader part of loving good thing Christ and wait for the church. Yeah. Good thing Christ incited it to his Mariah to clean yourself up and then I'll die for you. There is of Christ that for us.

How much more husbands we take that initiative even on those rare occasions where okay yeah your 10% and she's 90% of the of the fault if those have ever happened. Still, you make the initiative and at least you'll I have been blessed with a wonderful wife if I'll take that first step to say I can see how I did some things that I shouldn't and said some things you know it's amazing how just taking that first halfstep can start to thaw. What had been a very icy situation as opposed to the times when I start by saying I want you to know that I forgive you because I know that I can lend you. Why would I would say this just a follow-up on that because when I've done what Kevin what you just said and it sounds like Trish response to that and us to I and 41 years of marriage. I can't think of two or three times that when I am gentle but strong in leadership and saying less. I don't think hardly ever you said no you just you melt your like all is that you will said I love you I thanks for leading thanks for being the spiritual leader I need and I often as you said earlier found myself leading stronger outside the home, I felt I knew what to do was better at it.

Where listeners have heard the story. I won't go into details but she did say to me one night on a Sunday night. I wish the man that led archer lived in this house how it came out I might want you talking about and I again I need to hear because he's like manner watches one church are stronger praying your casting vision, home, and you're just tired and you don't bring that energy and course I fronted really maturely. Thank you. Know how you know I like I'm the best man I know.

And then the next day I'm like she was right, and of all the disciples that I have a part of being an impactful person in the most important rate here and I'm not leaving them in a way that I am called to as a husband and it's clear as you said in your book.

And in Ephesians 5. This is my call. I am called the leader. So in some sense, it meant for me step up echoes like I can do this citizen like impossible like okay doesn't require a Masters of Divinity edges requires. Let's open the word to get a honey let's talk about this because as a listener. Women are thinking yes I am longing for my husband to say let's any time.

I think as women we often feel the burden like were teaching our kids the spiritual truth that I for the butts, and where let's go to church to our kids and were hoping our husband coming I talked to so many women that are longing for that. So help us as women to know we say our hesitate to listen to this podcast radio broadcasting.

If you just start saying let's should we even approach this, or do we just pray about it with our husbands when we feel like he's not doing anything you're listening to David and Wilson with Kevin DeYoung on family life to hear Kevin's spots in just a minute.

The first family life.

We believe God's design for marriage and family isn't some old-fashioned fun killing rulebook but that it's good true and beautiful design. If you're passionate about more people catching that kind of vision for family you consider partnering with family life to all this week with your donation of any amount we want to send you Kevin DeYoung's book, men and women in the church. That's our thanks to you when you give this week@familylifetoa.com or when you call with your donation at 800-358-6329. That's 800 F is an family L as in life and in the word today. Right now, back to David Anne's conversation with Kevin DeYoung and how wife can encourage her husband to be a better leader. I think there is a place to say something. Yeah, you have first Peter you can win over your husband's without a word, but the sudden absolute you never can bring something to your husband's attention. If Trisha said something in the heat of the moment.

It be nice if you help put the kids to bed. That's true, but is hard to receive versus a comber to hate it would be really great if when your home you could set the phone aside because she said to say that to me. So here's maybe some very practical advice for women listening that moment when you feel most strongly that you want to say something like this. Wait.

Wait for another moment because probably in that moment your maybe frustrated and he's not doing what you want him to do right there and that's going to be hard so wait till the next morning when you're out of that particular situation. Maybe, and certainly there's a place to say honey I love you and you know that I respect you.

It's so poor we don't like to admit this day. But how important is their wives respect us and that's what Paul says wife respect her husband's because the wife has a certain sin predilection to and it's to usurp her husband's leadership and do not respect him so I think if a wife leads that conversation in a way that says you know I love you I respect you.

I want to follow you. It puts the husband and in a mind to.

Okay, I know that something hardest, but I'll listen. And it goes in the other way because I can imagine some husbands listening and say well that's great, David. Sounds like he is wonderful and Kevin, Nero, Trisha. That's really great that they are responsive when you say lens but I tried that and my wife doesn't like it and she rebuffs that leadership and and I would say to men that doesn't mean you stop bleeding. There may be all sorts of reasons may be her dad. Maybe her middle experiences may be all sorts of reasons why that could be hard for her to receive but I five found sometimes guys say what I tried to do the leadership thing in my wife didn't want me to do it so I guess him off the hook for doing that know you're not and even sometimes when the wife may say I'm not looking for that sort of leadership that's where all the more you need to do it gently, humbly, when simile but that doesn't mean you abdicate your responsibility need to continue to try to initiate the conversation, she may not even realize oh I don't want to leave but he still leading them because that's what you need to do and I think even in your chapter. We talked about with the husband role is and mentioned that you mentioned leadership care and serve that's wrong about those two words because in some sense I think when when our wife sees us serving them. Yes, there is a leader it warms. Her heart softens a heart to a place where they do want to respond my right yes yes yeah and that's where to even here lead we can immediately think family devotions family altar getting them to church and that's that's an important part, but I bet my wife would say well your your pastor and your good news. Make sure we go to church but I need you to care for me and show leadership in helping the kids get a bath at night and in making sure that your sit down with the seven-year-old and in reading with him and those are other ways of exercising care and service, and I mean this things is just just about universally true any of us listened as I know they would agree were likely not going to out serve our wives to have a I don't know any people more generally harder working in wives and moms out there so they serve so much. So we need to realize is there serving in all of those ways, some of which come natural, some of which don't that we need to see our role as husbands, but only here I am. I just came home from work, I'm ready to start throwing orders around. Well, that's not probably going to go highly well. I would say you need to show it's amazing when you have a warmth and humor. Whatever got personality God has given you one of the things I love to see is when my wife said Alexa play whatever and new music comes on and she sitting in and the kids are singing in their bopping around. I feel like I was at a gift from the Lord, but that's the sort of flourishing. I want you know it doesn't always show itself in while they all got dressed up and went to church. Of course we want that. But if I'm exercising the kind of service, care, and leadership. You can enter and there's a happy home more people they don't even kill them put their finger on it but they would feel. I hope that this is a place where were protected were taken care of. Where someone's leadership and authority authorities become such a bad word because it's abuse. So often, but God has authority Jesus and the great commission said all authority has been given to me authority is a good thing given by God to be used for good purposes and when we exercise that lovingly sacrificial. He in the home.

It is a real gift to our wife and to our children now think Kevin is you sharing that I was thinking of the phrase we've all heard, I think it's happy wife and in some ways we've often said that the wife determines the atmosphere, the environment of the home, but as you were saying I Kevin I thought was true because of a man if the husband is leading serving in caring and lovingly sacrificial. He laying down his life for his bride as Christ did for the church that creates a what you just I saw in my minds eye nine kids and you and Trisha danced around the house.

I don't know what it would look like in North Carolina but I saw this joy and I thought it that often is determined by the wife and mom but it doesn't always have to be that way if I'm loving her.

If you feel served by me of my boys felt that cared for the way God called me as a husband to do that that's going to create a joy in the home that I have a big part of being a catalytic part of them. Just you. It isn't just happy wife happy life like happy wives become happy because their man lives out his God-given role in the foot just hit me is like me as we step up to do that again. We said it. I think clearly it isn't this some biblical family altar thing. It could be good if you want to write but if you do it a different way to say let's open the word.

Let's pray I'm just one challenge a man right now Susan is thinking I can't do this.

Yes you can. You really can't just start small and watch what God does. That's right. If you say will you don't know how bad our marriage is right we we don't but were Christians. God brings dead things to life and so you have to believe in you. You guys do marriage conferences and written written marriage books so you know this. I'm sure you hear amazing testimonies, but it was a pastor and counseling her meeting with people almost a matter what the issue is if the husband and wife are both willing to take even a tiny step toward each other if they're just willing say I do want to get better.

I want God to help us no matter where they are almost without fail the Lord to lead them to make some steps whereas if their problems are small, but one or both of them say I don't really want this help you can give them all the greatest books you and you know they could live in Dennis Rainey's basement and it still won't because God these to be at work in their hearts. One of the greatest gifts we can give to our kids, and through our kids really to society into our churches is for kids to see a mom and dad that love each other and we don't even realize what were doing it all of our kids are growing up with a sense of normal and security. That's right. And I am so blessed. We talk about real people. Privilege is a big word today. You know there's lots of different ways to be privileged, but all the sociological research tells us that in a human level. The biggest privilege you can have in this life is to be born into a home with your mom and dad who stay together in love each other and raise you and we know there's listeners who that was in your story and God can still redeem that story.

But when husbands love their wives like that in kids see that it gives them a sense even when they sedate it.

I remember my my dad would always you know try to steal a kiss for my mom and Shannon Isaac still do that and do the things that you know Tricia rolls her eyes and stop and the kids are EU crows and yet I look back as a kid and there was something strangely comforting like these weird old people. My parents, they still like each other and laugh and dad is trying to you know kiss mom and you know that makes a big difference in just creating a sense of normal and joy in the home you been listening to David Anne's conversation with Kevin DeYoung on family life to a his book is called men and women in the church and will send you a copy when you give any amount today@familylifetoa.com.

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It really help us out if you rate and review S tomorrow. Steven and will continue their conversation with Kevin DeYoung as they unpack that crazy controversial word we find in the Bible called submission. You won't want to miss that one tomorrow on behalf of David and Wilson. I'm Shelby Abbott will see back next time for another edition of family life today family like today's a production of family life crew ministry helping you pursue the relationships that matter most