Joe Rigney: A Framework for Manhood

One of my definitions or summaries of masculinity come from CS Lewis and ice from Narnia. It's when King wound of argument says this is what it means to be a king to be first in every desperate attack to be last in every desperate retreat and when there's hunger in the land, as must be known again in bad years to wear finer clothes and laughed louder to scanty your meal than any man in your life first in last out laughing, loudest, that's the pitch of masculinity.

If there's an option. If there's a choice he should be the first through the door he gets to die first. Best part of his glory.

His glory is not he gets to be the boss he has the privilege of dying first. Welcome to family life today to help you pursue the relationship that matter most and nothing Dave Wilson and you can find us@familylifetoday.com or on our family life. This is family life. Things we talk a lot about here. Family life is men, women, husbands, wives, fathers, mothers, I mean it's central to what we do is central in the word of God. But we get Joe Rigney back in the studio.

The second ever president of Bethlehem college and seminary.

I know you think about this you write about this year, you get to be preaching of Biblical manhood and womanhood. I'm selling training because he has three sentences do that all essentially told us will see if you deliver this is in our culture today. This is an issue. Oh yes yes there's so much confusion. So in trying to get deep, and think about the biblical picture of this three sentence framework that I think is biblical and that will help people put things in the right bucket is my three sentences, God's acts establish basic facts to God's commands, it those facts and the number three our applications ought to fit those facts and those commands of three very simple sentences another three words you both.

Each of those indicative's imperatives, applications, indicative or statements of fact is what is in God's establish those in the way he made the world and you could think about this in terms of knowing the beginning when he made man and woman, and he made Adam first, and then said is not good for man to be alone makes a helper fit for him. There's all sorts of things there that God just establishes basic facts.

That's where the husband's headship comes from its effect until the Bible treats of the husband is the head of the home, it doesn't.

And this is important, it doesn't say the husband should be that of the home. It says he is the only question is can be a faithful one unfaithful one. The burden of leadership rest on his shoulders.

The question is whether he will exercise it will be husband like Jesus or husband like Adam who abdicated and blamed her so those are basic kinds of facts that God establishes in creation these are facts of nature and and we know these are the sort of things that are there controversial coming out of that are like the ways that men and women are just, wired different. Can you say briefly what is headship yes to headship would include I think two elements at least one is a responsibility to order me like order. People around but like kind of structure internally and then to represent externally.

Jesus is the head of the church and he's responsible for caring providing protecting ordering internally and then representing the church as the headset is headship and I think that God is designed the world such that husbands are to be the head of their home.

And that's a good inglorious thing. Now that's a fact. Now what's the command that fits the fact well. Husbands, love your wives like Christ loved the church that command fits that fact. Similarly, wives submit to your own husbands, as the church omits to Christ that command fits those factors basic facts and then when you read to the Bible you say these commands are not just arbitrary willy-nilly, God's of the coin. It's God's commands fit the facts that he has put in place and then now we have all sorts of decisions to make in our lives that the Bible doesn't specify, how do we make those decisions. How we apply the Bible.

Well, we want our applications to fit God's commands in God's facts just the basic framework and it's been a really fruitful thing for me because it allows us to kinda try to cut with the grain of the way God is made the world and not feel like men and women have to be identical because were not. It's glorious that men are different than women, and women are different than men here talking to college students all the time. Yes. How does that fly with women today in a culture where women are pushing back more than ever, yeah, you know, in terms of I feel like I'm a leader. I feel like he now I hear that submissive thing and there's more pushback than we've ever had.

That's deftly true and I think that if it's just phrase that way as here submit and it's not put in this larger context of house.

God made the world when it's reframed as God has given a particular glory to women you were made for something, and one of the things you were made for is you are. Every man is a son of a father everyone and every woman is a daughter, and that means every man is a potential father and every woman is a potential mother.

That's true whether or not they ever actually bear children, and I guess the potential is the engine and got his built you to fulfill that calling. Whether or not it's your biological children, or in other contexts like I'm a I'm a fatherly like figure 2 college students to spiritual fatherhood or spiritual motherhood, and if you think about that the quality of fatherhood and motherhood.

It's liberating. I think for men and for women to feel like I'm free to be a man or woman. I'm free to be a father or mother are so woman doesn't have to compete or try to be a better man than a man that's not gonna work. Instead, she's free to be a mother's sister, daughter, and that there's a particular glory to that. There's a feeling of quality that she should just lean into and flourish rather than feel like I've got a compete in the man's world semi-sat in my mantle.

I don't mean whether she can go work outside the home are not like any of you look at Proverbs 31 or something like that.

Like that lady today of Proverbs 31 was written, but today like she's run like a midsize company she's like the household manager and that day is like she's got all kinds of people that their work. So it's not about competence you're saying, why would she want to become like the man Karen God is made her so beautifully unique as a woman and that position is just as glorious in a different way then that's right. And one my favorite quote GK Chesterton said, if I put the sun beside the moon and if I put the city beside the country but the mountains beside the sea, but the man beside the woman I suppose some fool would ask which one is better at great as it is a particular glory send Chesterton that skin like it's foolish to compare, and that way it's good to recognize the differences because the differences are good so we had Sam Albury Jan family today months ago. Talk about this very topic, and he was pretty insightful and love to hear your thoughts on this loveless eye she can. That's the whole questions also ignited. It's more than just all biology. We note, it certainly includes all biology, but it's going to be more than that because most of what God has to say to humanity in the Bible. He says Thomas has men and women without distinction as men and women in: but because there are some things gold says to men, and some things closest to women that shows us that there is a difference between male and female that is not just biological. There's something about the way we think and the way we behave.

That means that God has particular things to say to us, but I think I want to be hesitant to find pin down what the essence of each of those things is I think free masculinity is being a male person whose ghostly country femininity is being a female person who is guilty on there's two things will end up looking slightly different, but I'm not sure I can quite pin down exactly what that difference consists old in first Timothy two bolt holes about men lifting holy hands in prayer without belittling and again that may reflect that.

I see it, that something in us man that likes to bring and say that the focus seems to be rather than wrestling with each other, but an you wrestle with golden prayer and tone that's that tendency into actually something that is spiritually productive and ungodly.

Yeah that's I think is right to say it's a difficult thing to pin down, and yet it is something that we intuitively recognize there's a difference between minimum like a father's relationship to his son is different than his relationship to his daughter and he loves them both in their both his children, but there is no organ or even flipping around. We talk sometimes about the parenting as a category is really fathering and mothering and there's a lot of overlap between fathers and mothers they both kind of issue commands, but the and they both you know, care for, and do provide all that kind of stuff, but there's a difference in quality and the way to I think draw out those qualities is to recognize God has given us both a mission I think is what Sam is getting other. The commands are given to both and if we faithfully pursue the mission of God. Those qualities will emerge in the course of it, how you dress the man that become abusive or just stay take that role of headship and yet they missed treated her mishandled that so headship the given it's just gonna be there.

It can be abused in multiple ways. So, domineering headship guy thinks mainly Woodhead means being the boss in order. People around site that's not headship is the model for headship Jesus and Jesus does issue commands and he does put things in order, but it's his presence. That is kind of the fundamental thing writing about like my role as the head of my home. It's my stable grounded presence that is the thing that kind of brings stability to the whole thing. That's me exercising headship, not by barking orders hardly ever do that. I don't need to do that if I'm doing the other things well it's my steady presence just being there be the happy father thing we talked about that in previous interviews about being the smile of God, your kids like that happy father thing is meant to be a stabilizing thing in the home and it is another image that comes we lot is I'm trying to set a beat and then my wife is and what what's can give the harmony and the harmony is what people notice the harmony is the thing that people go well. The baseline that beat. It's what that harmony launches off of, but it's kind of it's more foundation and therefore is more hidden at some level, some if you have a different kind image. But the idea is there's a glory to that expression, but it needs something stable and sturdy and I think that that's part of what husband headship of the fathers headship is supposed to be in the home that is a kind of anchor how he taught that to your sons type I is that look like now tell me ungodly man – so there's a chapter little booklet designed for joy. I wrote seven things and we will rebel. Seven of how I try to impart things to my son what one of them is from CS Lewis and ice from Narnia. It's when King Luna argument says this is what it means to be a king. I think you could substitute this is what it means to be a man in his definition here so I think that he's using kingship as a way of getting a masculinity.

This is what it means to be a king to be first in every desperate attack to be last in every desperate retreat and when there's hunger in the land is must be known again in bad years to wear finer clothes and laughed louder to scanty your meal than any man in your life. First, in last out laughing, loudest, that's the pitch of masculinity. If there's an option. If there's a choice he should be the first to the door he gets to die first. That's part of his glory. His glory is not he gets to be the boss he has the privilege of dying first of taking the bullet for now. She may have to take a bullet next that make sense map like he's going make the first sacrifice, she may have to sacrifice what he should be the one.

If he pushes her through the door first. I think even in our confused culture.

I think everybody would say that he was off. We just had this conversation if there somebody in your house you hear noise who goes in Think universal right now, there could be some women there like I medical protect my husband, but can I don't care David stronger than I am.

He's bigger and yes, I think most women say yes your first out here last out. I think we generally my love laughed the link to that good so that is the smile of God is right it is and if masculinity is the glad assumption that the definition of pastor for the money was the glad assumption of sacrificial responsibility. The laugh is the glad sacrificial first in responsibility and the responsibility means heat, he not only needs responsibility, but he needs to have the support and encouragement help in order to exercise that this is why the Bible doesn't when it gives, this is what was at the commands but the facts thing it says to the husband love your wife and it says to the wife honor your husband and we go will does that mean that he does need to honor her and that she does need love him cycle of course not.

But there's a particular element there. He's going to feed soul lies on her honor.

More than her love and she's going to feed on his love more than on his honor. His his respect for her is a good thing and I can be there but there's a different fuel that were running on as men and women and part of our task as Christians I think in the culture we live in words. People don't get it is first to just live it because it is attractive, it is actually attractive.

And God made the world in such a way that people go, whatever they may say whatever lies they may want to believe push comes to shove, like a woman. Whatever she may say, think, and say she was the guys you go to the door first.

That's what she's actually a follow and so than I wanted to teach young men find your mission and go do it and what you will find is if you got a mission if you got something that God called you to do the right kind of woman. Look at that site.

I want to come along. I would help that was me the day I can change the world and I don't want to miss it because I want to do that to be with him to help him. Yep, I did of you made him helper fit for him and that's not like a helper like a servant is a partner out of his side next to him.

One rabbi said it means to contend with that said, I feel like I want to contend with Dave to take this territory and I will help him to do that Jesus can be in front of the print exactly right executor that Steven and Wilson with Joe Rigney on family life to a no go anywhere because working to hear what each of them thinks good leadership from a husband can look like in just a second. The first if you're looking for studies for your small group they can help you feel connected and known help you love and know God more studies@familylifetodate.com why you're there, you can use the code 25 off that 250 FF to save on all leader materials again. The code is 250 FF family life to a.com right now, back to David and with Joe Rigney as the each share how husband leading can be a really good thing. So even talk about headship and leadership. Think of. Specifically, as a husband, or maybe a dad if headship could look something like to be the head to be the leader means to be the first to blank yes I know Wayton I'm not passive I'm gonna be the first to lead in this way. Think of two ways we get to just entity 110 Nine, for that matter, what we are only here you 1st mL Woody visit Jake. I like to let your wife go first. Then when I think of a husband is called to lay down his life for his wife. The thing that comes to my head is the husband should be the first to out serve or serve his wife and family in the picture that comes to my mind is Jesus washing the disciples feet and this is the God of the universe who created not only all of creation, but creating each of them and noticed every part of them and he's washing their feet like it's mind blowing to me and so when I think of a husband serving out serving his wife with a smile on his face. He may not always want to do it but still I want to do this because that's my role if that's headship I'm all in, all in the file into that definition of serving because when we hear headship. What is a woman. We contended think is domineering and controlling someone lightly say abusive and they are running as far as they can from that, but to serve out serve everyone in the family who that's remarkably good Joe for a couple and they need to package I saw a Jamaican accent and others are one of them is going to sound like oh okay if you have a say with the first husband should be able to stand up to his wife. This is what I thought oh no pupil is running a man who can't stand up to his wife can't stand up for his wife. What I mean by that is not put her in her place, but the capacity to receive criticism from her and to not buckle and blow up or shrink back, but to be able to hear and listen and not be undone by it. To have enough stability in himself, and who is in Jesus to be able to receive criticism feedback pushback advice counsel help and not shrink. That's only my stand up to not make sense. Yeah, he's not shrinking he's standing up. That's one the second one is, he should be the first to apologize now you see how this pair so the weather he's he's to be able to endure criticism from his wife and be able to listen and not react and not you know blow up or not shrink away but then if he's been wrong if you done something wrong. He needs to be the first to Sam sorry even if it was 90%. Her fault that fight they just had 90% of it was her scent and 10% was his. He gets to say sorry first for the tent so interesting because I just met with a group of women a lot probably 50 women had this conversation who apologizes first in your home. I would take 80% of the time it was the husband's right which is amazing but I think in my heart because Dave is definitely the first apologetic hike more prepping fault.

It's terrible that I think that really is a sign like bow at the humble and beautiful thing that a husband can delay to go Dave and what it does is if I'm leading and I'm thinking I want my wife to apologize. She just spoke disparagingly her. She was cruel and what you just did whatever was.

She said something was rude, her apologize will sure help lead lead.

You said something rude, so I should say I'm sorry for what I said that's the beat of our home.

As we keep short accounts and now she can fall in there and say I'm in the same sorry and then similarly, if I didn't sin. Then I want to be able to absorb that and not simply apologize to Makepeace so I remember one time a friend of mine was a bachelor party, and his advice to the groom was if you didn't sin, never apologize, and don't lie your wife never lie to your wife because it is Jesus upset and you just try to make it go away so I'll Sam, sorry. Even I don't think I was wrong. I'm on the lie to smooth it over as opposed to standing up to her which means now we have to have a harder conversation is can take more work, more effort, that's leadership candidate warriors who I want to make one more comment on what you said though it's interesting we did a seven-day reignite your marriage challenge on our social media. In it was like the fires gone are the fires low you want to get that fire still back up the night and so as we are laid out what events are about like a seven day 50 minute workout for marriage right. Guess what the first one we thought like wow this never occurred to me it was that if you own your sin and say I'm sorry for it. Apologize something happens to the fire in your marriage that lights up your wife's heart. She's like now that I'm it's bigger than just apologize like when something happens in relation that's good I I change my when you're going Joe having your dog and is like I had be the first to initiate reconciliations which is apologize yet, but when you're talking. Here's what hit me be the first to get in the word and leisure family because I've so often, especially as a pastor seeing women leading the family spiritually know in the work and again I must say that the women I want you to know the Lord and be digging in their but I so think so. Often the man is passive and lets her do that. And she doesn't because she sorta has to. In some ways always liked kids more than a husband and even if for working a lot of times are still the kids line so I think we do generally teach our kids to an overflow. I think that you're saying for the man stepped ended. Yeah, I mean I'm just saying man when it be something if we were the first to initiate. Let's dive in the word to get another one was for me the process of spiritual was pray with you the first one to pray you been listening to David and Wilson with Joe Rigney on family life. Have you ever found yourself scrolling you know it's where you just keep seeing post after post of the world kind of just losing its mind. It's scary and frustrating is in it, you start to feel like, can someone do something about this. Somebody should do something well when you partner financially with family life, you're doing something your helping parents and families grow in God's word and his plan for their lives. You're doing something by making a difference one home at a time.

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