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July 28, 2022 10:00 pm
Wondering how to support your wife in the way she’s made? John & Hillary Ferrer talk about their path as John empowered her to launch Mama Bear Apologetics.
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I think part of what it means to be heard is to be seen and to be valued when you see them and value who they are, then those little acknowledgments that are hearing them. They mean so much more. But if Soames is not insane. Yup yup I hear you sure thing right away.
It doesn't sound like you're really hearing them even if the list welcome to family life today to help you pursue the relationship the matter mouth and Wilson and Dave Wilson and you can find is that family life today.com or on our family life, family life today. We've been talking this week with Hillary for rare. She's the mama bear apologetics.
The helps us answer questions that our kids are asking about God and it's been some great programs and if you miss them go on to our family life podcast network and download those and listen to them.
But today we want to do some a little different with her and actually her husband as well yeah it's fun because Hillary's husband John is coming to the studio with that topic that's really close to my heart about working to talk about today and it's about women feeling heard and what that really means and said I wanted to bring you in and first asking Hillary just as a woman keeping time in your life that that was hard for you because you felt like I am not being heard.
Naturally, if I'm not being heard.
I will just talk louder for women to like yeah hear me out as injury or were there.
:-) Hillary is a unique and delicate desert and that too, but I think about your dad heard you yet helped to fuel heard from early on in the really does change the trajectory of your whole life look like your dad heard you so like I noticed when I was a kid, is I was aware when people were treating like a child. One of those things where I even remember having a crush on a boy when I was in kindergarten or preschool, but I didn't like the way he sat because I thought it looked childish and I like old soul and I remember when I would play might with my friends. I thought we were playing like kids didn't like it.
Like I thought Will this is just how kids are supposed to play, but this is an actually who I am and I look at kids that age now might know their actually act like that because that's who they are but at the time. I don't know. And so my dad he took what I said seriously. He wanted to hear my thoughts and I talked to him about this later on that he could tell that when I asked a question. It was coming from a long list of other questions that I don't like you know I understood how he went to B&B went to see what DI couldn't understand how he went to F and that's where my question would come in on and so he could see that whole progression of thought beforehand and so he really would thoughtfully answer my questions. Treat me like I had important thoughts.
He heard you. He did indicate he treated me as even with the unique gifting and didn't mind me asking questions and not only did not mind me asking questions. He encouraged me to ask more questions and even now he still like this.always joke about when he's out dinner or something with that seed out of one of us had the question is just a yellow shot in the dark without their phone first to try to find the answer is where this work question*our interest in the same thing. So I think he made me feel very heard and like my thoughts were important but I remember this is not the case with my peers. I never felt heard by my peers.
In fact, I think I distinctly felt rejected by my peers because number one. A lot of them were really thinking are asking the same questions that I was but there was something about me that I especially girls tended to reject, and I remember like I was a cheerleader and that we be having some problem like you're stunned or something like that. There were choreography and I'd say what about this what about this and like no one would hear until the really pretty popular. One would say great if we listen to me 10 minutes ago. I just grew up knowing that's probably girls didn't hear me, and people my age didn't hear me. It was until I got to college when I started interacting with people who were like choosing to be in that conversation, but that feel like with your peers.
That's quite a while that there's something different. There was something wrong with me and that I needed to keep myself in check because who I was, was annoying and I didn't want to be annoying to people. There's something about who I was. That was wrong and this is the same message that were hearing right now I don't know if this is jumping too much ahead, the LGBT machine or whatever you want to call it, has capitalized on this idea of kids feeling out of sync number one with their gender into with their peers and saying if this is how you're feeling. We have the answer for you and what would I have done when I was young.
If someone said if you feel like this will, there's a whole group of us that feel this way and we have the solution for where you can fit and it's very possible that I could have gone down that route, but I think a lot more people than we even recognize. I think even sometimes, the pretty popular girls feel unheard and unseen, because who knows if they're portraying is the real person. I think in my life I felt like my dad didn't hear me and being the youngest of four.
I felt like my brothers were certainly heard, yeah, but I was trying to get my dad's attention in trying to perform so he would hear me or see me and so maybe I felt like my peers hurt me, but have that gaping wound of my dad never hearing me. It's interesting that we both had it in different places yet, but the result was the same kind of that. What's wrong with me, then I'm not being heard. And that's hard. Tell me about when you really felt like God hears me and thinking of Psalm 3417 it says the righteous cry out in the Lord hears them he delivers them from all their troubles. I think one particular time when I knew the Lord just didn't hear me but he was really making a point to say. I see you in everything that's about to happen is with my knowledge, it's not because I forgotten you now as before I was diagnosed with cancer, which was back in 2010 I've been having pain for about a year and didn't know where was coming from. And as it got worse and worse. I remember at this one point before I started having some of the test that finally did reveal what was going on every little tiny prayer I prayed the Lord answered it was stuff like I need a parking space please because I just didn't feel well enough to walk in summer or at the time I worked as a teacher and in the summer times. I tutored sobs just like I can't do this today.
I need to cancel and they would cancel or I had previously been a photographer know I have this photo shoot that I'm supposed to do. Please let them cancel and it would rain feel like that felt like the Lord getting my attention saying whatever you're about to walk through is under my old knowledge because I think suffering knowing that the Lord is walking through it with you is different than suffering and feeling like it's because Lord like oh I did realize what was going to let me coming, he was completely in control of it and he wanted to get my attention to show me. I am listening to you right now and so that was one of the things that gave me peace said that when that diagnosis of cancer did come down instead of it being like this bomb that rock my world.
It was more like I saw tornado from really far away and I was to start to strap myself and be like okay it's about to get bumpy. Let's compare for and then when it comes your like this. What I prepared for. I felt really blessed that he kinda gave me a heads up, and it might've been because I was listening for that he hadn't know if my experience is different than other people's or why bed. That was a time that I really felt like the Lord was get my attention. We talked about a little bit how many times in marriage.
Women don't feel heard and honestly for us. One of the loneliest times for me with in our marriage, and I've heard other women say that as well that you did not say that I am the opposite.
Talk about that so I like to tell my husband said that Bertha talk to husband, live with your wives and understanding that your PhD should be in John's background brag on so like I forgot about my love of apologetics. Before we got married in and so when he and I first started interacting it could spark that love again and I think he could see everything on this ministry that I'm doing now is probably more of a surprise to me that it is to him because he saw this in me back when we were dating like hell, how long they've been married 15 years.
Yes, the 2006. Our first date was in apologetics, William Langtry got the cosmological argument you really want to go apologetics conference as our first day we lived on opposite side of the country.
I was in South Carolina at the time just finished up are about to finish up my Masters of Divinity at Southern Evangelical seminary, and she was in California so we were going to happen across each other coffee shop, no Missouri or whatever we could meet in the middle there. So we had to meet and that's a big risk.
Anybody who's been to before knows that distance relationships where you haven't met in person. There's a big risk increasing my Facebook if it was MySpace when we were better yet, don't think we were intending to meet someone on there but would like to join, like discussion groups or whatever so that actually more common. I think MySpace was trying to do what Facebook is really good with creating this discussion groups you chose writing our minds mingle before we ever met in person over there that what you have your M.Div. you have your PhD so you both love learning, yet love apologetics you love Scripture theology so you saw that part of Hillary and you wanted to pull that out what I think part of what it means to be heard is to be seen to be valued when you seize and value who they are, then those little acknowledgments that are hearing them. They mean so much more. But if so much as nodding soon. Yup yup.
Sure thing right away.
It doesn't sound like you're really hearing them even after listening, you might distinguish between hearing and listening something like that. But as a husband part of what I can do to release your Hillary is to acknowledge that I see her as he wishes to see where she's coming from and I value who she is and where she's at and what I'm good at you, they will pull out things I like people to know that John basically was in grad school for 12 years to do what I'm doing now so in India. It is a pretty hundred 20 hour program that some of them are short of the hundred and 20 graduate level hours onto a THM and then on to a PhD and I was all prepared to be the wife he. It was following him around apologetics conferences and the professor's wife and the kids over you know after class for worldview discussions and all that stuff but because aren't I once I got cancer all are employment decisions revolved around who had healthcare and so when all the professor jobs went to adjuncts that didn't have healthcare. He had to sacrifice. Basically his academic trajectory in order to be at a job that would provide me healthcare to the point of where my now Dr. John Dr. Freer is working on a manufacturing line making Windows and now doors and supporting me in a ministry that really he was his passion to his passion to an end. He's the one that has the education now II have been into it, probably longer than he has just because I was into it when I was 12, but I haven't coming grad school for 12 years as long as you're in from first through 2012 to not make me feel guilty for basically doing this ministry and do whatever he always talked about how in your garden. John things. It is made you feel heard is made me feel heard and supported in all all go into that stuff that he's done. On top talk about him going into marriage conversations back and forth part of how birds have romance about what biblical masculinity for him to do what we talk about our theology of marriage.
We work through some of the stuff beforehand agreement. Okay, so I have to say that our fights are different than most couples like we fight a lot.
But, like this week one of our big fights was how to chart the ideas in the book like the divine impossible conversation anymore and so we can joke. I mean that's what we fight about, but we recognize that everybody has to figure out what their marriage is going to look like beneath the glory of God.
And I see Hillary and going into marriage.
I knew she's my garden, and whatever public ministry.
I may have. If I feel at home. I failed my first and foremost job as a husband is to make sure that my garden flourishes and to invest and bless her, so seeing her as someone to cultivate and see her ministry flourish. That's a blessing to me.
It's not a competition, we joke about how the secret to healthy marriages, trivial competition, but obviously it's not a joke.
We recognize that when it comes to the real controversy is the real competing forces out there. We are on the same team also gives the world when it comes down to it that's what he says to me all the time is like it just frustrated with each other how to speak were on the same team help. We are on the same team. What I mean.
I'm sitting here looking at you John thinking okay here's the dude with a PhD. Like you said 12 years of graduate school and you not tell anybody that you not like jumping in front of Hillary going by the way you did say ham Dr. John rare today will start acting where Roman also want to show me some euro ration asked me if it's okay not that kind of dog, but once they realize of got this ministry training's theological training. They change their language. The body language they start acting fake around me and I don't get to meet the real person, not to mention there's a higher standard of expectations. They expect me to never do stupid stuff, even if you've got a PhD. You know you still forget where you leave your keys. Every once in a while when you watch Hillary thrive and what God's given her and created in her and threw her mama bear apologetics or ministry.
What does it do you. When my garden flourishes are considered an honor to Gardner. I look at what Hillary does.
And I'm reminded of one of these lessons within the Henry black be experiencing God series that I did back in high school, find where God is working and join him there. I've tried to do different kinds of ministry things that you know, writing and speaking debates, preaching, teaching, all sorts of different things and you know God's bless that, but nothing like what I've seen here. Nothing like what I see with mama bear and there's really me.
She's not just doing something that she enjoys she's addressing a very thirsty ground with life-giving water shares a lot of women out there who felt marginalized in the whole apologetics community and thus disempowered when it comes to training up their kids, but when she says mama bear apologetics. It's like a light goes off to get it to recognize all I'm defending the faith by defending my family and you don't have to revert to football and military analogies all the time is stereotypically masculine framing for it all to do apologetics.
You can do apologetics in a deeply feminine way because there's nothing so feminine and yet fierce as a mama bear protecting her cubs. That's not a compromise with them and that's an exercise of it and she's been able to to develop that concept and to unleash it in the world and I think part of it's because I can be by her side and she can she do when an idea, but we can we can interact over the stuff and she's not much more empowered because of that. It reminds me of when we were with Howard Hendricks wife, Jeannie, Prof., we are like distinct personality is little more quiet and semi-said he like to be married to Howard when he still bacon you ever feel lost and you ever feel forgotten or you feel like you've lost your voice and she was tedious, and cool and just girls girls I know something about Howard. Nobody knows you know were all like casinos. Howard would be nothing without me like you're saying it's the same thing like the wind. This ministry would not have gone anywhere without John so first I thought, well, it'll be a blog and maybe we'll do some podcasts I did not feel confident enough to even post anything because I thought I put someone someone to poke a hole in the logic and say we haven't thought about this but knowing that John had the background he has.
I would run everything I wrote by him and thought I would have original thoughts.
I thought well you my guess my goal is to be to present the same things that everybody else is presenting.
But just presenting it.
You know, for moms but podcast is like at the top doing so well at the meeting considering that we didn't record for like at all last year that the Lord is working in this.
Having John be old to be a second set of eyes. Their educated set of eyes knowing that if I'm saying something stupid that someone else is already set in some 13th century philosopher already addressed this till now about it and so I would run it by him and put on there but he got to the point where I realized I was saying things that he hadn't heard anyone else say for the first time I thought maybe I do have original thoughts in the way that I piece together information is just different than the way other people have which you know right there.
How maybe I've had a disconnect. Maybe with some of my peers because it is a different way but funny thing is speaking of being heard. You've got a unique voice, and I don't know that you realized early on that what you offered was different from what so yeah I don't think I did practical apologetics and I've read a lot of apologetics of interact with a lot of apologists have been events in the green room talking with folks were coming up next so I got to interact with the stuff and for the most part few exceptions for the most part they weren't doing practical apologetic work equipping laypeople normal people who don't have advanced degrees. They are naturally equipping them to do this with folks who are also educated they were for the most part saying here some of the arguments are some of the evidence will go do with it what you will but there wasn't that Lehman's learner that's communicating how to apply the stuff John taught to the husband whose wife has told over and over. You hear me you see me I'm not a priority to you. How would you encourage him to fail and be there for his wife, David and Wilson with Hillary Morgenthaler and Don Ferrer on family life today you hear John's response in just a second. The first listener at family life today. You have heard many stories of how God can do amazing work even in the toughest marriages and the amazing thing is that God chooses to use people just like you to help one way you can make an impact for more marriages and families is by financially partnering with family life today all this week is our thanks for your partnership. We want to send you a copy of Hillary Ferrer's book is our thanks. It's called mama bear apologetics and you can get your copy when you give this firstname.lastname@example.org or you can call us with your donation at 800-3583 29, 800 F peasant family L as in life and in the word today. Right now, back to David Anne's conversation with Hillary and John fair and how a husband can engage and be there for his wife is not a bad idea to everyone small just say I see you in Paul's literally consciously see her where she told her one or two things in your own words that she just told you communicating that you heard her and then identify one or two things that are valuable about her to tell you guys just guy does that husband shall probably cry and is tearing up sooner to do that now. You now ask for it because I think that's good. Literally will say told me 10 different ways that you love me if I'm particularly insecure day. I'll ask you don't like let me in 10 different ways or you know why. What are some things what this is why you're glad that you married me and you know, of course I'll get back to him if he asked, but a lot of times honestly is just me asking for you and so he will sit there and he will think and you won't just rattle off some stupid he will really sit there and think what the new way that I can say this is really rare you say days.
I'm thinking that I don't know you know better because you work with so many women she has a heard women's night once a month. Of Michigan sells out in five minutes and always one that I was at the last one playing guitar in the band in the band never left the sage friend. We just did music through the whole night and so I got to sit there in a room full of women and listen and I was shocked. I didn't hear this. I did hear women saying I've been a feel seen and heard. I heard the opposite, and they were lamenting as much is going. Here's my story and the story was a lot of guys like me and others that this are so focused on themselves and their life. They just put their woman and her daughter or their mom to decide that you're not as important as me.
They don't realize they're doing it.
I did it for a while, but this is listen to you and refreshing to think while this is rare should be rare that I'm hoping women are listening are going to think I am seen first of all, by God, he is sated. That's the theme of our nights together with women is URC you are hurt by the God of the universe he created you that knows you that knows every cell in your body, and he celebrates you even listening to David and Wilson with Hillary Morgenthaler and her husband John on family life. Hillary's book is called mama bear apologetics empowering your kids to challenge cultural lives. You can get your copy when you give this email@example.com miscarriage is often seen as something women suffer from but what about the met Eric Shoemaker will be joining David and Wilson next week to address just that I hope you have a great weekend and get the worship at your local church on behalf of David and Wilson. I'm shall be added back next time for another edition of family life today is of family life crew ministry helping you pursue the relationships that matter most