Elyse Fitzpatrick: Why Gender is More and Less than You Thought

Jesus has called us together to fulfill this great commission and he's called us in a marriage to do that through our marriage. How do we display the glory of Jesus Christ crucified and risen together as partners in this and I mimicked kill anything in me that gets in the way of that sacrifice any dream any ambition for the sake of her to be able to be unified with me so that we can flourish together in God's purposes. Welcome to family life – where we might help you pursue the relationships that matter most and will send Dave Wilson and you can find us@familylifetoa.com or on our family life. This is family life today so we had this interesting experience happen one night at like three in the morning and I are upstairs in her bedroom asleep and wake because the TV was blaring so loud downstairs at 3M never kids live in our home anymore and so I hear the TV and thinking how petite and so I think TV I said did you know I may turn it off. I have no idea why the present. Morning said and done what you said you know you have a way. She said that I might somebody's in our house yet and turn on the TV so we literally looked in July.

Will you do it my goal and she's like I'm not going and we literally dialed 911. I've never done this in my life because I knew the front shutters are opened so I literally get the police on her like somebody's in our house downstairs.

The TVs we don't know what's going on. Would you come and I can't welcome you could look to the front window you by Tbilisi so we lay there and waited really picture it off so then filing the you can see some lights out in our cul-de-sac. The police called to go hey you can come down. There's nobody in there let us in the front door so we go to down to this day we don't know what happened to me just click on blurring the placement that this happens all the time told a story and yet it's usually a person that is been drinking too much and how long home and turn on TV right here like why in the world you just tell us the story because the question is, should David gone down, why is it the man that always has to be the protector when a transaction stronger and fell like I need and want you to go down.

It is a fun way to get into a question about male and female Dr. followers lead headship submission in marriage and family and so were a marriage and family ministry and we need to talk about how do you understand male and female husband-wife headship submission in marriage and so we brought Eric Shoemaker and Elise Fitzpatrick in the studio again today a family life to help us deal with this question. So, welcome back guys.

Thanks to life.

You just laughing at our crazy life just all we've had several times that I've had to go downstairs so you going to get. That's it.

That's the question I'm stronger than physically strong and I tell you and not saying that it didn't go down with my shotgun but I went down we go down at least you know it when I watched like scary suspense things on TV and the person is going downstairs to see what the noise is I'm always screaming when I go no probably not what you want your husband to well yeah I don't want to go. Somebody's got that's interesting you know we look at that role of men and women as protectors.

But you know what was it. What's interesting to me as I don't know if you guys watch super hero movie course and a lot of all movie yes all the Marvel universe.

Yeah, and in Black Panther, you have the dorm allies J. Who are those women who are the protector of the king and I love that picture of the dorm allies J there like warrior women because I think that comes closer to actually what those words razor negative mean you no helper suitable for, or standing in front of I think that comes closer to the meaning of what it is to be a woman then the fainting Victorian woman who passes out at the sight of blood and couldn't protect at all. So unite. I just wanted maybe throw that in you. I think that Eve's role the woman's role is just as much a role of courage, I mean women give birth, so I that as there are A's or however you say it's noted as with God is being a God of power in the military were just slow and that's what I want to go to guys because you wrote a book of Jesus and gender living as sisters and brothers in Christ are previously roadworthy. So you really it's become a passion and really something you've been able to bring to the church and the community Christ to help us understand this. So as you think about where we start a mantis of a crazy idea.

Think men should go downstairs. That wasn't the I did the ideas how do we view men and women how we view husbands and wives and how do you take what you just said Elise. The understanding what God originally created the creation mandate, even for marriage into the perspective in a home. What does that look like help us really got me. That is a major question we need to understand, and I think I just like to add to what we've been talking about all through the Old Testament we see women who are courageous and strong and they take risks so you think about Taymor, who has a cowardly and selfish father-in-law who won't provide a son for this widow to raise up children for her late husband. She dresses up like a prostitute's and put yourself at great risk in order to be faithful to her husband think what Ruth and she goes out to a field as a Moabite woman in Bethlehem and she goes to the threshing floor to basically propose marriage. These are strong women who take big risks with their own lives for the sake of serving others and so you know in her first episode we talked about the importance of Philippians 2 having the mind of Christ and how we treat one another and cooperate with one another as men and women and so as we get to Ephesians take Ephesians 5 this passage on men and women and I might read. I got here open in front of me but you know Paul's instructions to the husbands or love your wives, just as Christ loved the church and gave himself for her to make her holy, cleansing her with the washing of water by the word and he goes on to say that he won't, Christ works to make the church beautiful and the same way, husbands need to love their wives as their own bodies because there one flash their unified like Genesis 2 points us to and so really there the mindset of the husband should be the mindset of Christ you're willing to take risk you're willing to sacrifice yourself, your ambitions, your comfort, your safety for the sake of being one flesh with her and to see her flourish. As Christ sacrificed himself for our flourishing in his kingdom, and then you look at the instructions to wives, wives, submit to your own husbands, as to the Lord because the husband is the head of the wife as Christ is the head of the church.

Paul doesn't define what headship means there he illustrates it in what we just talked about how husbands are supposed to live. That's what headship is. If it's anything it is sacrificing yourself for her good so what's he calling the woman to do here and we get into the book about the meaning of submits and like always pointed out earlier this free agency there this instructions given to wives not to husbands. That doesn't say make your wives submit a causal the wife to this, but the way a wife submits is as the church is submitting to Christ and there's a whole lot we could say there about how we submit to Christ because we all know we have a ton of freedom and our submission to Christ.

He might tell us to dress modestly, but he doesn't tell us what shirt to wear and what pans to put on it gives us general commands and then we carry them out according to who we are but what is the aim of the church, submitting to Jesus the church like Paul commands in Philippians 2 is to have the mind of Christ. The church is the body of Christ. The church is supposed to look like Jesus and for the wife to submit herself to the husband means she liked him is to lay aside her comfort her ambitions sacrifice herself to be unified with him and cooperate with him in this common goal that's been given which is to glorify God and display his glory and to fulfill the great commission. So what Paul is calling both the husband and the wife two is very very similar. The command essentially is to both of them be like Jesus in how you relate to each other and yet you know, obviously in a church and in Christian marriages. We have this picture of headship, submission, looking much different than that. You know like the head is Simon control you. I have the power. Submit means you come under my authority and power is that a bad understanding I think so because that I don't think that reflects the relationship between Christ and the church. You know, on the night when he dressed himself like a slave and washed his disciples, feeds, and then told them to live the same way with each other. He says no longer do I call you slaves. I call you friends and I think if our relationship is husbands and wives takes on this characteristic of the one who gives the command of the one who obeys. That is a picture friendship and Jesus is our Lord. Of course he's God and that's what's unique about him. You know, as are as her bridegroom, but he said you know I did not come to be served. I came to serve and give my life as a ransom for many. The first thing he is in the first thing we are yet he is a servant like to come to Jesus and to submit to him the first thing it means is we must be willing to be served by him before we ever start serving him, at least, what is that look like in your home. Have you ever done it in an unhealthy way.

Yes, Phil and I have been married for 47 years. And yes, I think that there were times when I would say I can't have any kind of opinion about anything that would be different than failed because that's what it means to be a submissive wife and of course there have been because I have you know a voice there have been lots of times when I would say oh yeah but I'm you know I'm the one who needs to be listened to here in an ungodly way. I mean, for as many years as we have been married there. Spend sin everywhere and in my heart every Mary task because were two sinners living together and so for me it's really come to a place where I have to say, what do you think what do you want to fill and a lot of times Phyllis is sort of really easy going guy and so he'll just say whatever you want to do is fine with me and then I used to always be frustrated by that. It's like oh no, you're supposed to tell me if you like it was passive like it was passive, but you know it's funny now that I really 50 years later, gotten to understand and know, Phil, Phyllis, just an easy going person that's Dave that he really just really doesn't care and I used to think well that's you know I'm supposed to have somebody who tells me I became very uncomfortable with that now. So the Lord is given me specific gifts the Lord's given fill specific gifts and his easy-going this is been a gift to me over the years, but then I always I want to be the sort of person that is always saying to Phil, tell me what you think. What do you think because it's easy for me to have an opinion and then Phil is very easy going, so he would not necessarily give his opinion unless I said I want to hear it, but for us. I think that that's the thing that's been really helpful for me personally, as we've worked through. You know what are the roles of women where the roles within is it's not cookie-cutter it's not like a one-size-fits-all sort of thing. Phil and I have different gifts. Eric and Jenny have different gifts you guys obviously are differently gifted.

I don't need to look like someone else's perspective of what a Christian marriage should be.

We, Phil and I have lived together in a unity that has come about because we know were differently gifted and we live in the light of that crosshatching listening to you today talk about this. I've had visions of in my mind what look like before, but I had a new one today from you.

You guys, which was headship and submission is a question of who gets to be like Jesus. The most I don't know right if that's what you said but it's like okay so Jesus is the head of the church. What did that look like well that look like, surveying, and given his life away for the church, Jesus has to submit to the father.

What's that look like obeying the father's will and putting his own will away and accepting God's will. So you just gave me a vision. I don't know if it is the year when like I want to be Jesus, I would be just so that means I will lay down my life to serve her as my wife.

She still laid out or becomes this mutual loss flourishing together yet you know you right in there that the husband's the first to die with that look like. I think what that looks like is Peter tells husbands to live with their wives and understanding way and calls them the weaker and I think that primarily refers to physical strength and what he's saying is is do not exploit your physical strength to benefit you at the cost of your life, and that again is Philippians 2 though he has the phones of God. He doesn't exploit that he becomes a servant, and I think the man is constantly remembering that Jesus has called us together to fulfill this great commission and he's called us in a marriage to do that through our marriage.

This marriage isn't about. I have a vision of me one day being a CEO or no star athletes or whatever it is and she needs to agree with fats and you know, put herself behind my career and make that successful know what were called to cooperate in is Christ purposes of fulfilling this great commission.

So he's not thinking about himself. He's thinking about how do we display the glory of Jesus Christ crucified and risen together as partners in this and I'm in a kill anything in me that gets in the way of that. And I must sacrifice any dream any ambition for the sake of her to be able to be unified with me so that we can flourish together in God's purposes. I love what you guys are saying and it reminds me of Kristi McClellan who is professor at a university. She was talking one time about being in Israel, and she did a lot of Hebrew teaching and cultural learning over there and she taught to a rabbi that was in the 70s and she said he had this long gray beard, and she was wrestling with these words as their Acer can ago and she said what would you say those words meaning Hebrew to be a helper suitable. And he said all it's easy. He said the woman was created to contend with Adam and she said what you mean he goes because I knew there was an enemy in the garden, and it would take the two of them together to defeat the enemy contending with one another side-by-side and I think so often we can get lost and we get into these details will ship CB hearing should I be there and I think the truth is like let's contend together with one another side-by-side in this battle this morning around us because we need one another set of fighting one another. Let's battle to get a man I love what your definition and your in Jesus engender a few member writing this, but uses beautiful term. I'm guessing its original Eucharistic.

Yes.

Well, maybe I'll original to us. It's a Christ centered man, woman, and in this case, Christ centered marriage and I love your definition imitating Christ involuntary humility, but you just been discussing and mutual flourishing as they recognize one another's value and pursue unity with one another. This is beautiful picture of what we've been talking about, there's headship their submission.

There's imitating Christ.

There is mutual humility for flourishing, but it's in you citizens that you said many times it's for extending the kingdom of God to the world.

That's the Best Way, God designed it to happen in a marriage of my right. If I think so and you know I'm just thinking back to our opening talking about who should go down stairs and I reminded of how Christ cooperates with the church in the church cooperates with Christ. Now granted, he had this key role in he's the one who died for our sins and rose from the dead, but then immediately he is calling us into cooperation with him to fulfill the great commission take the gospel to the ends of the earth does Jesus ever send his bride down the stairs into a dangerous situation.

Absolutely the church is being persecuted even today, and it always has been and he sends his bride into dangerous places to do risky things.

He doesn't shelter her in this safe place.

He gives her strength. He gives her encouragement he goes with her, but he sends her into these dangerous and risky things because she's a church that is were were being conformed into the image of Christ. He is the lion of Judah who when you see him in Revelation looks like a lamb that's been slain, so you just answered a question go together and check on that go together or stronger. One of the things I've learned in my walk with God is that God doesn't promise a life of comfort and ease. In fact, he promises a life of trials, but he also promises that he'll be with me in those trials that he'll be alongside of me in the difficult circumstances. What a great reminder from Elise Fitzpatrick and Eric Shoemaker about the fact that Jesus is bride is not to live a life without danger, but it is going to live a life present with the risen Messiah.

Elise and Eric have written a book called Jesus engender living as sisters and brothers in Christ. You can go to our website. Family life to a.com to order a copy of Jesus engender. Or you could pick up the phone and call us at 1-800-358-6329 that's one 800 F's and family L as in life and in the word today to request your copy.

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The ordinary stuff of life. How can you have that kind of God centered focus on all that's happening in your marriage and your family. Courtney rising is going to join David and to talk about just that. We hope you can join us as well on behalf of David and Wilson. I'm Shelby Abbott will see that next time for another edition of family life to day family like today's a production of family accrue ministry helping you pursue the relationships that matter most