Elyse Fitzpatrick: Gender and the Bible

Sometimes women are treated like throw pillows, you know they're they're nice but they're not necessary and it's pretty to have around you search anything easy have one.

If you have a but what God is saying in Genesis 2 is this cannot be that the man would be alone and so that means she's necessary welcome to family life today where we want to help you pursue the relationship that matter most and will send Dave Wilson and you can find us@familylifetoa.com or on our family life.

This is family life today so when we started speaking for the family life. We can remember marriage getaways.

I was young I had only been married 10 years back I started looking at the material that we were to teach and what I was looking at was Genesis 2 and I was at the point where it said, and God made a helper suitable for Adam and I remember stopping there now.

You remember I wasn't raised in the church and so I looked at that.

I thought I have to be helper where's my help helper and so I was kind of like okay you know you serve her to start discussing play nine and so then I think I'm just gonna look up the word helper in the dictionary. I'm not looking up Hebrew. I'm just looking to see what helper it says the dictionary says a gopher person does the dirty one important tells them what to do and I throw my hands up in years like teach his role as this, but I'm so due and so that with the beginning of my wrestling and my struggling in my yearning to know what does God have for us as women and obviously you know you're looking to dictionary.

It was the wasn't even close to what that word actually God you know wrote that down so beginning of a journey. Most women I think so many of us are wondering what is our role as God expect and want and what does he call us and so I think today's can be a great day.

There is a question that's critically important for us understand in the community of Christ and the church.

It's this question male and female man, woman, husband, wife, father, mother and I tell you what we have in the studio. Eric and Elise Fitzpatrick Eric Shoemaker in the studio welcome for love today. Thank you.

Thank you.

You sit over there. I mean, I know you know we have a unique pairing of you know, Eric, your pastor in Iowa police your prolific author who's written a few more books and Eric what are you about 25 yes recess 24.

What's he doing more than one obviously written a lot of books married, kids, never podcasts that we actually had the privilege to be called worthy and that was a book that you two did together. We had you and family today. A couple years ago talking about worthy, which is a book about women being worthy tells you in on family life.

Today many times so we're excited to have you guys back in your book Jesus engender. The subtitle is living as sisters and brothers in Christ, so this is a big topic and I would start right here. Wow, how did you two end up connecting and talking about the worthiness of women. Well it all started with Twitter were all good things to start a Twitter I'd been in this season of listening to stories of people who have been marginalized or abused stories that for a large part of my life I would've just blown off and not listen to and so as the need to movement started, I decided I want to listen to women and hear about what they're experiencing and then as it moved into church to I definitely wanted to listen. So I wrote the string of tweets that were the women in the Bible who were the first human beings to do certain things and an organization asked me to turn it into an article which I did and Elise saw both and invited me to be on her family front porch of the fences podcasts which was a lot of fun and she said you should turn this into a book and I knew no one knew who I was and wouldn't publish me so I said, you should write it with me and a few months later we were working together on outline. Yeah, I was kind of in the same place he was. Not that I needed to all of a sudden discover the value of women but I think that I was listening more carefully to women's stories to marginalize people stories and so I was already primed to want to do something about that topic and then when I saw that Eric was doing those that series of tweets which really became the foundation for the book that we wrote.

I thought of this is really great. This is something I've wanted to speak into. So that's the genesis of worthy have been written through your your book Jesus engender for a week now and then, last night was sit down the prepare for this day and I'm thinking that's so interesting that God is using Erica he and Alisa she to elevate all the she's in the world to understand the worthiness that again I don't a while last night.

Those were the words again without Erica thought he thought Elise I thought she and I thought of all the women as she to know and so everyone is well you know I get the song in my head and I feel I got sort gave me one for you to so he wrote you a song I know and he seems to do this when Eric you lead worship and you write music that I've actually heard that you write parities in this is, I thought I thought that's what this is going to be married either, and it will know so after it was one you were family life will decide to even keep this in the broadcast. So this is like an audition because I don't really say, but your words you will just again last night, sit there. This is looking to be in is not funny at being more serious because I think what you're doing is powerfully elevating the dignity of women, so the sooner what happened.

Eric and Lisa have been called by God and she bring in dignity to she they really God's for she they free all she to feel were see you so full you get that for we do. As I sat there with my guitar last night. I thought I'm going fun like call Eric the woman guy, but I felt like you two are like a gift church, especially for the she's the women of the world that often have felt devalued and lost her dignity in the body of Christ so long about women will really draw close because it's such a confusing time. We've heard so many different things and I think it's good to know biblically what does God say about us here saying because of what Christ is downright clear sons and daughters of the clear will really help us understand where we start. We start start talk about male and female from God's perspective and I love what you've done as you said we need to bring the gospel to this conversation and I am thinking I'm I'm guessing right you feel like that's sort of been missing you very much, so first of all Dave, thank you, thank you for that encouragement. It means a lot welcome. I think that in the discussions of gender and what roles women should play. Men should play. It seems to me that the topic that's been missing is the gospel, and in particular the incarnation.

So when you start at Genesis, which is fine talking about how men and women should relate that's fine.

But then if you start at Genesis and then don't remember. Philippians 2 you're going to miss something.

So I'd like to read just a short pallet Philippians 25 and I'll just read 539 adopt the same attitude as that of Christ Jesus. There is the imperative, there's the command we are to have this attitude and what we wanted to do in Jesus engender was say we want to bring this attitude into our relationships as sisters and brothers so what's the attitude who existing in the form of God did not consider equality with God as something to be exploited.

Christ had preeminent authority that perhaps I have some sort of authority or Eric you have some sort of authority. I don't want to exploit that authority.

So who existing in the form of God did not consider equality with God as something to be exploited. Instead, he emptied himself by assuming the form of a servant, taking on the likeness of humanity, and when he had come as a man, the fullness of God becoming a husband can, he humbled himself by becoming obedient to the point of death, even death on the cross. So what we wanted to do was say okay let's talk about relationships between men and women. But let's base our discussion on what should happen on how I should think about Eric as my brother how I should think about you as my sister.

Let's start that conversation with this. I'm going to empty myself and take on the attitude of a servant. That's what the gospel has to say. I think to gender related instead of that, what is it look like what EC well what it looks like is people staking out territory on both sides. Yeah, and that's I think one of the things that we wanted to say in this book was were not staking out territory on either side. So if you're very very conservative, or if you're more progressive were not saying hey were with you what were saying is if you're asking the question who gets to be in charge wherever you happen to be asking that question from you've missed the point because Jesus over and over and over again to the disciples kept saying to them.

It's not about who gets to be the best or who gets to be the highest or who gets to be the ruler or you want to be called the benefactor know actually if you follow me what you're going to do is you can lay down your life and you're going to give it up for the lives of others, and that's got to be the rubric that informs how I think about my relationship with men and women with brothers and sisters know and we think the reason that's important is that passage she just read from Philippians 2 is Paul's command to both men and women have this mind.

The mind of Christ. There's not a female mind of Christ and a male mind of Christ.

There's one mind of Christ for both both men and women are being conformed into the image of Jesus, and in fact the author of Hebrews says that he had to be made like his brothers and sisters in every respect, so that he could be a merciful high priest and it's not that women go to some different source for model of who they're supposed to be.

Jesus is the perfect human being and so both men and women can look to him to learn how to live and when you look through Paul's epistles. There's a few places where he speaks to fathers to husbands to wives, but for the most part. His letters are full of commands about what it means to be sanctified and these are not given to us as male traits and female traits that are given to us as traits of what Christ is like and there's not a female way to put on Christ in a male way to put on Christ were called to put on Christ.

And so we we want to start not with Genesis. Though we said you know that's a fine place to start. You read a book from beginning to end. But you understand the book by reading it from the end back to the beginning because once you reach the end, you know what it's about and how you interpret everything through that light in Christ is the end of all things, and so we wanted to start with him in order to understand men and women and not only that, you know the gospel the message of Jesus Christ who doesn't exploit his deity who takes on the form of a slave lives a perfect life on our behalf dies as our substitute under the wrath of God. He serves us and is raised from the dead, so that he can justify us and raise us from the dead from beginning to end. Jesus is a servants that gospel that message is the power of God for salvation that message is the only thing that has the power to transform us as men and women to be people who are like Christ and for not starting with the power of God for salvation what's going to come of it. I think that's a really good place to start because I'm just thinking back in my younger years. I'm kind of a strong woman more of a leader. She understand that this is one of things I love about my mom was an amazing wife, but if I had to categorize her growing up I would've said my mom is a doormat in my advantage of that and so growing up, I thought I will never beat that. Then I gave my life to Jesus and I'm faced with this decision.

What will like and I like this because I am willing to lay my life down as a woman knowing that Jesus has done and that Jesus is, and can ask anything of me that wouldn't be good for me as a woman listening. Have you write down your life and saying Jesus, I'm willing to give you everything and I'm willing to follow you, and I think is a woman where if you don't know the word that can be scary because all of these pictures come in your head of what it means to be a woman of God in my and my someone I can use my gifts of leadership to do. I have a voice, but I like where he started. One of the things that I love about what you just said and is not. I want to make a decision to lay down my life and one of the things that I think is really been missing in some ways is the understanding that as women we have agency to freely lay down our lives and what that means is not that I become a doormat. What that means this is that I am doing that from a position of strength.

So from a position of strength. And then I say, because Christ is done this for me. I am now free to give my life away so as a woman van you know you talked about being a helper and that definition those words in Genesis about being a helper. Those are not weak words. Those are powerful, almost militaristic word word as are you guys write about that explain what that means basically means a strong ally someone who comes alongside you to assist you in an important assignment.

Most of the time it's used of God in his relationship to Israel. God is the helper of his people and so we dare not define that word to mean subservient week optional. You know like one reference says sometimes women are treated like throw pillows, you know there are nice but they're not necessary as there pretty to have around church. If you have one. If you have but what God is saying in Genesis 2 is this is really bad. That's what that not good means there yeah this cannot be that the man would be alone and so that means she's necessary and what we see in Genesis as God creates the woman from Adam's side presents her to him.

His first exclamation is this is bone of my bone and flesh of my flesh. He been present in animals before there nothing flashy what he's saying there is not. This is someone different than me. He saying this person is the same as me. She has the same nature as me and then Moses adds. This is the reason that a man leave his father and mother and cling to bond with his wife and they will be one flesh.

And it's interesting because in in the culture of that day. It wasn't the man who left his family. The woman left her family came to be part of his, and I think we get a glimpse the gospel right there that this man is going to be willing to leave his family the protection and security of a family to pursue unity with his wife for the sake of cooperating together in this creation mandate that God has given them and that's what ought to look like today that as brothers and sisters or husbands and wives. We ought to be willing to sacrifice for the sake of unity that's even what Paul says to husbands late on your lives because she's your flesh, and we want to sacrifice for the sake of being unified as brothers and sisters to cooperate together in fulfilling the great commission of Christ tell you I want to get into the conversation about marriage and next we have time right now but just listening to you too.

And even in as a husband and as a man I have a vision in my mind of women totally different.

Honestly, I think I already had this vision, I understood as are of study that you note from the journey and talked about from when we thought it would just helper and help meeting to that equal partner and confidant. There's a part of me that just I saw a vision of women being so valuable and worthy that I don't ever want to look at, and any you said throw pillow like oh my goodness that has been so often what we done and you have just given us God's vision for men and women from flipping Sue what a perfect place to start. Society starts give it all away, surrender, and had he done. Have I done that because it's something that we don't just a one time credits in the obedience of doing it over and over Jesus. I lay down my life for you today and had me wanting the topic of gender can often make us feel a little bit confused, or even sometimes a little bit scared to engage in the conversation, but when we look to Jesus himself, the suffering servant gentle and lowly example of what it means to lay down your life and give it to others. Things start to become very very clear. David and Wilson have been talking today with Elise Fitzpatrick and Eric Shoemaker. They written a book called Jesus and gender living as sisters and brothers in Christ by becoming more like Jesus and coming to Jesus. Women and men can find rest. Many women are allies in God's mission. You could find Jesus and gender in our family life resource Center by adding to our website.

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Tomorrow, David and Wilson are going to be continuing their conversation with Elise Fitzpatrick and Eric Shoemaker about readjusting our mindset when it comes to men and women centered around specifically God's great commission is coming up tomorrow. We hope you can join us on behalf of David and Wilson. I'm Shelby Abbott will see back next time for another edition of family life to family life to days of production of family accrue ministry helping you pursue the relationships that matter most