A Re-fresh

The following program is a family life today class those making decisions that were stupid foolish you know that I wasn't a follower of Christ wasn't a believer got involved in a real relationship on a healthy relationship at work, which led to infidelity which led to Jodi walking in the next thing you know that was you know, our relationship was over and I just bought into a lot of things that I think a lot of people still do today can damage the greatest treasure that you welcome to family life today where we want to help you pursue the relationships that matter most and will Dave Wilson and you can find his family life today.com or on our family life Family life today was fun to have a friends who drop by to be on family life today and you've known this couple for how long you think.

And there are friends that I know each other like there is no real come right then and find that the guys are talking about are rotted Jodi's to join us on family life today welcome guests great Rod and Jodi live in the western suburbs of Chicago where Ron is the pastor at High Point church a multisite church out in the western burbs and this app is a been married since 1989 have a three column all adult children meant yes yeah three children to married and one who is in college yes and your own story I asked you when did you get married in and you said all got married maybe nine but we don't count the first year. Why is that sometimes the stories this it was crash and burn for us and so first year marriage wasn't just difficult for us. We literally had to crash and burn to look up. So Jodi and I both thought, you know, grew up in non-Christian homes are basis for marriage was good, ethical behavior, we saw our parents had a great marriages but they weren't faith-based at all in that kind of situation and for us. We had known each other for years and we went to the same high school all that kind of stuff. But you know you number one was it was a trial what you remember about the first year marriage first about tech is allowed to even get into the same state. So yeah, we've known each other since we are kids we met in technically in junior high when I borrowed some $0.20 from the Guyana and paying them back.

The rest might take the money costly phone call of your left. Get in eighth grade. She was seventh grade and now you know we found it was good anyhow so we dated through high school much and then went to different colleges. Dated most the way through college.

So we had dated probably 8 to 10 years before we got married so you know each other that we very well with what we had gone through China will get into little bit. The reality of it is. We had a really deep friendship and I think that was the thing that really enabled us to continue to move forward even to this day, so I've got my best friend here 8+ years of dating, what was that often on dating or was it were pretty much together. The whole time we take this from Bob basketball season basically was this my head can fit through the door and so I would be stupid and then Jodi would break up with me and then I'd come. You know what garage she was crawling back crawling back attract houses like a basketball in the winter and Jodi kept taking them back saying something like he was deftly a diamond in a row now say that that now we yeah it was kind of on again off again. So in that respect. I guess that should have been such a surprise. At that first year was rough because of all that going back and forth as you get married but you both had careers that you took off on a pretty fast pace. I think that's one of the things that led to the breakdown even for those listening today or maybe couples that where your long distance relationship is one thing but then for us and Jodi scored the big job coming out of school, the better opportunity.

Let's just be honest and say that and so I was following her, which was a shot to the ego coming in a lot of respects so I was in the business world in Cleveland.

Jodi was working out of a company from Michigan actually and she was in getting trained in Connecticut and then we finally made her way to Chicago the first year and what it was probably her five months into our marriage before we were even in the same city while and then it took six months now, not even to crash and burn as rent described we gotten very good at the weekend relationship and even in college, you know, that was kind of we, lost track of what it was like to dated day, five months what happened. Besides being a part you not just jump right in. I mean the reality that as I was making decisions that that that were stupid foolish as we set I wasn't a follower of Christ wasn't a believer got involved in a real relationship, an unhealthy relationship at work, which led to infidelity which led to Jodi walking in when she was supposed to be gone on a business trip and you know I was doing some stupid and she came in and discovered this in the next thing you know, that was it like, you know, our relationship was over and that was the crisis that was the rock bottom. As I said I wasn't going to church wasn't built on biblical foundation, you know, doing things that were live in a college behavior and lifestyle, and I just bought into a lot of things that I think I'm a lot of people still do today can damage and really rock the greatest treasure that you Jodi how hard with that.

Well you know it's one of those things.

It's kind of indicative of my contribution to our marriage failing. Ron had been out of town and he was just getting back that night and of course I was leaving you now to go on a business.now who does that right where when I first year marriage supposed me this honeymoon in my career and my job was. I guess I was a very driven person, but that's how I got the job and that's what I thought it was supposed to be doing and that's how I did well and everything else up at that point in college and everything else but just no regard for the concept of you know even just being there to greet him after being gone for a while so it turns out I just didn't.

I was working on a presentation and it took me longer than I thought a lot surprise him and I'll Justine, I'll stay tonight not leave really early in the morning instead of to be driving to Michigan and so the surprise unfortunately was on me, so I walked in and unite, thankfully, you know, I just saw I saw wineglasses and things that took me a while to even put together what was going on so that was kind of how that night went down and so what did you just leave did you get yeah I could hardly speak and I just remember thinking shouldn't go to jail for this relief.

There was this feeling of like they're allowed to just kind go to bed tonight and be fine and I'm so he supposed to stay here with me and it was just so confusing. I just remember yeah it was not not a good night it all and I think he took the gal away and then I remember to scan asleep in the living room floor now is ads that was we really have any family around us now, and it was a hard thing, but in hindsight I can say was probably in a way a good thing because it did leave me nowhere, but to look to God and think it was over. Yeah, I really did think like a long guess my next step is to just get a divorce. You know, that's just what I thought because I remember you you think about things and because liking our dating history meet had some things that I guess I should amend that surprise that this could happen, but I had always said you know that's the one thing I would not put up with.

And boy here was it was right in front of me. Ron was your involvement with somebody else because of dissatisfaction in your early marriage or were you just do not have guardrails yet will I think it was. I think it's both of those things and you know certainly there was no guard rails and you know, as I said I was making decisions like I had been made in the past and living the life you know with doing things and drinking things and get to the place where you know the boundaries weren't there at all. You know, Jodi was working and doing things and move along the career path and I I thought that that was going to bring me satisfaction that was gonna bring the happiness that was what was missing and dumb you don't think a lot of people fall into these kinds of traps but the reality of it is. Jodi had prayed a month will be days before you days before she had prayed to God and we were Christians. Should we were praying people and she prayed, got if you show me what's wrong I'll do my part to fix it.

She had this shooter feeling it was before. I want to say it might've been the evening prior while and I was not really a praying. I only prayed when I was in deep trouble. But maybe I was sensing this, I sensing something was wrong was wrong. Something was wrong.

That is amazing here in the US, God to show you and you walk in.

Yeah. And so he had my full attention. You know, at that point I can member just sitting there looking up and saying okay what you want.

You know I got there was a that fear of God really kicked in around what were you thinking we've heard the other side now just been caught.

Well, you know, Dave. I think part of this to Stephen to come out today, just it's been so long ago, but the reality of it is the emotions to admit your deepest darkest sinful past and the decisions and choices that you make. I was pretty raw and I was pretty foolish and I you know I didn't know what to do.

I didn't know where to go. I was lonely. I thought I could do these things and I didn't want to do this. This is my best friend. This is the relationship that I cared about and what I did was I threw away like it was a piece of trash, garbage, and you know to this day that's really really difficult. We had built a relationship.

We built a friendship. I didn't want to hurt her, but I was so self-centered, you know, so doing what things of what seemed right and best for me that I got off the rails pretty pretty fast what you remember about your first conversation together after this happened, well, I had contacted my sister that night. I think just to say hey what I do is like I knew I could trust her.

And she's the one actually said. She said well yeah that's a really big decision getting divorce is not just something you do and she said I think you should get counseling first and then she said, but make sure it's Christian counseling and I never even her saying that when a been a normal thing for us to say but it didn't even matter. I was just so desperate that I was just like I knew I could trust her.

I knew she would always have my best interests at heart and she was telling me I need to get Michael where you get that and I remember her saying all that's right you guys don't go to church and I said no and I some others want to cross the street so I literally the next morning got all dressed up and waited for the cars to be leaving the church parking lot say no intention of going to church but I was going to go there and try to find out about where I would get this Christian counseling and so the next conversation.

I really remember after I showed up at this church, and a complete stranger.

Just a sweet woman who I thought was just kinda cleaning up at the church. The pastor's office was empty, and she's the one that told me to go to to a marriage ministry that was in town is at another church which is kind of interesting on their church didn't have that but she had the foresight to say to get me to where I needed to be to get the help I needed and she told me go to this church. Go to this workshop and the most important thing she said was, but don't go there with Your heart go there with your whole heart and those words I know are directly from God because it would come back to me. Well, as I listened and I yeah and so I plan to go to this thing and somehow the conversation came up and Ron wanted to go also and I was like well okay I didn't really know.

Sure, whatever you leave repentant like sorry for what I mean.

The sorry was there. I don't know if you know what this was, you know. As far as you think I was just broken what I did was wrong.

I knew what I did wasn't right that I trip and fall in the series again. United background where you know selfishness and pride and so I didn't have anywhere to turn until all these people in the in on this. I wouldn't tell anyone. I know every return.

That's where our story is unique in that we were in Chicago alone, no friends, nobody didn't have any friend basil that is asked what God used to help us because I got cut down at the knees and every return I just said I'll go all go to the so you think I want to keep this relationship with this other woman go in your done. I think I just I just failed. I just I just filled life. Everything was crashing and it wasn't about a relationship to keep it was about.

You know what you just blew it. You believe the best thing you had was her negotiation between the two of you was her begging were you angry were you or you crying what was going on between the two of you is a lot of tears and I think we work as verbal as we are even now.

Also, I think just even walking into this marriage and you know to be able to share feelings into a liquid. We didn't do it just didn't have that kind of opportunity.

Jody was a businesswoman who got her you know the suspect that they were you. The Franklin planner and she of the Franklin planner and she just basically put open Franklin planner and said okay I'll give this this much time to actually yeah and then I get a divorce and so she will make an integration about the divorce while right in and so that was the gap in the time for us to go to this church. And so we want to go in and I'll never forget it was so.

This happens on the worst night of our lives, which is a Saturday and Sunday. She gets up, put on the dress goes to the church and it's a kind of interesting story because the woman you know Jody is an angel because it was it was a church that was being used by an Asian church and capturing in the afternoon so this lady was kinda cleaning up and she started the conversation by saying my husband he was a failure to she had been through something she didn't talk with the empathy that she showed Jody is the thing that the tears that in any of us involved in ministry.

Now you know if the privilege of leading people, but the empathy we can show to people and their greatest point of difficulty and need this woman was there.

She was a godsend in a Jody actually went back we found her. Two years later after the marriage was restored and you know in Taiwan was to lie want to see if maybe she was an angel. But she was there and she did remember me and it turned out that she was actually the pastor's wife of the Asian church that I met in the afternoons and she was actually setting up note to me it looked like she was straightening things upper and little did I know I never at that point there was no hope that I would ever become a pastor's wife. I just think it's so funny how the circle and I remember one of things to sheet. There was something she said at one point where she was like maybe this is my chance.

I felt like she'd almost prayed that she could help somebody sometime you are playing in the past, present, and I totally didn't get it but I do remember you know the few things I remember there was something going on there, but I think a lot of situations we can think even the person is going through great difficulties, we can help someone else in the midst of our difficulty and we certainly learned that you can't but we you don't get back on track. Here we want to this after the worst of her life. We went to this marriage workshop in my basically the spotlight was so they come in, on, or that were they just doing these marriage workshops all the time you have one scheduled when it just started the week prior to our breakdown and so we got in there and it was literally week two of like an eight week thing in the way it worked there as they would do the first four weeks you determined after the first four weeks.

If you went for the second four weeks either went the marriage restoration route or the divorce recovery.

So some people were there they were already divorced and they were just trying to learn how to under house. That was a big church in Chicago and they this had been going there by 500 people attended the overflow group which again was a godsend because that's how I got an appointment with the Pat like he wasn't meeting with people anymore because the ministry got so big that I had put this in my Frank that I had make a decision by this Thursday about my divorce and I'm in the overflow group and I'm not getting my questions answered so I can with little questions that you needed to have answered can I get a divorce. I came around yeah I just didn't know how anything works in our parents were not forced. It was not something we ever thought about knew anything about. And I didn't know how do you do this you have to have grounds and if so then what do I do like to do. I have to have a pastor someone say that I you know you didn't know what to do, but I really did think that's what we were going there for were you sitting together in this overflow group and were you just furious with him.

While that's where her words would kick in because I would be sitting there and it moments I would have a little I would just kinda start doing a little pro-con lasting hours like how I operated Pickens and then it would hit me that I wasn't listening with my whole heart and I would drop my pencil and I'm a notetaker I don't drop my pencil that whole heart thing yeah it was really it was the Holy Spirit and I didn't know the verse of the time but Jeremiah 2913 seek me and you'll find me when you seek me with your whole heart and that's was when I with me and at the same time Ron would describe he was having those moments where you felt the spotlight was on.

He was sitting there thinking she would ask me. Should we should go to church. We put in the church. I was the private church for his younger friends at you never know growing up will know we grew up in a more visual setting where you know you just went in the Bible up really big and look at another speak on Friday night right and then he would just take on the bulletin look like you went you know you know sometimes that's why my sister and said I would bring the bull to put on the table and that was it. You know, but in reality this workshop. It was the spotlight was on me.

I never heard the things before the Bible was never real to me. The Bible does never presented to me in such a way where was applicable to my life and the reality was this I was experiencing conviction know now and I was sweating.

I mean I was crying and the things that this man was saying from the front. I'd never heard before I blew it and I wanted to do over want to start over. I had this huge weight of guilt and shame that I didn't know what to do if I didn't have anywhere to turn so I needed the forgiveness that I know now that I see that I understand and I know so many people walking around trying to do it on their own due to their own strength carry that weight themselves.

Jody was on a mission to make a decision, I was shattered my earth was shattered.

My life was over and nowhere to turn in my job I had a relationship there that had gotten.

I was broke. You guys Dave and I am in pastoral ministry have sat down with you probably couldn't count the number of couples who have had this kind of an earthquake go off in their marriage and their wondering can I get a divorce should I get a divorce. What we do now. Can we ever trust one another again. I'm in all these questions are swirling around and dear Jodi, say go there with your whole heart to get that advice, but don't just react. This is something you got to approach prayerfully and carefully and get some solid counsel before you decide what your next steps copy yet as you said, we sat with many couples over 29 years of ministry but the one that comes to my mind is my best friends who was in my men's group still is for 20 years and I was with John the night he discovered Betsy was having an affair.

Betsy is a really good friend of mine, and she's in my women's group. Remember thinking something's wrong and I remember saying to I think it was the night before she was caught. I don't even know why it came out of my mouth. I said I just you know that even if you're having an affair. I don't care what you would do, we would still love you. We would still pursue you. We met with Jenna Betsy. The next day in the next couple days and I never get in the car after one of our first meetings with Jenna, Betsy, I just listened to her not so hopeless. There was no brokenness. She wasn't contrite. John was angry, betrayed and absent here and now going. He raised this marriage from the dead is a beautiful beautiful story and I'm looking at a couple he's done the same thing different circumstances but similar. We having heard that part.

I can't wait to keep talking to hear the rest of it. Your folks will have this earthquake off in their lives.

In the last 48 hours or the last couple weeks there listing to this may be God is speaking to them through this on their wondering what should I do, what should I be listing to what you say to them I say I would get on my knees and God help me help us give me wisdom and take your time. I think we can react so quickly on our emotion and sometimes I think some of the best advice that you got last hold on and go in with all of your heart like that sounds stupid and I think that's down. Why would I do that. He just shattered my heart started yeah. Guard your heart, but to give your heart to God. You need to know to do that, but I'm thinking if the women who have gone through this to the men that have gone through this.

Why wouldn't you why. When you offer guide your heart and ask him to guard it to shield it but also to give you eyes to know and see what steps to take. You know I love the verse in the Old Testament the talks about God bringing beauty from ashes and were sitting there with the couple referred just a part of their story today and I got a book called the marriage, not seven choices to keep couples together. I'm going that's beauty from ashes). We got copies of their book in our family life today resource Center. You can go online for more information on how to get a copy of the book again. Seven choices that keep couples together marriage not around in Jody's happy family life today.com to order your copy or call one 800 FL today and tomorrow we're going to hear how Robin Jodi Sapp you got from the destruction of their marriage to the resurrection of their marriage and about the marriage counseling. They got that was pretty direct will hear that story tomorrow to be with thinker engineer today.

Keep links along with our entire broadcast production team on behalf of our hosts Dave and Ann Wilson about team C back next time for another edition of family life today family like today, family helping you pursue the relationships that matter most. The preceding program was from the family life today classic archives