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February 13, 2022 9:00 pm
Ron and Jody Zappia, authors of "The Marriage Knot," thought that marriage would be easy, since they had dated on and off in high school and college. Jealousy over Jody's corporate success, however, led Ron to look outside of his marriage for fulfillment. Jody thought she would surprise him and return from her business trip early, but she was even more surprised to find that he wasn't alone. The Zappias share how God intervened and gave them the help they needed.
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The following program is a family life today class. The truth of matter is I knew that I had sent in my life and I had done some things in college that was. I was pretty sure was not good but so we are sitting. I just in thing as we talk about that day but he was not gonna let up on me and I thank God for that. Because if he hadn't been so persistent. One person or walked out of there saved and I'd been in bad shape. I got what I went there for maybe, but I wouldn't have experienced the grace of God. Welcome to family life today where we want to help you pursue the relationships that matter most.
I'm in Wilson that Andre Wilson and you can find is they we live today.com or on our family life Family life today were your powerful story this week from a couple who jerkily written a book called the marriage. Not much KM boutique because I was a little of the marriage, not because that was almost good night and started back without the couple are doing is wrong and rose up.
You guys will conduct a family like to. These are friends of yours. You do ministry together are Ron and Jodi give leadership to a church in the western suburbs of Chicago. High Point church there for almost 2 decades. Parents of three daughters. And as we've already heard this week you guys met each other in junior high dated off and on throughout high school and college, got married, corporate fast tracking for both of you living apart part of the first six months of your marriage and all that came to a head when Jodi walked in one night to surprise your husband and you got the surprise and found that he was with another woman and that led to the crisis point that brought you guys to go on okay.
What we do and and Brown you were shattered and Jodi you you're the planner who said well I'm giving myself a two-week deadline to decide whether I divorce him or not, and you put that in your Franklin planner and then got counsel from a stranger who said you should go to this marriage workshop at a local church and that's where you ended up.
This was tonight after the berries yeah you are in a marriage workshop at a local church yet been to church together ever. Right now, and Ronnie said you're hearing things you never heard about her husband before, and God was at work on both of you really wasn't mean for us.
He obviously was devastation and I was making choices that you know live the lifestyle and doing some things that I wish I one wouldn't have, but we were, you know, I was broken and you know I mean I think about what Judy could've done that night and I this is the kind of stuff that people could respond in a lot of very very different ways and you know fortunately we went to this marriage workshop and Jodi had wanted to know talk with a pastor meet with the pastor because we were getting our questions answered.
One specific question. You know, can I get a divorce and so we want up getting a counseling meeting with this pastor and it was a very interesting meeting now being in ministry only week group would not jerk back on that was in the business will there's no pathway to ministry and you know we were looking at each other and that we went to this counseling meeting and the pastor said to us, so I've got about 45 minutes to meet with you this year make this a good technique. Jodi did you think Kate is 45 minutes. I will know what I thought I was going to get a check mark okay will and he said this was the pivotal point you just said you know we can talk about how messed up your marriages and all that, or we can talk about the grace and forgiveness of the Lord Jesus Christ and I needed forgiveness. That was a really interesting meeting for me because again I did. I really thought the spotlight with Kennedy and Ron he was going to be convicted guilty and I write a lot out of there with main okay or whatever cannot yes but so keep he mentioned something like you know yeah the master inner or God's plan or something I guess I looked… There's probably not much redeeming we can get out of the mess friends so it sounds like this other thing.
Maybe this will be more helpful and he started explaining the gospel to us and you know with you zero in on our sin, so we did end up time of the mess we're in because what I remember out of it. Is that like again. I thought the whole spot I was the man, Ron, and he would keep. He can't put it back on me as Ron broke pretty easily, like he knew what he did was wrong and he was like our friend Pastor Hua said now is he what he feels like he witnessed Ron's repentance right then and there. As Ron was saying, you know, recognizing that he didn't like the person he'd become. I don't even like to me right now, and he also recognize that he had sinned not only against me, but against God, which again that's the Holy Spirit because that's just wasn't even in our vocabulary. But that happens there but you understand something I didn't realize that I'd sinned against God, I never even made that connection of you really know. I didn't really care. I never thought about God and never really understood and so I was in a place where I had nowhere to turn. And so when he gave me a pathway of forgiveness.
I mean I took a lifeline. I didn't want to be the person I had become later, the most important person in my life Jodi for you. It was easy to see Ron's apparent sin could you see your own thing.
Well, the truth of matter is I knew that I had sent in my life. You know I had done some things in college that was pretty sure was not good. I felt shame I can remember feeling that sometimes on campus and so we are sitting. I just didn't think as we talk about that day and I didn't really want to talk about that day but he was not gonna let up on me and I think that that because if he hadn't been so persistent. One person or walked out of there saved and I'd been in bad shape. I got what I went there for maybe but I don't I wouldn't have experienced the grace of God, did he just keep coming at you until you broke, yet he just was. I had to confess some very specific sin. And I remember getting angry with him he he specifically asked me about so did you and Ron either did you have premarital sex and I remember thinking who is he to ask me that question right now you know like I was now not anything that is probably exactly. And I was glad I didn't want to deal with that today no one well yes, but I remember you know I was so justified.
Like is that he was the only person I married him. You know, and I was justified and that I had all these little things I was building my life on trying to be a nice person and it was just becoming very apparent that I was just a simple as Ron and I didn't plan on you don't dealing with that bad day, but it didn't say that oh so then you said it was okay to have sex outside of marriage when he said that this girl was ready to take this guy and I remember well what he said other forget that I did not I would never say that.
And then he said well you know actions speak louder than words, and I remember just I remember being mad and yet at the same time like you know like he was right.
Like you got me so basically, it became apparent that I needed forgiveness just as much is as Ron did you remember turning from anger to being self-aware and going why I am guilty before God. Yeah, definitely. And like I said it was almost like a battle going on there because I would I would go from being so mad to then be like you got me like yes I know I'm a sinner. I know I got you.
I know that that's not what we hear for you that I surrender that day. We did our lives to Christ.
We wanted that look like was that prayer was that it was a prayer and we can set up earlier was that was you like to get forgiveness from yeah we get.
We looked at each other tears in her eyes yet.
I don't know what led to that honestly and and part is I look back we had a really strong friendship and relationship God was breaking this down. He had to break me down.
I knew the reason we were in this counseling meeting was because of me because of my sin, because my fault because it was done so I was ready. I would've done anything to get rid of that guilt in East he let us in a prayer was October 31 on the project was following people are but I time I am aware of Stan Armour walking on the counseling office. It was fall. It was dark. What I remember asking a question like hey what about the marriage focus, we got this tension and I remember you know I had to figure out is he supposed to be moving out real practical things hurt and betrayal and trust. I mean that's all there right even though you both just surrendered to Christ, you got a lot of a lot of shrapnel now one. Yeah, although you know it is and soon it was hollowing like that. It's the first time maybe in your marriage.
The mass came off as you're doing you a covert hidden you put on what we do it knowingly put now they're gone and it's like you saw each other was Reformation. So then what happened with me. I can speak from my perspective and I walked out of there and I don't remember if you know we relock walking next to each other.
We drove there and that's craziness as it is like not to because of things that were doing were foolish and stupid. It's hard to say. I remember thinking likely Asher you can come on but it was it was kind of an and really just tagging along. And so she was like I've been through this before.
This is an act what's he doing like she didn't believe it and so she was fortunate enough to let me come along was like okay lithology prove it out and you're going to drop out of this thing and I didn't drop out because it was real. It was the first time life that I was learning things that could help me. I walked out of that meeting.
I can't speak for Jody but I'm telling you meant like the weight was gone. Feel like I hear.
And maybe there's someone listening today were you you trapped can't stop that behavior you have the guilt, the shame, everyone's looking at. I walked out of there with the freedom and the forgiveness that change the trajectory of my life.
I could feel it and you know we have one of those lightning rod moments stories where we I was struck, God healed. I didn't know what was going to happen. We didn't know worked with the marriage was going to was even going to survive, but I was walking out there with a new lease on life. I was locking up there with the second chance that I desperately wanted.
Indeed, unrelated to the marriage really is it that when the bottom or what you had given the marriage two weeks then you'd make a decision in two weeks to do so we get the two week deadline, we become Christians. So we went up Thursday on your planner are you thinking well I guess I just divorce as an option anymore. So what you were thinking clearly. However, I will say like the decision about him moving out.
The pastor asked a couple key questions in a was the had the affair ended done and Rhonda said yes and you know definitively and then he said okay well then it would probably be best if you guys stayed together because you've just experienced this new thing this new relationship that starting with God and would probably be good for you to email. See, I can just indicated that because the affair was over, we should probably not get separated and so I just trusted them and it was a good thing because you know there's fruit of repentance and to see some of yes and if we had been together. I think I still would've been a little leery that all stories on his best behavior. Things did you see I knew him so well that I knew they were things that were not in his control and he is like something as silly as you know, the Tupperware fallen out of the top shelf, and on top of him when he grabbed one thing on the past that would've been a huge Jody you know the major words set on the right thing. Yes my ball and it would've been a big you know it wasn't him. You don't. I knew his stuff. He could really control and so that got my attention and then what was really funny is, as I saw these couple of things even like you think alcohol to like you. He was right away. There was this not that he was a contributor to the breakdown attributed yeah and it was socially were just social traders done I can think of.
Yet he recognized yes because I saw some things like that that no one told him to do that you recognize that inhibitions get pampered with when you have a couple drinks yeah you keep the same job. You know I do love my job as this one that was on provision. Yeah, it was God's provision. He had really just been literally in the interview process with this other thing in and it was determined at that point he was deftly going to take this other job, we would say that there has to be some fruit. If you're in that situation certainly wouldn't tell somebody to stay in a damaging a difficult situation when there's no change when that's not happening but I think you know I was making decisions that were such to where Jody could see some things changing and that was really pivotal in the you know what the pastor did one of the things we learned as we talk about the marriage triangle dimension, a triangle in your mind right down with God at the top and you know you're on the left corner and your spouses on the right corner and he just said this and he didn't tell us about the marriage and whether we can work you just said.
As you move up one side of the triangle and the other person moves up side the other trying to look right out the bottom. You guys are both really far apart, you see that circling it in our work on this relationship with God. So as you work on your relationship on his we get closer distance in the middle is going to be the same and there's no guarantee that I would do it. She would do it but that's what we began to do and how civilians and simple. It seems we began to develop a relationship with God that we didn't have.
I love how Dave and I am talk about this said this over and over so many people in so many places, but nice to know I you I attribute you about 30% of the time is a glory for myself since you're here today is that you guys have made which is if you want to get this relationship. The horizontal relationship husband wife relationship you want to get that right. You gotta get this really know your point upward, vertical relationship with the heart of vertical marriage. The book the trip yeah and if there's a problem in the horizontal relationship that's an indication there's a problem in the vertical relationship you fix the vertical horizontal relationship can work its way out right yeah crazy thing is that's with the pastor and really what showed you. We've gone through the same thing in it's really cool think the miracle of you guys going vertical is now God's using that to help other couples not just remove everything I do, but I got this.
You know you're watching Ron change did you change and especially how did you get to to forgiveness. That's funny because I did it all just went hand-in-hand. I started seeing him change and I do remember feeling kind of like a little excitement like for you hopeful but hesitant yeah I would say that because I member my mom saying you can't change a person. People don't change.
So you made your bed you sleep in at are you you know you and I cannot change him at the altar ultimate alters only like that. So I started singling people can change and if if he can change than I can change and so then I remember, I think I started praying more like making sure that this whatever we did in the pastor's office stuck for me to get out because I saw him changing but I thought what I want to change. I want to be different to and so that was going on and then the issue of forgiveness was definitely hanging over my head. I will say that I because I too when we left that meeting had the same sense that rounded of the weight of the world was lifted off my shoulders and honestly even the weight of making this decision on Thursday divorce, you know, again, like how you mentioned. Give it time. You don't have to make this quick decision. You don't have to make it this week or and that was freeing to me to not feel like I had this big huge, just as I had to make yeah I that I could just give this some time and God was gonna show me now like I now was on a path where I was can get answers and that's what started happening and one of the big questions was I kind of understood I need to forgive him that was rooted in the fact that I had this sense that I had just been forgiven everything and I didn't know much of the Bible, but I do remember in the past, having come across the verse where like if you don't forgive your brother you I will forgive you it. I remember reading that once and I back close the Bible of I'm not as good off as I so I had the sense that I knew because I'd been forgiven everything I I was not in a position to withhold forgiveness I had.
I understood that, but the issue of trust was the bigger deal. Why can forgive him but I don't stay married well and this is really important for couples to hear because there is a difference between forgiveness and trust and forgiveness is a choice and a decision we can make.
Trust is something to be earned. That has to be over. So here's my formula good trustee yeah CB over tea is the formula consistent behavior over time equals trust so I want to rebuild trust in somebody in your you have to see a pattern of consistent behavior that there is a difference that things have changed and that's consistent over time. And people say to me how much time and I will go as long as it takes, how deep the wound go. That's how long it's going to take in and some legal like up couple months what it might take a year to reap what we don't know because it's how deep did the wound and the amount of time is in the hands of the one who was violated, it isn't the one who via it's like I said husband's all-time or wise. If you're the one is committed to fair or broken. The trust you hand them your phone so you can see me or I am everything you look at me like you crazy. I've repented it's over. You may take a year in the person who's been violated can't just refuse to grant trust, then they have to ask. I really forgiven).
As you can say I forgiven and still hold onto bitterness, but if you let go of the bitterness and if you really forgiven the posture of your heart should be. I want to be able to trust you again. I want us to get to this position so let's work together to make that happen. But the reality is this. When you're in the situation. I can only imagine.
I learned let's just stop on the forgiveness thing for moment I learned from forgiveness from Jody.
I learned God's forgiveness. What that was about. She forget it was it was earth shattering and I saw her, but then I needed to affirm because I knew I had damaged and I had broken the trust. I had a firmer and I had to slow down and she emotionally there was times where I had to for my commitment to her over and over so you guys are saying it had to be had to say. I'm committed to you this I mean I had to verbalize which was not easy for me because I wasn't a verbal person at that point in my life. Ron was there a point that you had to forgive yourself. I mean, I think I will show broken and shattered that I think the Lord's forgiveness really helped me understand that I think for me I would use it like this, I was caught in a situation to wear for me. I was so broken that when I got felt since the healing from God.
I think I would verbalize like this that I do have a fresh start. I can change I can look different. My life can be different things.
I believe you do. I believe that people can change and some of her listeners are how you think people can change and I believe it when I was in college and the reason I thought that was because I couldn't change I mean Thursday night the school I went to was like I was an athlete and Friday morning get up and you know you got the hangover and you know you look at each other, man a kid I would sit in my room. It's been a stop doing this. I got a stub and though you can't stop doing and that's what it's for me that God rooted some things out and I could be different. The new you was there and I believe that was as a result of God's forgiveness. I saw myself as a different purpose in a different light. And I would add this and I know you guys agree with this. It's like can people change yes and no because part of it is like we can change our own strength a little bit and maybe for a little while but permanent life changing life altering legacy transforming change you guys found it.
It's in Jesus is our right supernaturally that we don't have and so your story is a picture of that.
So I would sit in my listen right now if you don't know Jesus, man, this is the day to get on your knees is the data by your head and say, God, I've been trying to change. I want to change. I want long term change. I can't change my spouse but I can change me no exit I can't guide you.
Can I surrender when they go vertical when they do what you did what we did. They do what we do. God changes people inside out through the Holy Spirit. Resurrection supernatural power of God and it literally as consequences that will change your legacy for ever. I hope our listers will get copies of both the book that Ron and Julia Britton called the marriage, not seven choices that keep couples together got the book in our family life today resource Center you can order from us online@familylifetoday.com or call one 803 586-329-1800 F as in family L as in life, and then the word today, tomorrow or hear about the process of rebuilding trust after there's been betrayal of the marriage relationship.
Ron and Jodi Sapp.
You will be back with us again. Hope you could be back as well on behalf of our hosts Dave and Ann Wilson.
I'm Bob Lapine will see you tomorrow for another edition of family life today family like today, family helping you pursue the relationships that matter most.
The preceding program was from the family life today classic archives