What Does Real Love Look Like?

So if you want to know how to find out what love really is where you go where you get a good explanation you have finished investing terminated the Bible or do you want what most people would say mostly fulfilling or tell you what I would say many movies music you think I would say music pulled out his guitar.

Welcome to family life today where we want to help you pursue relationships that matter most and Wilson and Dave Wilson and you can find us if we live today.com or on our family life that this is family life today is crazy to think you know we go to love songs in the lyrics usually don't lead us to what real oversight you write every generation, every decade were asking the same question and so we need help and we've got help in the studio with us today. We've got Dr. John McDowell, who wrote a book with the title of love and it chasing love, love, sex and relationships in a confused culture say that that subtitle is really good because I think his parents as people were asking those questions there at the morning run of our mind in this culture for our kids because it is confusing and were not really sure how to talk to our kids and what to say and maybe it's causing us to think. What do I believe in think of this and really, of all people to talk about this and write about this. You have such credentials, you teach Abiola doctorate apologetic semi traveled the world, you have a podcast about apologetics you teach at a high school as well. Right I do part time. So you're around young people all the time and you're here in their questions and their concerns, and so here we are often talking to parents and we as parents are like, okay, how do we help teach and guide our young children, our homes as they become teenagers and understanding, love, sex and relationships and you got all those in your book, so we figure let's talk love today.

Still, here's the first question of why this book to me why now I would say there's a few answers to that one of them is Scotty Shauna and Shane when you're my three kids my oldest is 17 and actually use this as a textbook in a classroom with him so we had to go chapter by chapter at my private school you used your book absolutely all as I wrote it to talk with Mike about it in different ways.

Yeah, my daughters 14 should be high school freshman, she's a volleyball player surfer lawn from Southern California so I have all the concerns, especially his dad and then my son is eight. My youngest and going into third grade next year. So as you go through this with your son and daughter did they make edits. They agreed to. They push back. So with my daughter.

What's interesting she was 12 when I first started to write it.

She just turned 14 and I told her I said hey if you'll read this manuscript and everyone giving feedback. Number two just go to coffee with me and just talk about it I'll buy you a pair of new shoes my family. As you know, dad. There's an outlet down the street I can get two for the price. One is that of cows like you can get three for the price of one cell writing is okay a time. You know what is whatever. So she read the whole thing took notes there. It then we went out to coffee shop.

We sat down similar to an hour an hour and 1/2 and she's like, here's my favorite example here's something I learned. I like what you think that this chapter and we just talked it through father and daughter.

There were no lectures, just a big piece of this was just helping her feel comfortable talking with her dad and yet on this kind of thing before, but we walked to the content.

She gave me little feedback.

I went and bought her a couple parishes you did it. So now my son this was in a classroom. The cool thing that I love this. By the time we so I teach at bio full time grad program and undergrad one class. 20 teach I'll teach theology apologetics of gospel culture spiritual conversations, evangelism, stuff like that but I teach one high school class part-time at a private school. My son is in that class. Since juniors and seniors so 1618-year-olds and we reason this book, amongst others, and one of his feedback he goes. Dad you have Artie talked about this stuff. While not a ton new to me any kind. Almost felt bad scene I was like, that's awesome that is. That means we've been having these conversations for a while and just gave me a chance to reinforce a way to go. What it it felt good question.

As always they know in their head and live it out. That step to exactly know that's that's really what I wrote it to just give parents a tool to have these conversations with the kids down as we read it. It's a great great tool.

I mean just the and even have a small group or a workbook to go with in which you go to a nine session Bible study for teens will have that on our website if they left today.com but I mean what a great discussion to start with a 12 1314-year-old because there have discussion everywhere and it's confusing what they're here and in your subtitle. So where you start when you get to the love the question because the culture Sam loves this where you start and what how would you define what real love is one things I try to do in conversation I kids is not unnecessarily demonize culture so it one things I point out to my son and in our class we talked about how do you know the huge Marvel movies that climaxed recently with endgame. The final episode is Ironman laying down his life for sacrificially as an act of heroism and love like what does that remind us of Jesus, a greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for a friend. So sometimes our culture gets love right.

Sometimes our culture gets love wrong.

So for many in this generation.

Love, basically equals affirmation whatever you believe, however you choose to live and understand yourself.

I'm only loving if I affirm that that's not a biblical view of love.

A biblical view of love is that I am in favor of what's objectively best for you. Whether you realize it or not to seek the emotional, spiritual, relational, best and good for another, even if they don't realize it.

I'm in. Ironically, people who put Jesus to death thought they were doing what was good there.

Put the only innocent man ever to death so something's not right just because we feel it or just because we choose it. So that's where it gets difficult for this generation is they intuitively understand that love is been in favor of somebody's best, but they have a hard time realizing you sometimes that means someone might disagree with you. Sometimes they might not like you they might call you a bigot, but real love is been committed to another's best and being willing to sacrifice for you. I am so interested in that because even when you said as parents we can demonize the culture.

I think we do that. I remember when my kids were in high school I found myself doing because I was so fearful sure I wanted them to be for sure. Like now.

This is evil and so thinking that will cause them to pull away and I think it made them more curious like what he mean by that. You know, yeah, I think we need to look at why are we doing that I would just add that I think you know even sit with you at lunch and just watching your life and pretty cool to see your YouTube channel blowing up and watching you interact with people of different viewpoints different theology.

There is a gentleness in your spirit that communicates love even when you are disagree. Absolutely. On the other side of the.

The issue here honoring. I don't think we in the church of done a very good job of that. Why, that's loving it. I think you're right about that when Jesus spoke truth, but he had a kindness. He had a gentleness about him. He turn the other cheek, sometimes Christians, we contribute just as much to the cancel culture as everybody else does. We name-calling you look on social media. How quick we Christians just criticize and say things to defend ourselves or win an argument rather than asked the question what is it mean to love this person the way that Jesus did.

That's hard for us who are adults and our identity. Note the three of us. We understand who we are and who God made us to be.

But imagine being 12.

Imagine being 14 and they're trying to figure out who they are.

These messages from the surrounding culture are just powerful, so a huge piece of this question of like love is a part of a larger question who am I who did God make me to be what's his design for my life. Was it really mean to love other people.

Those questions sometimes get lost when we just get into the nitty-gritty of sex, love and relationships. I would frame this in terms of what is what is love. How we love God how we love other people, then some the questions about sexuality start to fall in place and start there because you do that early in the book you you take the question loving you go vertical with the love God and love others.

So help a parent understand coward I would I teach us much much to say. This is a biblical godly understanding what will of what love is and as you said get into identity who they are one of the best ways to teach something is by asking questions I ask a ton more questions with my kids. And in my classroom that I do, just sit in my kids down go. Let me give you a definition about this so a song comes up the radio. Sometimes I'll talk to my kids. If something pops up in a movie if it pops up a song, I'll just talk to my cousin and I'll say some like that's pretty interesting when you think about that view of relationships and you think that's really loving and try to cultivate conversation more than saying hey open this up.

Let me give you a definition, although sometimes I do that with my kids as well, so defining love my dad actually does to me right when I was a kid took me Ephesians chapter 5 where it says husbands love your wives as Christ loved the church and then it says love your wives as you do your own bodies said one how to love your wife.

The question is how you love your own body says nurture and cherish it will without getting into the depth in that passage. Essentially, I go into all this in the book essentially needs to protect and to provide is what love is so I've said my son, if you're in a relationship with a girl.

The words that you say your physical touch the way you treat her if you love her, you would act in a way that would protect her and provide for her past that comes from Ephesians chapter 5/12 or 13. I remember my dad sharing that with me and it cut it stuck with me. So speak almost like a funnel when I would hear the songs about love.

Everything well are they looking out for themselves and what feels good, or they really protecting and providing for another, it's interesting that you mention your dad because you know Josh McDowell. I was on the college campus in the 70s he came to Ball State University. I picked him up at the airport is a part of athletes in action. A branch of crew yeah I don't well today and it was before the why wait, I think in the 70s because my weight was more Allie's 80s. I tried putting it interesting that he's sort of focal point of why wait campaign that helps young people stay pure sexually until marriage and now you're in a book you know there's a legacy connection there in your dad teaching about love what what did you get from your dad for about love as you about your mom. Yeah, and you question any of the things that they were teaching at the time yes on on both of those sites. I appreciate that you observe that because writing this was kinda coming full circle going back and saying what my parents teach me what I maybe disagree with and how is this conversation changed hello.

I agree with out say hands down the most powerful lesson that my father gave me. Along with that definition of love is that sex is not bad. It's good and it's beautiful. And God's commandments are to protect and provide for us. It's a positive not a negative. That's why he started the why wait campaign as he said in the 80s a culture even the church which is sex is bad and it's wrong.

He's like no it's it's good it's a blessing it's it's beautiful but God has given us guidelines to protect us to provide for us, so that lens has been one of the biggest things that I've taken away from growing up.

Probably an area where II differ little bit is if you go back to just the way sexuality was taught in the 80s and 90s there was almost no discussion about singleness. There was none, and I would argue that as a whole. As the church I think we made an idol out of merit. Yeah too much. Marriage is beautiful. The Bible B starts with a marriage. It ends with a wedding you know the 10 Commandments. Mother and father are 3 to 10 Commandments. Jesus taught marriage. Paul taught a marriage it's huge.

It's a metaphor God chooses to demonstrate his love for the church but few first Corinthians 7 and Matthew 19 being married and being single are to equal God honoring ways of being in relationship and I think we downplayed singleness and were reaping some of the consequences for that now that less people are getting married and they're getting married later. Later the church in many circles feels like with ashes for married people not for singles. It's kind of an add on and so in the middle section of the book. Once I lay out the beginning, clearing away some the false ideas I say here's God's idea for sex is design and then singleness. I intentionally put it first and then God's design for marriage. So that's the piece that I think has been left out. Of teachings on sexuality in the church as a whole. That is just frankly not balanced in biblical so as parents. How do we have that conversation, you're right we do that is like when you get married. How would we shift that and talk to our kids at the key at the eight year KR right now so that when I took my son at night and I pray for and we pray for a few things and I'll just say something like when I'm praying I'll say you know God if if Shane gets married someday may you protect his future spouse and prepare him for that marriage. I choose to qualify it that way because Jesus was single. Paula single. I think Jeremiah was John the Baptist one even Paula first content seven is like. I wish you were like me. The other thing that does I talk to college students and their's.

They feel like they got a get married right away that even if you get married someday. There's a season of singleness that we shouldn't look past, so I just frame it with my kids a little bit differently. In the end times.

If we have single people over like in my classroom. I talked about. We had a conversation when they like, hey, who are some of the single teachers on campus.

We think of the challenges they thought about ever gone to lunch with them and asked about their life. The students are like I've never thought about this something well.

There a part of the church. You should be curious about their experience. So it's just that's one correction amongst others that I've tried to bring in in the book. You know, one of the most beautiful moments of my life and we mention it here before and you just mentioned, praying with your son about you know his future spouse.

We are your daughter the her future husband. I took Fridays for last 35 years. I know that because my oldest is 35. So when he was born. I decide Fridays. My fast day food wise animator. Pray for his future spouse before she was even born. So you can imagine on wedding day for all three sons on the dad but I'm also the pastor and I'm looking at this young woman who doesn't know that I've been praying for her. I didn't know her name but I prayed exactly when he said them like print exact prayer protect her. Provide for her, a woman of God and I'm telling you look at her with tears in my eyes and touch us because to share my son but like Lindenwood God brought in and also all through those years not doing it perfectly, but trying to teach our young. We just had three sons those are trying to teach them what love looks like and how to protect and love a woman and so hear you say that as I wanted.

What a great action step either to do either one of those you do if John does every night with his son and daughter, do what we've done or figure out your own way to say I'm going to get on my knees for my children not only to teach them about love to to show them what love looks like.

But to pray that God would protect them and provide for them in a powerful, powerful wedges they may have listeners if that's their action step. As a result of today while yeah I can be pretty balanced on what would your action step as we talk about love. As our listeners and parents are thinking all yeah what what can I do, what would you suggest with their kids.

I would say have specific conversations with your kids. So I'm actually pretty convinced that most young people, even the church asked Christian school families. Some of us home school families best churches have imbibed far more secular ideas about love than biblical ideas and the best way to service. This is just in conversation, asking questions and listening can make a huge amount of headway with our kids to worldviews largely passed on through intentional conversations and relationships. If you haven't had this conversation started. Now, if you've had be encouraged to go continue it and do it even more. That's really good and figure out where your kids are listening to, and sit down, listen to it with them and don't judge it immediately. Less for only did that when our first was in high school and my experience with the CDI thrown in the trash she had.

I'm glad I married today because he takes it as a trashcan plow break hey listen I was so overwhelmed and fearful, which caused me to react instead of respond, but I'm so glad that Dave was like that because what you're saying is don't demonize what they're listening to because it shuts down their hearts immediately because I think that's really wise to ask questions. The song you may think this is the ROTC's music or movie that you've ever seen, but to say tell me what you think about this and you know what that doesn't mean there's not a time to go to ground what this is out of balance around that sometime yeah I been like you know it. This is garbage. And when you're saying but yeah stop listening yes and sometimes I come back and like you know what I overreact on a site like that usually what I did is okay to make those mistakes but erring on the side of not overreacting and shutting down conversation and inviting it more often than not, that's a letter I listen first payment, I think Sean's finger. Jesus is the one who told us that were to be as wise as serpents but as gentle as dogs and so much about applies to parenting course book of James says would be quick to listen, slow to speak, slow to anger, and that applies to parenting, as will great advice today from Sean McDowell talking with Dave and Ann Wilson that you may know someone who would benefit from this conversation, you can point them to the family like today podcast.

There's a link on our website a family like today.com or it's available wherever you get podcasts of your listing to family like today is a podcast. Be sure to leave a review and a rating. It helps spread the word about family life today. Sean has written a book called chasing love, sex, love and relationships in a confused culture. This would be a great book for parents to go through with teams or for youth group to go through together, but it's not just a teenage book. Sean tackles questions like what do I do if I'm not happy in marriage can sexual sin be truly forgiven. What is the gospel say about LGBT Q issues.

Other questions like that. We want to make this book available to you as our way of saying thank you for your ongoing support of the Ministry of family life today. This program this podcast is available because listeners like you make it happen. Those of you who have given in the past. Those of you who are monthly partners with us on family life today you make this program possible not just for yourself but for the hundreds of thousands of people who tune in every day. So thank you for your support. If you're able to help with the donation today, you can request your copy of Sean McDowell's book, chasing love, sex, love and relationships of a confused culture will send it to you as our way of saying thank you for your support of the work of family life.

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I hope most of you are getting together regularly with other couples you know other people. Maybe it's in the church small group or with folks in your neighborhood. I don't know what the context is, but I hope you're getting together with others to dig into God's word as it relates to marriage and family and I were convinced your family life that the best way for us to grow in godliness is to do it in community and we put together resources designed to help small groups be able to engage with what God's word has to say about marriage and family.

We've got video series like the art of marriage. The art of parenting.

They plan Wilson's political marriage. I did a series called love like you mean it from my book by the same name. If you're looking for resources that your small group can use related to marriage or parenting go to our website family like to.com right now between now and February 18. If you use the promo code new year 2022 will save 25% off any small group order so if you're looking for some great small group resources and you'd like to save a little money go to family life today.com and you can order from us there. Don't ever stop to ask yourself the question, would the world be a better place if everybody followed Jesus. You, of human sexuality, and we understand what Jesus view of human sexuality is, does the Bible tell us tomorrow. Dave and Ann Wilson will talk with Sean McDowell about that Sean will be back with us.

Hope you can be back with us as well on behalf of our hosts Dave and Ann Wilson on Bob Lapine will see you back next time for another edition of family life today.

Family life today is a production of family life accrue ministry helping you pursue the relationships that matter most