Perfect Love

I recently talked to a guy thing was last week and how we get on this topic. I think you brought it up but he said that he canceled his Sports Illustrated subscription the day they put Caitlin Jenner on the cover as the athlete of the year because Bruce Jenner became a woman, Caitlin, and they had her on the cover of the Sports Illustrated. Assuming you cancel he goes as this wasn't a athletic move. I didn't like what they did, so I cancel.

I may just cancel my subscription.

I was like whoa and I thought, he's telling me that. But if he would say that out loud publicly he would get canceled.

Yeah, welcome to family life to day where we want to help you pursue relationships that matter most and Wilson and Dave Wilson and you can find us@familylifetoday.com or on our family life and his family life today is one of those things that you know if you say something like that in this culture that this is not the popular view and you can pick almost any popular subject. If you are going sort of in a different minority position on it you sorta get canceled.

We live in a cancel, culture, and I cannot follow you. Listen to you, respect you anymore. What's up with that.

What I think our culture is really shifting right now to and I think many of us file for walking on eggshells.

We don't want to offend and it's not even it can be offensive, but then the result of what we said can be volatile if even on Twitter. Any amount of time it is a crazy world right now where people are being attacked. It's I think in some ways it's good that were careful with her saying and we need to be loving in all respects. But you're right where living in a culture that's canceling everything I haven't read this is a just in the Christian world of the religious world I read this morning that a pretty famous broadcaster on in the MBA said, I'm done. I'm quitting because all of our conversations about what I cannot say publicly because I get attacked because unlike a live like this anymore.wow, it's interesting that he says we are afraid to make any comment publicly because of being canceled and think about what our kids are dealing with on any sort of social media platform. I think more than ever. They are really careful yet. I think our kids in the church have a lot of questions about some important issues and there's a book that came out written by the author who sitting across the table from us. Rocco MacLachlan is sitting in here with this as well yeah you wrote a book called 10 questions every team should ask and answer about Christianity.

I mean, you got an unbelievable pedigree in terms of PhD and Renaissance literature in just a background in defending the faith, in writing, wrote a book that was well received call, confronting Christianity and this is sort of the teenage version of that Ethan to seminary. You have three kids you're married, how many years he been married, setting, and your kids are the oldest is 11 yes youngest is going to be three scene that's right. And so, in the book you go through 10 questions and you didn't hide from some of the biggies you know I'm in love several more about evidences the Bible how you know the Bible is true in heaven and hell and is Christianity just for me. We have a couple chapters in there about gender diversity sexuality.

So let's get into some of those but why put those in you feel like obviously you do. These are important questions for your teenager yeah yeah as long as I can remember I've than a follower of Jesus, and as long as I can remember I've been attracted to women and because I've always been a photo Jesus.

It was no something that II chase to perceive a unit as a teenager. As a young adult life chosen to marry a guy rather than a guy thing was not a question by slightly Avenue nice but might let it be my two women today and set up a thing for many people here, not like my goodness, what kind of strange creature you doesn't really fit into many of our categories because we tend to think of you and the church of Vienna and then the LGBT community foxhunting I'm gesturing my hands while they had the set of LGBT coming to that and what we tend not to realize is that she does this quite a lot of overlap.

It's like the Venn diagrams you learn about in Middletown where the cycles that you have to have some semi-lab and the way that we in church is a buffet navigated.

This is to just like ignore people within the communities. He may experience same-sex attraction, or he may relate to the struggle with a sense of themselves as it is a tire is a go to family with the sign is fake so all kind of come down the Honda like what what what's going on here. You connect that you really a photo Jesus if if this is in an area of temptation and struggle for you in ways that we probably diet when it's you know somebody struggling with heterosexual desire. For example, and then we created this idea that units the LGBT effects out that we very much too often I think I have stigmatized had this this idea about what school Dale has been a transgender old bisexual people I like and I think especially for kids growing up today as they start to meet friends at school if they go to college and you have roommates or friends. He and you identify scale lesbian on Morris transgender though that this process of thinking what a minute using the Bible said that it was an okay from some to pursue a same-sex sexual relationship that I met this really nice guy. He's he's gay and he has, it seems, have a great relationship with his partner and he seems like he's already committed to the past, like all the things that they may have been raised to believe about gay people.

They seem to fit with the sky and said then they say well not that we know that. I believe the Bible says history.

Now we have a hard time sometimes knowing what to repent of, but I think the two things that we need to do it on Osos of cultural issues right now.

As Christians we need to repent and believe I should be deepen on DNA right it's how I am crystal you and me believe. I think we need to recognize their meaningful things that we as as Christians need to repent. On the way that we've too often treated again as if I Saw the chat will people who struggle with with same-sex attraction within the church, but we also need to believe what the Bible says all is going to repent.

How have we treated in general I'm going to bring another area and he because that's so into locked in people's minds. And I think sadly that been quite interlocked in and the sad history of Christian sent in an Congress but your original point of like today to notify him somebody's transgender identity. For example, even just to be like a little bit dated all unite on you, so you Christians yet written already with the times.

It is a census of righteous anger will, E. If you don't offend him. Somebody's transition, for example, alone comes some design that veterans what is that come from the more the only city studied the system he's gonna come from outside. You can get my bearings in the US the last decade will say the more it's become clear that actually the young guys like this just finds that the white 60 segregationists use the Bible's two go against like interracial marriage, and to the desegregation of schools and and all the things that that sadly many white Christians did say you Christians today using a Bible is to reject and oppress LGBT fake until we fully recognize that Paul and I have that statement is true until we're ready to come to reckon with aunt we not ready to be able to speak with clarity and authenticity in love into our she's today because for many of the kids today and especially for kids. B is the transgender rights movement. Today is the new civil rights movement and say the people like Aussie long enough gay marriage along and with them transgender identities.

This is like the new stuff right smooth. It's not just the kind of agree to disagree situation. It's a question of justice and again I think we need to sit offend take that moment to repent. At the same time as we believe what the Scriptures say when it comes to sexuality and eyes. I mentioned that I've always been someone who said primarily attracted to women. If I had come to this but like I look like after the Scriptures, and if I'd found it they said yeah no-show it's fine like gun gay marriage is 77 is compatible with being a follower of Jesus I pray been quite pleased to find that that's not what I found. But instead I found something more profound and more beautiful and most surprising, which is that the very reason that God made male and female them a reason. He made sex and sexuality and marriage was to tell us the story of his love for us. It's not when we see the Bible talk about Jesus as like a husband, and the church has his wife. That's not just light looking around all that is human marriage. Alex nice song in combat Jesus and the charge that no the actual. The reason that God even made us as sexual beings and that he even created this kind of relationship with gives the tiniest glimpse of Jesus's passionate love for us and I think understanding that then put everything else into perspective.

Whether it's you struggle with pornography or whether it shall struggle with you heterosexual lust or whether it shall struggle with same-sex desire.

Like all of us recognizing the ultimate love is Jesus completely changes the way that we think so when you say, repent, because there is a belief also that okay we use the Bible and injustice in civil rights and slavery, you name it, and the argument goes, you know 30 years from now. You're in a repent of saying that same-sex marriage was wrong. It's fine. You can change just as you realize 50 years ago.

You're wrong you repent of that is that what you're saying is going to happen. Are you saying repent of the past.

That's a real thing that we should own. But, and I think that you are from what you just said but the truth is, Scripture says this and so no one like to change my mind about this.

Although I can repent of it in a loving way yeah you said the problem with the 60 segregationists was not they were to Christian it was that they went off Christian and often will they be things that Bible to hot it was that they were actually completely failing to read the Bible reading and in such an extraordinarily selective I mean the kind of interrupted gymnastics you have to do to justify segregation from the Scriptures is actually about as drastic as the kind you have to do to just to find a marriage perspective if we read the Bible will find that it pulls us in in one direction when it comes to racial equality and justice and in completely different direction when it comes to same-sex sexual relationships, and so I think in both cases, when you come back to the Bible so when I say repent and believe. I mean look at what the Scriptures say see where all online terrace cheats or treatment about this doesn't align with what the Bible says and then believe that what the Bible says is tree and was really fascinating is that that even in this is a point made by a dead non-Christian historian called Tom Holland and in the UK, even the very basis on which it affects you gay-rights advocates.

For example, 00 transgender activists the basis of their arguments say that all human beings equal and that they sue been historically oppressed and marginalized, should be trampled on, but they shot should be protected and assisted, if individual uniqueness to everyone. And this, a quality that is regardless if he or why you always come from what you doing when we get those ideas that she straight out of the Bible then not just self-evident truths that all human beings created equal. That's a specifically Christian claim is a face on both sides and all current conversations about gender and sexuality.

Whether or not he realized that a set of standing on on Christian ground and we just have looked down to see that the set of moral soil beneath the feet, which is any that because of Christianity. Let's talk about this, practically when your kids come home from school and they say oh my friend has two months or my friend just said she came out she said she's gay today talk about how you dialogue with your kids about those conversations or how our listeners could have that dialogue in a very loving way, but really honest and biblical way yeah yeah I one of the super helpful things for me because my kids. Absolutely, if they have a known binary friend UST moms for example in that unit 11 nine say Mrs. pre-anybody coming out as gay themselves as suddenly, that's very much part of that the out of everything. One of things I'm able to do is to talk them through the stories of several of our Christian friends who I took through my friend Rachel stories and stuff is crazy. You came to Christ out of a lesbian atheist background when she was on the credit yell through my friendly story.

He grew up in the church is always been attracted to men and ready not to women. A tool in his living as a single man.

Seven. The load of the all his hot and in alchemy to check site. I chatted a bit of my story is that if you left some exciting and so Mike and Rachel's but like I want them to know that Christians on different because we necessarily have different patent subtraction or different struggles of different whatever we different because Jesus is called us and that within Jesus's family we we gonna believe different things and do different things than fix outside I'm getting encourage them to love their friends regardless of who they said they are old whether they have two moms or two dads and one mom and a dad that actually on disposition always needs to be to love, but the pulse of loving someone important part of loving someone is pointing to Jesus and telling them about his exclusive claims on them, and if and when one day they put their trust in Jesus a hold of the things we need to change the lives that when you say we talk about repent and I think we talk about believe will make sure understand the believe part believe what believe that sex and he belongs in male-female marriage for Christians, and that actually M.

Same-sex relationships consistently through the Scriptures are seen as not being appropriate for God's people. But here's the thing I like to say that sometimes a little bit provocatively because fix was on time saying in the Bible condemns same-sex relationships. I sent out. Doesn't the Bible she come on same-sex relationships at a level of intimacy that we Christians haunt average anything about it. Pull talks about as being one body together and he calls his friend Anisa Mrs. very hot to help with that will be for you to cite out like a male fire you will.

My very hot he talks about is his income rates and alms is being mixed together in love like the language of intimacy shall opposite sex. As well, but I think particularly same-sex closeness that we see in the New Testament, Jesus, and greater love has no one on this, that he laid on his life for his friends.

It's not that we didn't believe in love between people of the same sex. We actually believe in a better love between people of the same sex than anything, this wealth has to offer us and we believe not because we believe in Jesus, yet we keep the sexual part of the nonexistent yeah because because sex is telling us one very particular story about God's love for us and as I mentioned out it's about a we sit in the Old Testament is God is the faithful husband in Israel is the often unfaithful wife we see Jesus calling himself the bridegroom and we see Jesus a pole being presented as a husband to that the church is his bride so that that's one human relationship in which we glimpse God's love for us. Then we see all the different ones we see the parent-child relationship. He very clearly got been cold all father throughout the Scriptures we know that's really place an important relationship but is not a sexual relationship. It's a different kind of relationship, and likewise we see friendship dimension Jesus and greater love has no one than this note. While this is a love it's okay if you can't do nothing else but greater love has no one than this, that he laid on his life for his friends. So I think we need to recognize that sex and marriage actually peaceful and imposing gift from God, but they are, they have a very specific design and purpose, and that it's a different design and purpose than other kinds of relationship.

It also give us different clips of Jesus's love that obviously you mentioned your journey. You know, but love to know what was said journey like as you realize same-sex attracted, followed Christ from a young age. How did that go was the navigation something that was very difficult. Easy how to do church out of your community. Respond you walk us through that little bit. Well I didn't tell anyone you give a quiet, which I think is true of a lot of questions I get emails every week off more than once a week from people whether that 15 of 45 who have never talked about the same-sex attraction with the Christian friends of family and a really struggling. I think one of the things that we can all be palatal is that she making this something that we can talk about because Satan is one of his weapons against this is making each of us feel like well you will struggle is the thing you can't talk about.

You can't get help with this.

You'll pornography addiction is far too disgusting to talk about your friend and all your expensive same-sex attraction nobodies can understand that just can reject key I think for me personally I and he started talking to Christian friends in my late 30s and the reason was I was terrified that if I opened up about this that all of my female friends would take just like half a step away from me. Yeah, they would run screaming and he they went like that, but that they would just take a little soft step. Is that whatever what I realized is that she only taken off a step back from them because they were sharing the real struggles in their life and I wasn't one of hot and say ashy.

I hadn't given them the opportunity to step in alongside me and to be friends to you name me and love me and he will speak truth to me what I need to trace and will speak encouragement loved me when I need that setting this threefold SEM whatever patent subtraction whatever struggles with scenting wheat we all need friends in the Lord and will meet the people who others it can become to lightning up with heavy talk to your kids about what to say this, your kids would come and talk to you about that is that what you would hope that they would open up. I really hope they would come the listeners are thinking. I don't know if I want my kids to open up about that because I don't know how it she knows me. The withdrawer guy, Mike had rather not know right I know of course I want to know with Thursday was a part of the uncomfortable echo my goodness, what we can do with that. And so I'm guessing that you would hope your kids would tell you whatever that struggling with, they would tell me and I hope that they would have other people as well. Around them, because I think we have a profoundly important response. But as parents to disciple children, but I think José God puts all of us in a family that's broader than even the nuclear family and so I would want them to be able to talk with my friend Rachel, my friend may well like others who can give their own angle on the same trees that you can actually walk with them alongside them in ways that can complement how I can do that in the mother's and talk about your response. If one of your kids came and talk to you about that or if you had talked to your mom about that. What would you hope the response would be.

I think the terrifying thing in particular about this struggle, I think. I'm sure it's to some extent trip of any struggle, you might be bringing to parents, but I think that worried that I'm suddenly can be seen as a completely other oil light sewing really wrong with me and the light can't be logged in the same way that I was loved the full something whether it's a child or friend who shows this experience with the fussing is just to offend the you love them and that this has made you love them any less fees to know this about them and that this is actually pretty normal. Experience them in this statistics show that about 14% of women in about 7% of men expand some degree of same-sex attraction that she need 1% of women and bought 2% of men exclusively attracted to the same-sex effects like me who pry attached women but actually doesn't mean me. I can't make out many marriage to a good man. What a touch of the largest category of effects the experience same-sex attractions to help them to understand that that no set of one strange person amongst this massive crowd about people he insults never cross the mind and then get them some good resources. There are some great books that have come out recently on these questions for Becca thank you for being here.

One of the great resources that Rebecca has in mind on the subject of same-sex attraction is a book written by her friend Rachel Gilson, Rachel's been a guest on family life to the Aurora book called born again. This way we got her book and her family look to the resource center and we have links to the podcast episodes with Rachel. I know this is an issue for so many moms and dads today as teenage sons and teenage daughters are wondering am I gay and if I have same-sex approximate what do without Rachel's book deals with that specifically the course for Becca's book deals with that, in part, along with other questions that teenagers are facing today were making Rebecca's book available this week to those of you who can help support the ministry of family life to date with the donation of any amount. The book is called 10 questions every team should ask these are good important healthy questions, not questions that we auto ignore but questions we auto deal with him. Him and his mom's of beds we need help in knowing how to help navigate our teams through the minefield that is in front of them.

Rebecca's book does just that. Again, we'd love to send you a copy if you're able to support the ongoing mission of family life to day. Our goal is to effectively develop godly marriages and families. This radio program is a part of how we do that we have events and resources we have our website podcasts that are available. All of this is made possible because blisters like you make it possible to your donations.

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Women traditionally are thoughts turn toward Thanksgiving. Not just the holiday but being thankful and I hear family life.

We got a lot to be thankful for David Robbins who's the personal family life is here with me and David. This is been a year where much of our traditional ministry has been challenged because of cold wood and yet we have seen God continue to work through the ministry of family life in some pretty remarkable ways.

Those of you know snow is likely for our we can remember getaways or for family life to day. Another resources we bring, but one of the things that we are passionate about that is described in our mission statement of effectively developing godly families who change the world one home at a time. We are passionate about helping families, disciple families, their own and the families in their community and so we for a long time of created resources that allow people to pass on the timeless truth of the Scripture in the gospel to homes around them and so this year alone over 300,000 people have gone through one of our family life. Small groups that's been facilitated by someone who gets a passion to host a group and impact people around them and it's encouraging to see what happens in the US in a number like that but I just got an email this past week of a group of people in Philippines, trusting God for further movement of godly families in the Philippines and so they took one of our latest small group resources, vertical marriage and gathered a group of people in dozens of leaders all over the country have been leaving vertical marriage small groups in churches in the Philippines and that's where hearts, for that's what our mission is about is to have families discipling families living out Jesus's call to fulfill the great commission and those of you who support this ministry financially. You make all of this possible. So thank you for that.

Thank you for partnering with us in helping to effectively develop godly marriages and families and we always look forward to hearing from you. We hope you can join us again tomorrow when our friend Ray McKelvey is gonna be here along with Ron deal Ray shares his story of growing up not knowing his biological father and then having his mom and stepdad divorced when he was a child, so there was a lot going on in Ray's family, but affected him and later affected his marriage to Rob will hear all about that tomorrow. Hope you can join us for about on behalf of our hosts David M. Wilson on Bob Lapine. We will see you back next time for another edition of family life today family like today's production of family ministry helping you pursue the relationships that matter most