Marriage: Split, Survive, or Save?

I think the part about splitting is you know you're having all these struggles with your relationship and it's like you can pack the relationship up in a box and you know, put it out to the roadway and someone always get away and then there that's the problem is done when the day of separation comes, you actually get another box and in that box you have the financial problems in the property division and the parenting schedule and making parenting decisions and then layered underneath that are all the relationship problems that you thought you were putting out to the roadside. Welcome to family life today where we want to help you pursue the relationships that matter most kind and Wilson and Andre Wilson. You can find us if we live today.com or on our family life. This is family life today so I will never forget the day of driving with my dad to a band rehearsal for our church yeah and describe a little bit about your dad, like where was he in your life. Well, I mean I'm in my 40s. Probably at this time we insert our church. Five or 10 years previously. My dad and I were not close. He left when I was six for a girlfriend actually ended up being remarried but now asserted back in my life and we would see him maybe once or twice a year, death, and see much, and it was sort of fun because he was a drummer made his way through college plan. The drums of guitar player going to this rehearsal and think it is cool moment he's gonna watch his son and rehearsal, but out of nowhere I get this thought in a mirror on her forget. I look over I going to did you regret the divorce because they had been married 25 years that I'd never talked about this so sort of a scary moment for me to bring this up, but I don't know why I don't know where I had this thought hey dad, you regret the divorce thinking. I know he'll answer this before.

I'm like done with the question he responds blank. Yes like this role like he had thought about this many times and I member go on why he goes because I missed you, I missed your whole life and it was one of the most regrettable decisions of my life which was so healing for you because you really had no relationship and you kind of assumed like that and care about you. I did not expect that answer but as I bring that up. Now I'm thinking every marriage especially in a in a situation like that comes to a fork in the road where you can make a decision about when it gets harder we get to fight for it or we can we get ended obviously my dad ended it and then regretted it.

You know, years later, and I tell you what we do not want that for you don't want that for any family and obviously that's our mission here family life we want to help marriages families will build godly legacies in one of the tools God's given family life that's been around for generations is what we call the weekend to remember get away where couples come pre-married couples married couples couples been married, decades come to a hotel to a getaway and take from Friday night through Sunday morning a look at their you put energy into your marriage and really leave the weekend with God's game plan. If you have to make it work so that you don't end it guys this is so big because it really did. I feel like it really changed our marriage. It gave us God's blueprint of why he wants us to be married and it will help you thrive. It will help you avoid pitfalls you will experience God's good plan for marriage. I wish my mom and dad, who was gone to one that my to save their marriage but we want to save your marriage and so this is a decision that can literally change your legacy. So here's how you can sign up and if you sign up right now it's half price. Did you hear the half Friday price.

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The remember getaway in any city and I'm Tanya is going to change your life because this is a decision that is critical not just for your marriage, but for your legacy as well and so we get to talk about that today with Tony and Carrie new half and she knows well because she's a divorce attorney in your in your former life right yeah you sat with couples sort of the who are wrestling with that very issue. So you are a book called before you split so I can't wait to hear your perspective because you you're in a marriage to carry but you've also sat and watched couples wrestle with the same kind of questions.

My mom and dad had to wrestle. Yeah so so Carrie and Tony, thanks for being with us back again on family life today. It's great has a lot of inner liner we've been talking earlier this week. Her carrier and author you've been a pastor or podcast or your well-known you guys are church leaders and Tony.

You have a podcast but your podcast called again. It's the smart family podcast and what's it about well help young parents with parenting solutions on marriage advice and basically we want to help people love being home.

That's good, like we all need that. Here's what I did know because I have known Carrie for a little bit I do know you're the magic behind the new house right here Johnny, I know you always know she is living, so my people don't listen to Carrie and Rita stuff, but Tony I didn't know as much about you until we got you know your book before you split it semi-we've had a great conversation talking about your marriage almost ending struggles, you know, bringing baggage, as you call it mud into your marriage and working through that. Today I want to talk about something you wrote in your book and it's really about that fork in the road when a couple is struggling and you know we talked about your struggle.

Our struggle, there is a decision and you call it, you have a choice either split survive or say yes. But those three options, you know, first of all, you can pick either one you want to start with, but as a couple wrestles with that. How do they negotiate what to do and that fork in the road splitting II think is obvious to people because you know we all know someone or maybe we've even gone through a separation ourselves. But I think the part about splitting for people who haven't gone through before themselves that isn't familiar is you know you're having all these struggles with your relationship and it's like you can pack the relationship up in a box and you know, put it out to the roadway and someone will whisk it away and then there that's the problem is done on the issue though if you have kids in particular is that when the day of separation comes, you actually get another box and in that box you have the financial problems in the property division and the parenting schedule and making parenting decisions and then layered underneath that are all the relationship problems that you thought you were putting out to the roadside cell splitting is often a source of disappointment and disillusionment I found for the clients I worked with. If I can just jump in. There's one story you tell that haunts me every time and it was just of a particular client. I'm sure you've heard it more than once, who came in your office and it was a dad. He was in the middle of a messy divorce and everybody gets poorer and everything gets complicated and you think you're going to get access to the kids and it doesn't work out I want things he said he read about this in the book is if I'd known how complicated this would be I would've worked harder on my marriage, and you saw that time and time again as people go old. This is hard, but they don't realize that divorce is harder and so I think that that is been a really powerful motivator for me and made me really grateful that we didn't choose that option but I think for any couple that's on the bubble right now. Yeah, this is hard, but divorce can be harder like it really can be. Do you sorta think it's a solution to a problem in a trilling exchange of problems right yes is a great way to do about it.

I do want to just inject a side note here that there are some families I worked with where they needed to separate to allow healing to happen, you know, in cases where there is safety risks. Where there's violence or substance problem that's out of control. You know that you heaved. I'm sure you come across this cases to Dave where it needs to happen so that people can heal. That's a good point unsafe is totally different than unhappy. Yeah, I'm talking about unhappy marriage is not on the safe marriages but yet you're totally right unhappy marriage like ours was unhappy was really unsafe.

It wasn't harmful on the side of the split decision to divorce her in the marriage as you said, there's his other problems, you may not.

As a parent understand the depth of the consequences. I know that you know obviously my mom and dad split up and I'm 32 years old, a pastor of a church. Now I would say most people probably look at me and our family and say all they got together.

They have a happy family there successful are doing good things and get him sit in on our our couch in our family room. I have a seven-year-old, maybe no. 555 your II get all the drugs and for yeah you know Sunday afternoon. I just got done preaching and him sit there with Dan and there they are planning. I turned to her and I just say these words sorta flippantly. Can you believe my dad left me when I was at age not think anything of it is just a comment at and looks at me and goes, you know you got issues with your dad right Mike, I don't have issues with my dad. You know it's is like. I was so blind to it and she said you are you going to have to someday, forgive me and again it's a long story, and our listeners have heard that probably multiple times here, but I didn't forgive in a week I asked you thought I would get all I I preach the stuff I know Ephesians 432 you will forgive as you been forgiven him to forgive him.

By this weekend for five years later as I go through a process of forgiving, but I don't think my dad a lot of parents ever think about that side of it that this decision to split is going to have fallout that could be decades later that it still be in dealt with, and yet your dad was really abusive. He was an alcoholic and he was physically abusive and so for your mom to pull you guys out. Yeah it was a safety. It was a safety issue. But you're right that baggage the wounds.

There's just that death of the family carries a lot and everyone it's listening that's gone through it. You understand and know that it's not easy is it know and like we talked about the first conversation earlier this week when Tony through that ring down her wedding ring and basically it was an ultimatum that was an incredibly painful moment and there were more painful moments to calm but in our case again unhappy not unsafe. Let's there was an addiction involved. There was an abuse involved. There wasn't an affair involved. There wasn't any of that involved it was just weird and like each other anymore and now like I am so grateful because the joy exceeds at this point, the pain that we had to go through so that's just a little spring of hope for those of you who find yourself in unhappy place rather than an unsafe place, but that split in their save and survive. Yeah.

So start with survive, they are so surviving is I would say staying together in your relationship with your emotions disconnected and this is also a commonplace for couples to end up I know is newlyweds you think know that'll never happen to us by-surveys of church groups before I done marriage talks and that issue that keeps rising to the top is feeling disconnected or lack of intimacy. So like roommates your room and you really like other inmates are feeling like Karen eyes like family business contract that we can to remember marriage getaway. We call it emotional isolation, yes, that's another great way to describe it and for anyone who's listening right now to maybe sees themselves in that position in their marriage. First thing I want to say is don't panic. It doesn't mean that your marriage is over and I think that's what I've seen in specially in my client practices that you know people say, well, the love is gone. So it's over, you know once the love is gone. What what is there left and you know that's just not the way it has to be. We had reached the point where I wondered whether it was even possible for me to be in love with Carrie again and an item is ridiculous. They absolutely now it would then II would have missed out on so much.

If I'd followed those feelings out the door and so yeah there's ways that you can rebuild your connection even if you feel like it's broken right now. It's so interesting because right now were in an era you guys have read this that there are more people getting divorced.

Once their kids are gone because they're probably thinking I've been living in this isolation. I've been living at weakest and surviving wanted to survive anymore. Our kids are gone and so I'm gonna go find life why people are living longer and they feel younger older like I'm in my 50s and I'm like I actually think I feel physically better than I did when I was in my 20s. Yeah right like I don't know what that is. So there is that idea the life was over a 50 or 60, and now people are going well. If I got three or four decades left, right, and then you're looking at the stranger in the house that you don't like any. And you're right.

When the youngest goes to college.

The divorce rate spikes and there's this part of me that thinks all man. You guys have already put in his knees, 25, 30 years you know you cannot go through this and this is what I say.

If you get remarried and this doesn't happen every time, but every married still goes through that reality phase of you have to go through another crisis you have to learn how to love each other. You have to learn about the other person's baggage actuations going to go normal. That's what's expected and that's what happens in a marriage.

So I'm like me, don't just survive. You can get out of that pit because as you guys. I thought there's no getting out of that pit. This is just where we are but you really are offering you're saying now there's hope you've been there. Yes, there are very practical ways to rebuild that connection, and it doesn't have to be a mystery. And that's part of what I what I tackle is one of the reasons that I was really motivated to write and then beyond driving yeah is the option of saving so saving your marriage is reaching the place where you feel Karen saying that you have each other's backs. You are deeply satisfied and you do you have that connection. Now I want to say about saving your marriage is that it's possible is still possible to go from surviving to saving and surviving in your marriage for a temporary period while you work on rebuilding your connection and seeing what you can do to rekindle the love that you obviously did share at one point in time is Eddie in my opinion absolutely possible saving in recovery for us was like a multiyear process.

We decided to survive, not split and then you know it took a few years but it's it's interesting you know those thinking about this what you're talking Tony I've only broke my hand once and that was about six months ago and you break your thumb, I was skiing.

It really hurts.

I had never broken anything. I had a cast. I had to have surgery, plastic surgery, three pins inserted into my hand and I kind of things that I was pretty like overwhelming you thought about it day and night and it was really painful.

But now I'm at the point where 99% of the day.

I've forgotten that I broke my thumb a few months ago and every once in a while I go to grab something I'm like oh yeah, hurts. I think that's what it's like, like at first it's really painful. Everything is work. There's a lot of skills there's a lot of cave counselor told us to do this we should do this intimacy is shared experiences we should do a hobby together.

Okay, will do all be together but eventually becomes a way of life and just enjoyable.

Not every once in a while you're like oh yeah that hand was broken at one point in but you have to forget about 90% of the time unloads that metaphor ring true Tony yeah I think as far as the pain goes in that acute.

Where you know EEE you know that you need to get out of this painful version of your marriage but you know you don't know exactly what these next steps look like and you have any guarantee that it's gonna work. Frankly, in the in that phase it's so important to actually leave yourself the margin and make up your mind that this is actually going to take your energy time and probably some resources, you know, probably some money if you're going into counseling, you know, chances are you'll need to invest in that and deciding that okay this is worth that I am going to build that extra time into my calendar on because it's not something that you can just force into the margins of your life and expect it to work very well yeah you have to make it a priority. It's kinda like if you're sick, you are a broken leg. You've got to put the splint on her.

The cast on or get the crutches out and you've got to do some work to rehab that I love the. The research you cite in your book from Melinda weight without a team of they studied 645 unhappily married spouses and they studied at the beginning and five years later, my get this right and just said yes you know couples that got divorce compared to couples that fought for their marriage in 50% of the ones that fought for so were happier now than we ever were and never thought would be this happy and only 19% of the divorce couple said were happier so I mean you read some like that you like wow it really is worth fighting for.

You know it's gonna be hard it's going to it's can be costly. It might take everything I got but it's worth that you can actually get that you guys are living example you're in a place that's better yet would be like our yeah we would to yeah and it's cheaper than divorce like a good counselor is cheaper than a good divorce lawyer or divorce. It's just going to be expensive and listen as a pastor. When I sat in that seat for 20 years I talked to couples who had problems and the number one thing that would say is we don't of money for counselor Billy and or we don't have money for date night like I wish I could get some of those days back I we had a fund that would help them but it's like yes this is an investment like an investment actually has a return in the return that we have. I'm not talking about money, but just in terms of joy and happiness and actual friendship. One of the things about you know this coronavirus pandemic. We been through is my goodness you better like the person you're locked down with and we have three meals a day. I'm not on the road anymore like we never run out of things to talk about were not that couple sitting at a restaurant who was three words for each other over the dinner you know we develop that best friend.

We have some habits that we've implemented and strategies that have helped us with that yet you have yet some tips that I thought were really good and the number one tip was avoid the blame and shame gain. That's a good talk about that, blame and shame, I can't even think of a couple that I worked with where blame wasn't a part of what was going on and now I have to say that between Carrie and I absolutely we were stuck in that trap of blame and it is like it's all her fault.

It's all his fault and even for people who say well I know I'm not perfect. I have some weaknesses. They still have the underlying belief that well. 95% of the blame rests with my step yes maybe 5% of it is mine and and having that I call it a victim story mentality and so not a victim in the sense of unsafe or are violence or anything but just that that victim narrative that puts me in the posture of being helpless and I like to describe it is putting on a pair of glasses that are wrong for you that victim story narrative becomes a lens that you look into your relationship through and it causes this blurriness that prevents you from seeing the nuances in the details, and most importantly your own role. Yeah like what it is that you're contributing. And so the effort to ditch those victim story glasses is so so important just to take the posture of becoming making it your pursuit to become more self-aware and even to open yourself up before God and ask for the light of Christ to eliminate whatever it is that I'm bringing to this mess that were in right now thought that came to my mind as you are finishing. That was how you watch a sporting event and afterwards there's a big loss, but the coach comes up and goes yeah it was on me. It's it's my fault you know he just takes it takes the blame. He's probably thinking all you noticed other people that I thought well, what would happen if we did that, as spouses like I just want you know I can only miss I have not been great at this and I'm really sorry. I want to apologize. I'm owning it. I think that would go a long way and I think just to say like the Lord that takes some humbleness of going before the heavenly father and saying I'm owning this and I'm gonna get a say Lord what do I need to do. I think that's a big thing a big prayer requires a question for you if I want to save our marriage and my spouse isn't interested. What you do. I like the answer that I believe Dr. Gary Chapman gave to this kind of question where he said what is it that you can do for a defined period of time that is different from what you've done in the past. So I think sometimes spouse checks out because it has just been too painful. And maybe there are unresolved grievances and there's just real heaviness in the relationship that is shutting them down, but if there was something change that dynamic. For example, I'm I just want to tell a story about what happened with us when we were starting to get out of the really tough years of our marriage in one day Carrie and I were having this argument. I remember it clearly and he stopped in the middle of it and he came over and he looked at me in my eyes and said that's it. You deserve someone who cherishes you and from now on I am committing to be that one who cherishes the file and it was a game stop or at the time because it was completely different from how are arguments had been going down in that vicious cycle of conflict where typically Carrie would pursue me and try to resolve the problem and I would withdraw and we'd end up in tears and heated but this was completely different and it was, and more importantly, I think it was a different posture that Carrie was really committing himself to and it didn't start to change the trajectory of our relationship. Well done Carrie – I hear that story Karen I'm like wow you're the man dude way to go.

You know what it was. I remember that moment and I know you're arguing about, but I remember thinking because I had talked to a couple of friends or move or talk to my mom and dad once about you know Tony and are not getting along.

We were not air your dirty laundry in public. While it's going on kind of people but usually of the inner circle and I was getting feedback from a few people. My mom included, who is like you know Tony is really an awesome person you are not seeing things correctly and I had a couple of friends. Give me the kind of feedback to and so she's happy whatever you are at me about that day on I was at you. Whatever I was about but but I thought about it objectively, just how many men would love to be married to this woman and and then I thought just be that guy and I couldn't emotionally in that moment be that guy, but I could go over to her and say hey I'm sorry you actually deserve, because Tony's a good person. She's a false one or two very small blemishes, but I'm head over heels in love with her today but like about time on just what you deserve someone who cherishes you, and I thought myself I hope I can be that guy and I think most days I am now which is great and the feelings come back right when your emotions catch up to your obedience.

So if you're saying but the spark is gone, which you are a thousand times at your number one complaint.

We thought we started surveying couples to be like were fighting about Monte Sachs.

It's like parenting parenting is like now we just don't. I don't feel anything for many more. It's like listen your motions catch up to your obedience so I knew the video thing to do would be to deal with my own junk try to love my wife as Christ loved the church try to be that guy who cherished her and didn't take 15 years, but here we are 15 years later and like yeah we we are having a good time and a great time to the point where we do actually say to each other.

If it gets a whole lot better. On the other side of heaven. I don't know what that would be because this is pretty amazing and that's sober moments, but there moments and you know and intimacy shared experience. I will contribute to the solution side find things you love to do together when you were dating.

There was stuff you did. You went to movies together. You hung out with friends together. You both campfire together in the backyard you went hiking in the mountains. I don't whatever you did you know you enjoyed it and we have found since her kids left home and they were both independent equipment huge amount of time together and rather than building separate lives. Tony does a few friends I have a few friends but rather building separate lives like we just found a whole bunch of stuff we enjoy doing together shared experiences and that's what intimacy is, what are some hobbies were some fun things you can do together so we hiked we cycle together were boaters Tony for 30th anniversary. Tony wanted canoe and was one of those expenses that thing okay great and I'm like now you have to go canoeing and I think I said to you. This is something I'm getting this for you having to pay for. This is something you do with your friends and I want them like okay I'll go canoeing with you and you know what I like to know I like you but I really enjoy it and now that's one more thing we can add to a life-giving activity that we really enjoy together. And you know your life is full of those experiences together with your kids with your friends and like there is a deep and authentic friendship that you just can't replicate them you got three decades plus into this one. You can't manufacture that overnight someone else. That's really good you guys. I like ending that that your emotions will catch up with your obedience that I thought you know what you just illustrated for us is when you know the book of Revelation.

I dove Carrie Fry preach this. I have as well. When Jesus says to the churches lost their first love was he told to do exactly what you just said. He says repent and do the things you did at first.

So repents a new posture. I'm not going to do things I did a guy can we do this differently and do the things you did at first a man when you were dating when you're fallen in love you.

Probably doing those things go back and bring that energy back in your marriage and watch where goes and then we get to sit here and listen to you go. You're more in love now than you were 20 years ago and nobody thinks that's possible and it is and it's it's it's literally God can do that and we would say that to you and the guy who's thinking of leaving like your dinner date.

This new person you really go out with why don't you put all that energy into your current relationship.

Why don't you treat her like you did at the beginning, and things will start to change or for leaders water you put all the energy you put into work while you take some of that and put that same level of intentionality in your home life.

It's going to get better and I would just say this. Thank you guys for for being so honest and leaving all of us on a journey to a place where God wants us to be. It's been incredible. Thanks for being my test has been incredible adding to you Dave. I think maybe the key word and what they will and will slip in talking with.

Tony knew off about today is the word intentional word that they just used most of us get to a season in our marriage where we put our relationship on the back burner. It's on autopilot. It's supposed to just home along fine in the background without any attention or maintenance or care and just like everything else in your house there's going to come a day when that thing that you pat on autopilot is go breakdown, we have to take care of our marriage. We have to invest and we have to be intentional and that's one of the reasons why there are couples I know who every year make a point to attend a family life we can to remember merge get what it's marriage maintenance.

It's their 2 1/2 day escape where they can focus on their relationship and one another and get some of the dust and cobwebs out of the relationship and freshen things up a bit. I mentioned that because were about to launch the fall season of getaways we got about 30 events happening in cities all across the country this fall. And right now if you register to attend an upcoming getaway.

You'll save 50% off the regular registration fee that offer is good through Monday, so there is no better time than today for you to go to our website. Family life today.com. Find out more about the getaway. Find out what is coming to a city near where you live and register online or call to register one 800, FL, today is the number 1-800-358-6329 take advantage of the savings and then getaway this fall for 2 1/2 days and focus on your marriage had a family life weekend. Remember marriage getaway give me questions call us or go online to family life today.com and the information is available there. We hope to see you at an upcoming getaway and don't forget Tony's book which is called before you split. Find out what you really want for the future of your marriage for those who are at a point where your thinking maybe this is over.

Maybe this marriage can't be saved.

The book before you split is the book to read before you make that final decision. You can order it from us on one@familylifetoday.com or you can call to order one 800, FL, today is our number one 803 586-329-1800 F is in family L as in life, and then the word today now tomorrow working to hear about a movie that is opening in theaters this weekend. The latest movie from the Kendrick brothers. It's a documentary about fatherhood. It's a powerful film and Alex and Stephen Kendrick join us tomorrow to tell us all about hope could be with us for that as well on behalf of her hosts David and Wilson on Bob Lapine. We will see you back next time for another edition of family life to the family life crew ministry helping you pursue the relationships matter most