Trauma and Truth

Somebody think had at the pandemic and all the hard in 2020. This the entire year. What he think was one of the best things that you did, or that we did anything work out well that you thought I'm glad this happened the last thing I ever thought I do ever.

Regardless whether it's in a pandemic or not it was go to a counselor. Why might he think he would never do that.

You have a no. I just thought I'm good to know.

Welcome to family life today where we want to help you pursue the relationships that matter most and Wilson Dave Wilson and you can find us if it we live today.com or on our family life.

This is family life today.

The last thing I ever thought I'd do was go to a counselor there was a lot of stuff. I just had never really dealt with, and because of those sort of slowdown in ministry. There was this window and because of some hurt that I went through a Mike I need to talk to somebody.

Why do you say it was one of the best things that can be scary. It's hard and you would admit that you hate dealing with conflict. I run from her all things, and even when I jumped on my motorcycle and rode five hours over to sit down with Greg. I was not excited as like this is gonna and five hours later, after first sort of half-day member. I came home like there is so much that God wants to draw out of me. I wish I'd done this 30 years ago but I'm doing it now so I'm going to do it now and go do it well.

Which is interesting because we've had conflict in our marriage just a little bit.

We all have conflict in our marriages yeah and ditto the truth is we all need outside help.

It could be counseling like I did recently, but it could be going to a conference on me.

We went to the we can remember we still speak for the weekend to remember and that was one of the best things we ever did for America.

Oh yeah, I think it saved us. Here's a great thing there there back the weekend remembers her back all around the country and their half price right now you hear me half price so you go okay right now to a conference near you just go to family life today.com sign up for. We can remember anywhere you want go for half-price and I'm telling you God will literally change maybe save your marriage and he'll make your good marriage even better. And I know for us.

We almost didn't make it and that wasn't just you, that was me as well because we both carried so much baggage and so many expectations entire marriage and I don't think he would have said that you needed that in the past. Again, I was in denial. Yeah it all and so it's interesting we have Lisa Turkish with us today who writes in your latest book a little bit about your journey. That was very similar in terms of you set down some way that opens up something so I can't wait to hear what you talked about, collect, connect and correct the dots is a beautiful way to say it, Lisa. Welcome back to family life today. Thank you so much. I love this dialogue. I can just sit here and listen to this dialogue so carry on the sooner I got there a message.

Note that about now I'm thinking your normal so refreshing. I'm really glad days like I think our kids. I feel like for you to make that step in the counseling.

I feel like our sons really respected that and watch that in you and they were excited to hear what was revealed and what God was revealing that because I sought their whole life.

Like all now finally dead see in some of the stuff but Lisa has written on book called forgiving. What you can't forget in the subtitle is discovering how to move on. Make peace with painful memories and create a life that's beautiful again.

I think even just reading that and hearing that subtitle think we all resonate with that and want that many of you have heard of Lisa.

She's the president of Proverbs 31 ministries. How would you describe Proverbs 31 ministries so our guess if you would say our tagline are a really are deriving mission is we want people to know the truth and live the truth because it changes everything. So we are very passionate about solid theologically researched, biblically sound doctrine, where very committed to truth, uncompromising truth and at the same time.

Never stripping humanity from the divinity of the text. There is such a gracious gift in the Bible and that is that God didn't tidy up humans that were so very real and it's funny, I was teaching about Jacob's family line and getting into the story of Joseph starting in Genesis 37 and right from the beginning.

It's so apparent that there was extreme family dysfunction, and if you've ever heard of Jacob in the Bible. He produces through his heirs. The 12 tribes of Israel.

It's fascinating to me. You would deftly consider him and his clan a very biblical family right yes and yet his family was riddled with dysfunction and so I've always thought you had to be perfectly biblical family, but I'm starting to realize the more I study billable families that dysfunction is just part of it. And if we were all honest we could sit in a room of 100 people and pass the microphone around and we could say okay here you tell about your family dysfunction you tell about your family dysfunction and you forgot to someone that said no I have no family dysfunction. Well, they are probably the source of the family dysfunction is so interesting that so true and so healthy. I was with a group of women not too long ago there were quite a few of us and I noticed that some really opened up and when one person opens up to reveal the inner turmoil or the doubts or the pain or the depression and what happens is other women feel the safety but then why haven't we done that and why don't we do that often. When I think we have to be careful to you know we aren't labeling the individual as a dysfunctional toxic person because that can be a very heavy hard insurmountable kind of label to put on a person, but when you get humans together who all have pain and who all have unresolved hurts in their life and we all have this none of us are perfect when you bring a bunch humans together is just inevitable. My pain is gonna bump into your pain and my unhealed hurt is going to bump into your unhealed hurt and that's just the way it works. So when I say dysfunction is not labeling individuals as dysfunction all it's saying that the function of human relationships has to be worked on and there has to be intentionality there and counseling is a great intentional step to take my counselors name is Jim Kress he's a phenomenal individual, but he always says what is not worked out will be acted out.

It's like we gotta work out and work through our staff and learn how to apply not just sound emotional healing principles, but sound biblical holes so Proverbs 31. We combine these worlds, we combine the world's getting emotionally healthy and spiritually healthy together and we present it all with sound theology and with absolute transparency and authenticity that were not speaking because were the experts were speaking out of our own need and we just know it'll help other people to I think that's what resonates with so many women is because we feel we can have the knowledge in our heads that we still feel stuck so often and were trying to figure out how do I get out of this and I think that you really offer hope through Jesus and through theology in the Bible, which I love that combination that I found it very interesting as I was reading your book.

There's a part of me and I'm sure a lot of people, and I've I've felt this is a pastor that people, even in our church when in and I would get up on stage and share our our struggles and we were very honest they still thought you really throw not like us because you're a pastor or new right for you. Don't struggle anymore use to but not anymore. They don't believe it's as bad as what their struggle is I don't know if that what you've expressed, but when I was reading your book on Mike we sent her stone struggling reader she's a world renowned leader ministry. I so you know is we've Artie talked about your struggle to forgive and the betrayal and the pain I mean, you're so honest Mike Wolf.

She's writing in a way that this is not covered up. She could barely function and then you get this whole section of book I just was like my journey as last year's like why don't you know will collect the dots connect the dots corrected God's means so tells about that because that was fascinating to watch your past into your present and how it influenced you, and I think this can really help people understand who they are and why that why we live the way we live in the present. If we we need to go back and do some work to understand what's going on. So help us do it so I'll tell you a little bit more of an extensive exercise that I did.

I didn't covered in the book but does chapters mean more to you not to hear even more of the activity that my counselor helped me work through and also when I sit down to write up but I know more than being taught my reader wants to be understood and to the level that they know I've experienced a depth of pain that similar to their depth of pain that's to the level that the trust my advice and some of my favorite words from Jesus in the Bible are from Mark chapter 14, it's this profound moment where Jesus perfect in his divinity. Absolute sinless in his humanity and at the same time because he was wrapped in the skin and the emotions of a human. He knew what it felt like to be betrayed, he knew what it felt like to be abandoned. He knew what it felt like to experience the grit and grime of some of the harsh realities of doing life here on earth.

He says my soul is overwhelmed with sorrow to the point of death, and then he even acknowledges that everything is possible for you. Take this cup from me and that so mind blowing to me. But you see, because I know that Jesus knows the depth of human pain. My soul is overwhelmed to the point of death. Muscles are woman's sorrow to the point of death, because I know that he has experienced the depth of what it feels like to be in that kind of pain and sorrow I can trust Jesus is teaching in Hebrews 2 when we are told that Jesus came to make atonement for our sins. Yes we all talk about that, but what we miss is it also says he came to be a merciful and faithful high priest and it's out of his mercy that I believe he took on the weight of humanity to make atonement and to be able to lead us not void of understanding what it's like to be so very human when I got into the middle part of the book.

I start off forgetting what you can't forget talking a lot about the resistance that I had that had to be dealt with and had to be acknowledged. I didn't want to fake it until I tried to make it with the forgiveness book so you know that one of the early chapters of is about me standing there slamming my door as I was so angrily at talk about that a little hand. There was a delivery woman standing on my front porch I never saw her I was just trying to get out like I'd I need to slam something I need to break something. I'm not typically I'm a pretty peaceful person but I had just gotten triggered an enormous amount of pain and I just had to get it out some staying there opening my door slamming my door open my door slamming my door and all of a sudden because there's glass on the front of the door. I looked through and the delivery lady is sitting there and she was a slight well and she sets the package down and like scurries off to her truck and I wanted to chase her down sand. Can I get you a cookie.

I'm so sorry, that was not directed at you.

But then I thought nobody wants a cookie made by a person. I guess I'll just let that sit right there should probably write me a letter and said I read one of your books and that I will meet you and there you were slamming your front gave me that you say like you've experienced. By having thinking you've had countless nights in your bed at night crying yes the worst hours for me were between 2 and 4 AM because it's really too late to call anyone and it's too early to call anyone and it's so dark outside and the intensity of aloneness in those hours is just brutal. So I would often just pray this prayer while I was just crying and just thinking this is too painful to survive one more minute. How in the world am I gonna survive 24 hours or 24 days or 240 days or possibly the next 24 years like this is your overwhelmed I'm overwhelmed said the prayer I would pray is I don't know much right now.

But here's what I do know Jesus, I love you and you left me and that just has to be enough for right now.

I think this is true. I don't know if men do this, but those hours for a woman we've all been there where you're awake he can't go back to sleep because your overwhelmed with fear or sadness or regret. It's the loneliness, those at the loneliest hours in the night. Those are not just women hours really think I know for women like that big, but I love the simplicity and yet the power that you just that I would just say done that many times it may be a different thing. I'm struggling with. But the thing you are very honest as well. The sooner book that I've experienced on. I know every listener if they're seriously honest, would say the same thing. Part of the struggle is even though you say I know I love you Jesus you love me. There's a struggle. Where are you. Why aren't you doing something. What is you don't so talk about that because that was a real struggle for you and know it's been for all of us. How do you deal with this trouble going back to Mark chapter 14 when Jesus was in the garden and he is uttering those words. My soul is overwhelmed to the point of death.

Muscles are woman's sorrow to the point of death. I was thinking that if answers of why this is happening would give comfort.

Jesus had all the answers, and he was still overwhelmed with sorrow to the point of death. If seeing how everything turned out eventually would bring the deep comfort.

Jesus said that he could see everything is gonna turned out for the joy set before me endured the cross, if being perfect would have comforted Jesus.

Jesus was perfect. He was sinless, had no regrets, no regrets, and yet he still uttered those words, muscle is overwhelmed start to the point of death, and so I realize it's not attaining something or it's not even figuring out something that will bring that kind of comfort it's acknowledging what is true in the midst of being uncertain about everything else.

When I said that prayer Jesus, I love you and you love me and that just has to be enough.

It wasn't because I felt it is because my soul needed to hear my mouth.

Declarant and they are in was the comfort because that is, was and will forever be true, and I think when you've been hurt because you've been abandoned or even betrayed or you've been lied to. I think your mind goes in the hyperdrive.

If that wasn't true. What else is not true. And so you can hyper analyze everything and everyone in trying to figure out who can I trust and who can I not so.

It was my declaration that Jesus knows what it feels like in this dark hour of the night, and he has promised to be there for me and I don't have to feel it, to know that is true. I just have to declare it to remind myself it is true we so what would you to say to the people in our thinking. I have prayed so long about God doing something I doubt that he loves me because I haven't seen him answer this prayer that I've been praying for 10 years before, so I would say I am so sorry that that hurts and I get it and I had same thing in my life. Even right now I have something I have prayed and prayed and prayed and prayed and wrestled like God everything is possible for you who change this plan. I've even spent years making suggestions and stick like okay got your really busy so here's what happened. You could do here is to get it right and I say that kinda tongue-in-cheek, but I mean honestly, I have and yet here's what I know to be true.

If I always limit the good that God could possibly do to the outcomes of my own thinking. I have drastically reduce the goodness of God down to my very imperfect human brain and Jesus also acknowledges this in his dark hour of the night right before he's arrested and he said that everything is possible for you.

Take this cup from me. But then he utters nine earthshaking hell, shattering demon quaking words yet not what I will but what you will. In other words, I think when we are wrestling with. Why is God answering this prayer. I've done all the right things. I've checked all the boxes like I've been obedient so I should be blessed. You know, or God. This other person over here just got that blessing and I could give you a list of reasons why they absolutely should not of gotten the blessing like the GPS coordinates get confused here, you know, and it can just make you go in a million different directions when you're wrestling through the why God questions so wet I've just had to train my brain is to say God is gonna work good from this somehow. It's probably not gonna be in my way is probably not to be in my timing but I have got to make my brain not run ahead write out a script of the good that God should do and then try to hold God accountable to outcomes of my own desire. While instead daily, I have to trade my will for that I will become so confident he will and it opens up the possibilities for the goodness of God, way beyond what I could ever think or dream up. And honestly, no human should have to carry the weight of being their own God. But so many of us work our emotions into a tangled framework our fingers to the bone trying to do just that. It's like we say we trust God until we don't and so I'm training my brain to do this, it doesn't come naturally and it is hard, but I do want to get back to you. Also, the question you ask about connecting the dots collecting the dots correcting the dots and what that really means is that we need to take an honest assessment of the things that we been through in our life.

Start making connections of how those circumstances and events traumas that we face how they have set a perception about how we look at ourselves, how we look at God and how we look at others and if there are wrong perceptions, taking an honest look at them. That's our opportunity to correct those perceptions because the perspectives we have determines what we see and what we see is often what we will follow and what we will use to guide and direct our life.

Here's an example the activity that my cancer had me do was called a traumatic side drew egg on a big piece of posterboard a divided egg up in the bunch little squares and then my counsel, Jim said draw a little stick figures in individual components, divide that egg shape up into lots of little squares and any time that you have been traumatized or abused or rejected something really hard, even sexual abuse, physical abuse, emotional abuse any time that happened, pops into your brain. From the time of your earliest memory into present day. Draw a little stick figure pictures inside the squares and represent that in some way. While I'm not an artist and I dreaded this activity that I did it the next session. Jim had me stand in front of him and talk about those individual squares and what Jim was listening for is some kind of shame.

Script that I have carried because of what I've been through that was not just formed in intensity but is living out in intensity in my life right now and is changing my perspective about something which is then couldn't change how I think and how I live today and as I went through and described my little components what Jim heard as my pervasive shame script is Lisa, don't be an inconvenience. You are an inconvenience. Say you need to always make sure that you never asked too much from people because it will set you up for disappointment. Every time, and he heard that repeated in my story when I stood up and I was describing all these events he heard it. I could have never heard it. I would have never had the awareness that I have navigated my life so much in navigated relationship. So much so that I would make sure I'm never an inconvenience to someone, thus preventing a depth of bonding when people actually want to do something for me and it has affected me more than what I cared to realize and so I had to collect those thoughts put them together. Connect the dots and now I can work on correcting the dots and now when I start to hear that shame script. I recognize what it is. It's a lie that's coming against who I really am. I'm wired for connection, but I was preventing connection so many times because of the shame script and I'm working on correcting that so that I can have more authentic relationships with people and actually let people do some stuff for me every now and then.

That's powerful and Dave. That's kind of what we did when we went County and went with me to see Greg in the very similar in terms of he was very gifted at identifying the script for both of us and then hoping to see the truth when replacing that lie was truthful with you. This isn't just one counseling session, it's Leo you live this out now my biggest one was you gotta perform to be accepted to go perform to be good for God for people you known everything about my life as you know I'm in the limelight to perform obvious, it is not the gospel of the Gospels. He died for that soon, and I don't have to perform. But you know you take all that you know and I think it's such a healthy exercise for anybody to go through and one of certain hearsay to go to go see a counselor today or tomorrow, but that journey whatever way you do it to collect look at your past connect the dots of that and then replace the destructive emotions and destructive behaviors that you're doing in your life. Presently that's connected to some of the past needs to be replaced with roof even in being able to say what you said earlier early so that Jesus said, not my will, your will be done. I often struggle to say that because I didn't trust the father because I couldn't trust my earthly father and I was alive.

My heavenly father is not my dad didn't work out so it at the end of the day in 2 AM or 3 AM I can go back to sleep as I can so I guess what those life this father loves me, he is here for me. I may not feel it. I may not even believe it.

100%, but it's true and I'm going to go to sleep because I can say going to do whatever you asked me to do hers. It is not my will, your will be done.

Please take care of me and he will will I don't know if we realize it or not, but there is a connection between our relationship with God, our spiritual lives. How were doing spiritually and our relationships with one another before continuing to harbor bitterness or anger or hatred for someone if we have not work through the process of releasing those things and pursuing forgiveness and reconciliation.

That's going to affect everything about your life and about your relationship with God. They blend willfully been talking this week with Lisa Kirk first was written a book on the subject from her own experience. The book is called forgiving.

What you can't forget Discover how to move on to make peace with painful memories and how to create a life that's beautiful. This is a book we got in our family look to the resource Center you can go on why the family like today.com to request a copy or call one 800 FL today. Again, the website is family life today.com, the number to call is one 803 586-329-1800 F as in family L as in life, and the word today. I will resave the issues of anger and bitterness on forgiveness. These are issues that will show up from time to time at our weekend. Remember, marriage getaways couples were coming who are locked up in conflict who are experiencing pain in the relationship and they need help and guidance to know how to pursue oneness with one another when there has been profound hurt in the marriage relationship.

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Remember on our website. Family life today.com call if you have any questions, one 800, FL, today is the number, so plan to join us of the upcoming getaways and register today because the 50% off special offer warmaking is available through Monday, September 13 so there's a limited time for you to take advantage of the special pricing again go. I'm on a family like today.com for more information call to register one 803 586-329-1800 F as in family L as in life than the word today, not tomorrow will consider the relationship between forgiveness and trust because are connected with or not the same.

That's important for us to understand Lisa Kirk first joins us again tomorrow. We hope you can join us as well on behalf of our hosts David M. Wilson. I'm Bob Lapine. See you back tomorrow for another edition of family life today. We like today is family life helping you pursue the relationships that matter most