Dating Done Right

Marshall Siegel remembers thinking that the girl he was getting to know Mike be the one for him. That's when he decided it was time for the DPR. The define the relationship conversation sat down and there was the two of us having coffee and I'd had laid out my feelings for her and I was feeling confident about. Things were going well. We were talking on the phone once a week or so for 30 minutes is going super well the day went great and so I thought she'd say yes I would like to be pursued by you and I'm really enjoying get to know you I like you like to pursue you toward marriage and she said have also been enjoying you to know you. I really enjoyed our conversations and she said you're a very nice human being and I might like this that this is family life today. Our hosts are Dave and Ann Wilson. I'm Bob Lapine you can find us online in family life today.com so what you do as a single young man attempting to define a relationship only to find out that where the relationship is going is not where you thought it ought to be going to hear more about that today from Marshall single stimulus and welcome to family life today.

Thanks for joining us so you know what the path is today from meat and fall in love to marriage. Here's the path I want to hear this, you you meet you date you have sex you think this might be the one you have kids you move in together you get married. I think you missed one about what I'm going to say he meet you have sex you determine if you want to date, while I think that's very true today. WI think it's a sadly popular way to rush.

That's that's not how was 50 years ago now just in case a by others wondering we didn't do it that way right and we didn't do it and here's the thing. There are people who grow up today in the church and think that's how it's supposed to work because they watch multiple episodes of friends or whatever else and they just they go.

This is how life is supposed to be well were here to say that's not the path God has outlined and Marshall Siegel is joining us again this week to talk about this Marshall welcome back.

Things have you Marshall written a book called not yet married, we've already explained why, that's an acceptable title for his book had.

He is a writer and managing editor of desiring God.org so let's say were talking today to somebody who has just gone out last night on a date with somebody and they had a nice time in their thinking and not it would be nice to go out again and and maybe just in the back there. My maybe there's something here and I kinda like there to be something here I think.

But I don't know him well enough, but I think so your coaching them to get from where they are to where they'd like to go, so coach what's the next play Juergen a call for this couple. Yeah, what I have questions about how they met in the first place. And today that happens all kinds of ways like technologies okay so they met on eHarmony. That's different than if they met in church. Yes I think so intent on what size churchmen for 5000 person search that may not mean very much for your hundred percent church that would mean a lot. I guess my main my main questions would be around how much do you know of this person already before.

Your Internet is important to know before you go out I think so. I would say I would want to weigh slow down any seriousness in terms of a room, a romantic relationship until you had an opportunity to get to know this person and I would say that the online element seems to company that some just because you meet people who you may not amend any other way than a partner from groupings of that.

So if it was me counting a particular person in my life or in my church.

I would want them if they meet somebody online.

For instance, I would want them to be as creative and intentional as possible to try to fold that person into community so it's not just we went on on the date we had a good time for me to do a second one.

Secondly, well we can do 1/3 one in all this is in the context of a one on one totally isolated from any other meaningful relationship. I want to encourage them find ways as awkward as it might feel today. Find ways to fold them into some meaningful community within your life or in their life mean if they're believers and they have a solid family and church community and from group find ways to really get each other in less pressured situations than one on one dates and to start to do activities together but in your group setting. Yeah I would say at least with other people. I know this can be tricky so not pretending this is when I've been through this kind of process in the past relationships is not easy. It can be awkward but hopefully the kind of person that you're dating and maybe one day will Mary will respect the fact that you're saying I don't know you very well yet.

I think the most important step here in in terms of determining whether God might be doing something. Here is for us to get to know each other little bit. I want to get to know you as an honor to want to have someone want to I want to do it in ways that honor you now and I hope that anyone I'm talking to.

If a process I mentioned that then like this. Clearly the work which is fine but I want to honor you the best I can and I think it can be honoring to you if we don't isolate off spend all of our times. The two of us so I did this with Faye were 2829. She's from California so nothing is more awkward than trying to full somebody in long distance but we prioritize every single trip we spent as much time as possible with the most important people in each other's lives, so we planned out before hand were to spend time with my best friend with my parents with those people I'm doing ministry with she can become the small group when she's in town's is long distance but in in city it gets a bit easier but just thinking intentionally and talking intensive how to fold other people in the committee so the principle that a consumer in the book is I want to encourage someone, generally pursue clarity and postpone intimacy. That's the main principle I want talk about and I talked to help out.

Intimacy is safest in the context of marriage and marriage can be safest in the context of clarity and so if you are wanting to pursue intimacy with this person.

The best thing you can do is pursue clarity about whether God is calling you to marry this person. I think a lot of people, myself included, pursued clarity by diving and intimacy. Let's try it and see how it feels. A talk about thinking that's like a bicycle she's picked up a bicycle and you don't how to write it, and no one can coach you through this incident. You just keep get on the bike until it stayed up now I can get married and and II describe the book more like flying an airplane which I don't have an expense with but if you if you look to the process of what it what becoming a pilot as you do so much before you ever actually sit in the seat and I want people to think about dating and marriage that way more that is intentional steps is pilot knows I want to fly a plane. I cannot do any of these classes are this training for something else is not preparing for anything else of preparing me for marriage.

But thinking about small steps to pursue clarity to get to know each other and to postpone intimacy as much as possible and so I think fully other people in the community and then being aware of how much time we spend together what kinds of things we talk about being sensitive to light all that's intimate so I don't think you should be talking about what marriage might be like on your second or third day. I think that's a talk about this is what I'm looking for Geico into that kind of conversation I think you have a conversation.

I'm not sure how helpful it is on the first or second or third date. I would be a lot more focused on who are you write what you love what you spend your time doing. Who are the most important people in your life.

I can think of a thousand questions that I would ask before yes what you looking for and why do I measure up.

What do you like me what you declare as a as a guy on a second or third date. Would you say to somebody I just want you to know from an intentionality standpoint I'm not recreationally dating I am dating with marriage as a potentiality is not an inevitability but this odds. I'd like to pursue this seriously rather than casually absolute as a first date and I would say do not to be this major declaration of independence I just say I like to get to know you better. Any dating I do is for the purpose of discovering who gonna call me to Mary. That doesn't mean that we have to get married because we go on a date. It just means that I want you to know from the outset. I'm pursuing clarity towards whether God called me to marry you or not we did for 19 months.

So it's not like that process happens in four weeks or six weeks or two months. In fact, I think some people need to take more time because they they rush into engagement and marriage before they really had a chance to get to know each other. I do like this idea because you really are becoming friends and so much of marriage is about friendship and being together, and like each other's company and having fun together. That's not always the case when you're dating. It's so romantic it's it's feels a little delusional in some way.

And yet I think about Dave and I he is my best friend. We had the perfect date right here is no asking this because your time at the group, community friend thing and then everything you talk about now you're sort of alone.

What is the balance because I know me I would be pulling her away.

Although I I know that if I'm within with the group I get to see all those things you're looking for. I see that probably better in community, but then it requires some real time where I'm not with my friends and were looking Ida, I am soon I want to get to know your heart. I want to know your passion for Christ. How do you balance that yes if if I had a daughter. I don't have a daughter if you were talking that way on a second date to my daughter I would say brother slow down you don't need to look at dating her that way.

You may, I know you're eager II can see that you love the Lord and unthankful and I see all kinds gross ongoing what is said to me when he said he said it to and about me you will not date that boy he is barred from how I coach so he knew he'd lose my before Christ's life in here if if I'm that dad.

I say say things their way from Dave Wilson.

Obviously Christ to change me and and it seemed that but yeah, that was where he started you know and and and then I tell you what if I say anything to singles. That's the word what you just said yeah with the biggest word in terms of dating is slow down.

I don't think you can go to slow my right. Take your time 35 year like I know what I want to get what I say, slow down for five years were just saying that you don't need to be Russian day today week to week day today. It's like take your time to reglet for six months, seven months, get to know this person well of your choosing a life partner. I would say that there probably is a too slow, but I don't know if that's exactly the problem you think if the purpose is clear. So I say pursue clarity. Are you really gaining clarity over time right or not or are you in a holding pattern is been all the old address. Yeah, you think anyone is in a holding pattern of romance is just playing with fire union. You can experience so many temptations to treat this person like a spouse and commits sexual rally or whatever else.

If you're not if you're in a holding pattern in a dating relationship but I do think that what you are describing in terms of I think dating should be far more like way more about pursuing friendship and I mean that if if if this person is not gonna be your best friend.

You have to have serious questions about whether this is the person you want to.

Mary and I think people have this idea that marriage is this one long date night is not is not, you spend a fraction of your time together out enjoying a meal while watching a movie is been a fraction of your time in bed enjoying each other. The rest of life is very normal yet is exactly a good picture paint because that's reality, right and I can remember when and I first started dating, and by the way first relationship for both of us. If Christ centered healer yet is great as a Christ centered is like where it is his way right and had done it wrong before, but I can remember early in the relationship, probably several weeks in feeling like I'm falling in love with her and starting think about marriage and on the 22-year-old mature one.

She's 19 and I said sure in her in her parents driveway as I'm dropping off at night is that I think I'm falling in love. It's you I don't know what to do with the feelings I want to talk about marriage. I'd like to kiss you. I'm not going to let him just being honest.

In the 19-year-old says hey when we just give it to God and trust him to be friends.

Let's not put anything on it besides us pursue Christ together as a friendship. Unlike there is a maturity that I didn't have and we prayed and offered to and and all the stress when waves like okay let's be friends, let's get to know each of us get to know our relation we got together and see where it goes. Yeah, you and I encourage people today that are dating. I think the mission trip together served together in the church and I saw this one couple down in the children's wing working with four-year-olds and she said wow I'm seeing something that I never saw you and the same is true on a mission trip. Your tired, your dirty gear spent that year serving other people to gather what I called the Tommy Nelson principal you've heard this quote before. Not the first person I heard from was a pastor in Denton, Texas Tommy Nelson who said if you're single.

Your job is to run as hard as fast toward Jesus. As you can. If while you're running you see someone out of the corner of your eye running in the same direction at the same speed. Take a second look. And that's just great advice quote for singles who are in this process, but it but if you have moved along in the process to where you're starting to think okay this could be the one I talked to one young man who said the girl I was dating thought, I must not like her because I was trying to maintain physical purity.

I was not putting moves on her and she was feeling insecure and feeling unloved because she'd never been out with a guy who didn't do that. Should a guy again verbalized here are my boundaries and standards, try to handle that with you to put her mind at ease.

Oh, absolutely meant the problem that situations communication it's it's not the boundary.

It's not the self-control that you cannot be too self-controlled dating I've yet to me is that you know what you could go a little fun. It just doesn't happen and you won't regret of salons and you won't regret anything you didn't do before you got anything we we were really really really slow about saying I love you really slow because I had been through so many cases in the past. Read said early and it very quickly meant nothing, and I knew that if we got married it was gonna mean very much there either.

So I things about communication and I think this is really important because I do think that in the age that were in right now social media online dating text messages Instagram so much of the flirtation. Culture is ambiguous. It's a cat and mouse game where you kinda show a little bit and then try to draw the men but you never show quite enough to commit and see resist commitment. You kind of slide into a relationship and you linger there and see if you like it or not, and then it gets more and more seriously. How does one encourage guys in particular be the primary initiator of communication. I don't think generally speaking, I don't think a girl should ever wonder what a guy's thinking or feeling or doing in a relationship now when you have the impulse to say I love you I'm falling in love with you this on whatever date and I what I want to kiss you my counsel, you be there's a way to communicate that that's not making herself vulnerable, but to express where you were in some way shape or form to sale like you that's were Faye and I were for a long time rum saying I like you want to pursue you and she saying no thank you over and over and over again, but did see yeah over and over six months of of pursuit where I was very interested and she was cool.

Talk about in the book I got to a point where we sat down was our first official date. She will call the date it was the two of us having coffee and I'd I'd laid out my feelings for her and I was feeling confident about it. Things were going well. We were talking on the phone once once a week or so for 30 minutes was going super well the day went great and so I thought she's can say yes I would like to be pursued by you.

I said I've ever live enjoying get to know you I like you like to pursue you toward marriage and she said I've also been enjoying get to know you. I really enjoyed our conversations. Unlike this is good and and she said your you're a very nice human being you are here with us is gone and I like what does that. She said that when I think about a relationship.

My heart is cold so's awkward pause long of a bus. My wife's very honest say that with height.

Yes, very honest. And I love it about her long awkward pause. And I say regarding ice cold war and she said cold. When I was essentially in the conversation. It was still friendly. She was visiting a family were Minnesota so we ended up sitting all the time to go the next day she largely acted normal. So I just figured that's the end. Two weeks go by. I don't call in and she reaches out to me and says hey you haven't called and I said yeah you your heart is very close you were to pick the phone up as ice cold hand and she said oh I just want to let you know that wasn't ready to be in relations right now like I would still love to be friends and and if that means that you don't want to call anymore. I totally understand going back and prayed about that and I just thought you know I'm not in a hurry to rush off anywhere else. I really admire this woman and so I did. I called him and we talked for 30 to 40 minutes once a week for months mean never more than that and I was a purpose. I said from the beginning and less working in relationship is not can be more than this, but were limited to 30 to 40 minutes. The largest talked about ways we could pray for each other. Each conversation started with checking in on things we pray for last time or that we asked for peripheral estimate never prayed together on the phone at that time and then it ended with how can I pray for you this week and we just talked about a lot of things go our lives and the Lords never hurts Taylor's friends and that time so I love it Malik back and at that moment was awkward and and I was really surprised but when I look back on it now preserved a period of six months for us to be friends and we put boundaries in place to make sure that it wasn't more than that and and I knew along the way that if my heart was saying if this doesn't become relationship than I and it's a stumbling block for me. I need to get out of the relationship should do that so I will ask you about a scenario yeah and just just get your take on this. I was talking to a couple mob married couple. I said how did you meet Hodge get engaged in in hearing their story I heard that on the second or the third date.

The wife had said the future wife had said to the guy she was dating.

She said you got six months you got six months to either pop the question or move along. She is, she was 29.

He was 30 and she said I'm I'm a point in life where I don't want to be in a long-term relationship that's not had somewhere so it seems reasonable to me that in six months you should be able to figure out whether were a match or not I should be able to figure that out so she put the date on the calendar in August 19 will be the date and it's either fish or cut bait. At that point what what your thought on them. Did they get married they did okay. That's great.

Good story, and by the way, he said to me the best thing she could've done because I would just drift along as a guy in a two-year going nowhere relationship happy to be just friends and to have about the benefits of a girlfriend without having the commitment of marriage. Yes I wonder how well she knew him going into it.

I would say there be certain guys that need a kick in the pants. Probably to be intentional and clear and and keep the relationship moving forward. That makes me real nervous. The six-month thing because it just applies already there so much pressure in the situations applying an external pressure like that that could manipulate somebody I think could go badly with certain people, but I think doing that in communities. I think for me I would ask if I was asked talking to her about the wisdom of that. I would say what it would people in your life.

Think about that and people his I think about that. Does that for a healthy way to think about this for me.

If I'm counting somebody I just want to see month-to-month, are we making progress in my progress. I don't mean big revelations but how to build a sitdown with a guy and say what he learned about her or sitdown with a girl say what he learned about them what what's drawing you to him as you stay in the relationship. I think if there being intentional and this isn't just were spending time together watching movies and touching each other and expressing how much we like each other and talking about a relationship all the time. If this is really meaningfully moving somewhere towards clarity there and have meaningful things to share at those kinda check ins so for us. The important thing to say in terms been clear the demanding clear, that doesn't mean the state of the union. Every time you get together which I think is not as though another ditch on the other side to fall into where that were the guys always saying were at 11% were at 27%. I think that's an unhealthy way to relate to each other so for Faye and I for instance once a month I had it in my head I'm going to bring it up and say here's where I am. I'm to give you an opportunity to share your habit you don't have any additional pressure. She knew monthly that that's can come up and largely she felt comfortable sharing where she was the time so we talked about our relationship roughly monthly for 19 months. I'm sure there were a few more conversation sprinkled in, but it wasn't like every week every day talking about the status of our relationship. It was something that we monitored to make sure is this. It is the trajectory of the still headed towards marriage so that BMI is on looking and a couple I just want to see trajectory. Are we still aiming towards marriage removing that way. Are we making progress or is this feel like were kind of in a holding pattern and were not really making progress. Or maybe, moving backwards, can we just say here that were talking about something that's really hard but the single years are hard but trying to figure out is this the right one is hard.

The pursuit of the right one is hard diamond. This is this is a stage of life that if you're taking your cues from the culture if if if your source material for how to do this is old episodes of friends, you're not gonna wind up in a place that you will be happy with. This is where you gotta have godly counsel for you. Gotta have a book like not get married. It's where you gotta have the Scriptures be pouring into that format into your life. Otherwise, you can find yourself in a place as a single person where your you're lonely or depressed or you're shipwrecked because you took your cues from the wrong source and Marshall says that such wisdom to us in your book says it is so good.

The best book on dating is the word of God in him is so clear for single person and for parents.

Walking beside our kids. It's like we need Jesus we need the word of God and we only community I don't know what else you need, but you need those in your life to get to where God wants to take in this area of life and our hope is that blisters will get a copy of your book Marshall not yet married in pursuit of joy in singleness because we think this is a book that will be helpful for singles to go through. In fact, working to continue our conversation with Marshall.

We will talk about parents and teens who may be in the dating years and about how you can maybe have these kinds of conversations with them so you can go to our website. Family life today.com double bonus podcast available for you there. We continue the conversation with Marshall. You can download the podcast again. This is especially for parents of teenagers find it online in family life today.com and that's the same place to go if you'd like to make a donation and get a copy of Marshall's book not yet married or making the book available this week. The family like today listers who can help support the ongoing ministry of family life today and an old you may be thinking you know with this. This book is for people who are in a different season of life that I'm in will get a copy of the book and and ask God, who to give it to as a gift.

There might be somebody in your church or somebody in the workplace that you can offer this book to say I got a copy of this book in the mail and wanted to pass it on to you so make a donation to support family life today.

Get your copy of Marshall Siegel's book not yet married and either read it yourself go through it with your teenager or pass along to someone who would benefit from going through the book and again at the same time know that your supporting the ongoing work of family life today and helping hundreds of thousands of couples and families every day receive practical biblical help and hope for their marriage because of your donation you can donate online@familylifetoday.com or you can call one 800 FL today to make a donation over the phone should ask for your copy of Marshall's book when you call to donate again. Our website is family life today.com and the number to call to donate by phone is 1-800-358-6329 that's one 800 F as in family L as in life, and then the word today. One of the things Marshall talked about today was the importance of mentors in our life we ought not be trying to navigate relationship issues on our own. We need help from others and David Robbins, the person family life is here with me thinking about that subject today right I just reflect back and am so grateful I started thinking of individuals and couples who mentor word and spoke into my life in high school and especially in college when I started dating more seriously and I just think of people who took the risk to really move closer to me and I think I probably try to play it cool and and you know didn't show any ounce of really appreciating or buying it, but I was hanging onto every word and applying so much of what they were sharing and that Bob you mention one of the things I remember learning and actually watching in a small group with a mentor who is leading us.

It was that Tommy Nelson story we were watching the Tom Nelson Bible study where he now says run as hard as you can after God and look to the side and I remember that changing everything for me and it was six months later, in pursuing God with everything that I had in fixing my eye on Jesus and really surrendering every area of my life to him that looked to the side and sure enough there was a young lady named Meg running a very similar pace, and I pursued her totally differently than any other girl I have ever pursued because of mentors and their input into my life at that moment in my life and so I hear the conversation today and I just asked all of us to God. Open our eyes to who are the young people around us and see how we, God help us take steps of faith to move closer to them, invite them into our homes model for them.

What healthy relationships look like and encourage them and how to pursue relationships because these are the families of the next generation and we get to be a part of their story. Take what's been poured into you and pour it into others right absolutely, that's great. Thank you, David, and we want to encourage our listers to be back with us again tomorrow, tackle a very difficult subject of the subject of domestic violence, of abuse in a marriage relationship. There are different kinds of abuse and Darby Strickland from the Christian counseling and education foundation. As can be with us tomorrow to help us determine whether your experiencing in marriage actually qualifies as abuse or not. So we hope you can tune in for that thinker engineer today.

Keith Lynch, along with some help today from Bruce Goff and our entire broadcast production team on behalf of our hosts Dave and Ann Wilson on Bob Payne join us back again tomorrow for another edition of family life today. Family life today is a production of family life of Little Rock, Arkansas.

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