Managing Love and Money

Brian and Shirley Lowell have more than $100,000 in debt when they decided to do something about.

They were… For the long haul. When we started paying off that we thought it would take us 15 years 7 1/2. If we really hustled and got showed up and made her weight is less than four which is in my opinion, nothing short of America, but I think there's a temptation to suggest not be wise about our money and throw that out there and say Will provide you now when startups are hands up in the air and not be good.

Manage what he already has provided this is family like today hosts are David and Wilson on problem pain will hear from Brian and Shirley Lowe today about how God showed up as they began their journey of digging out from among the and welcome to family life today.

Thanks for joining us.

I have the chance to talk. This was, I don't know, maybe a year ago with a couple who are very publicly online for accountability working their way out of debt. In fact, I guess today I don't know if you guys know Brian and Sherry Lowe join us again. Welcome back to family life today, so the couple I'm talking about Philip and Jasmine Holmes do know them so there.

They're not as far gone as you were there in the mid 60s that you care about as far into debt. As you guys are. You were up past the hundred thousand when you said, we gotta get out of debt.

They were in the mid 60s. But the thing they said that parallels what you've already shared with us this week is they said. Someday we'd like to adopt and we began to look at the fact that we can't adopt it for in this level of debt. It's good work.

I have to have some money to be able to adopt and that vision of what they wanted to do in their marriage was the motivation for them to start denying some present desires for a future reality that was bigger than the momentary desire that they might have right and Sherry written a book called your money, your marriage, and another book called slaying the debt Dragon. The first book is where you kind of chart the path you took to get out of debt. In this book is all about the fact that your marriage is not going to be what God wants it to be. If you're in debt, that's going to have an impact on your intimacy and your oneness at my overstating the case to say, your marriage can't be what God wants it to be. If you're in significant debt not significant that even if you don't have any debts of the people who are listening, managing money well take care there takes these skills and when were able to manage it well together then were able to function within God's kingdom more effectively.

So maybe God has called us to adopt or maybe he's called us to be generous givers in our local faith community or a number of different things we want to be prepared to do what God has made us to do and when were working together while with money were able to do those things. I love that.

But what if we have one spouse that's all about money get this debt down. We can do all the things that the other person isn't on board. Why are you asking that you get that debt down that Elsa wouldn't do anything to my liking. But what if a person is like no like that. Now I don't think this is necessary. How do you respond to best serve I've got a story and I will let Brian share scriptural principle behind that as well. But one of the things that Brian did early on in our journey that spoke volumes to me because I was the person that was a little more hesitant and I wasn't sure that that was really something we could even do and we had a credit card at the time and had about $16,000 on it was for what we said were emergencies and Brian said one day to me in one function of an emergency. It's not can happen in the drive-through of Starbucks and I have this is a very interesting principal and so he very quietly and without any fanfare slip that credit card out of his wallet and put it in the desk drawer and he didn't say.

To me this time. You put yours in there to do that. He just said I'm not can do this anymore and I carried mine for a few weeks more and it dawned on me that I was probably not going to have an emergency at target either and so one day with similar you know, kind of just low key ceremony put it right in the desk along with his as well. And so for that spouse, that feel like they're the only one there something you can do today to entice the heart of your reluctant spouse is not necessarily pointing the finger and condemning work five right now were actually a really good, but I will say this illustration shows you to have a lot of self-control because there's many people I could not just put a card and a desk and then leave it there, they it's almost like a person, struggle, pornography is amazing anywhere near that in a weak moment to go get it.

You know I've had times my church where we talked about getting out of debt, enough to bring your plastic idol: I don't rub the genie get what you bring up here and cut it up and people literally walked up like an altar call.

This is my day, latest thing I can't yet I can't go grab it out of a desk drawer.

But you guys put away and actually lived yeah and you know what. After we put it in the drawer. We never use it again.

So 2008 and now here we are, without credit cards 11 years now. You don't have one. We doubt we have debit card that we use for those to which I don't just some miles I'm good with land that down because for us it was too dangerous and we knew that we would slip back into the habit again and eventually we did shut down the account.

We cut it up and it took a baby step in between for us.

Some people just can't quite go to that cut it up staged me back and in between stage and so sometimes I teach them, say, freeze it, but it in some ice and thrown in your freezer and then really if you have an emergency get the hairdryer out and you can get it back out again.

But you know in the death Star for us was that first step of obedience. This is radical.

I'm thinking of parents that have teenagers and college students who have credit cards using them without any limit what's happening in the future generations are they incurring more debt or less. I think it depends on which future generations. So the young folks that can have credit cards right now are still incurring that and it's near the trillion dollar mark.

If I'm not mistaken that's too much it's too much for folks to handle again. Even if you pay it off. You research has shown that you spend about 40% more. If you have a credit card because you don't feel it. It doesn't trigger the pain center of your brain the same way the cash does what we did with our daughters. I think phones about next generation coming up is restarted banking with them now and my younger daughter when she was about 14 got a debit card that was not attached to our bank account so that she could see what was going on so that she could manage it and learn how to do that now that she was 16.

She has a student checking account that links to her savings and that's one of the things that we've done to teach them about managing the money and the resources that you have money and money out. I think that's huge.

I think parents today ignore oftentimes teaching their kids financial principles.

Back in my day it was the envelopes and you put someone to use all that.

And that's a great system, but how many kids walk on the college campus for the first time in the first thing they see is that role people send free money to get your credit card and they've never learned how to manage that. So we got our kids cards. Whether it's a debit card or credit card. We got them when they started high school because we wanted them to mess up at home rather than messing up out in the world with it. While they might not even know the terminology that the difference between debt and debit is one letter and a lot of kids don't know the difference quite honest, because we're not talking about financial things regularly that Brian has a great scriptural kind of association with that idea of the reluctant spouse that we were talking about earlier.

Just an idea of what you can do if you are that spouse that's gung ho you want to get things in order that you feel like there's brakes on the other side and you're not the only one that's asked that's the number one question we do it when we speak to churches or conferences.

Someone always comes up and asked what you do my spouse in the same page how to do that in reading through the Bible and actually the message other transliteration by Eugene Peterson in Romans five just hit me like a ton of bricks.

And there's this person in there where she references passionate patients.

This idea of an active waiting and I think the putting the credit card in the drawer. The doing everything that you can.

One of the things that but I did well overpaying out that I went out without eating at a restaurant for 2 1/2 years. Not even if it was right so little things that you can do to make a difference and to have those conversations, like what you talked about feel disrespected.

I need your help and let something powerful that a wife especially can say to her husband help me with this Riley if somebody said to you in those two half years. Hey, I'll take you out to lunch you to know I did say thereby am why aren't you going to lunch with him.

This is complicated. I treated it like an addiction because one thing leads to another. When it comes to food or relationships or whatever it might be and so are my thoughts, myself, this is how my brain works is if the cocaine is free. It's still cocaine. So if the food from the restaurant is free. I'm still going to want more of it on my own and I don't want to taste the bitter herbs I want to keep going forward. So yeah ice water even even if my office was buying out. I went out with one of those steak houses were they they slice the meeting goes through it and just just watched as out payment I will you got to that point. That happened later right and so it's a little bit over a long period of time more people sent to him till you can't do that. He was like a whole lot became a little bit of the dude Jerry, this is this you said you thought about the book about wedding vows, money vows and how important money vows are almost just as important as a you know promise you're making about your you're married for about the promises you make about your money. I like to hear his thinking, especially when you're planning a wedding. If you been through this recently either yourself or you have a child he's gotten married there so many details involved with the wedding to make sure we have the right dresses and we have the right music and food in the whole 9 yards that rarely do we really think through our valves. What is it we are staying when we get to the end of the aisle, and for some we can have composed our own money vows which are a little bit further step out from that promises that we made. For instance, I promise to share freely the money I make. Resisting the temptation to see what's mine is mine and what's yours is yours to never lie or avoid talking about what I've spent that's a very I'm writing painting or hoarding money very I heard my wife or their Stacy's hidden money a little money like maybe a bag and things I buy culture around that right now that it's like on you know on memes and stuff like that where like hide your packages before your own daily CET now and it begins like that small and then it blows it to something much, much more that I will say my mom used to do that now she's like girls get those bags in the house before your dad get you ever read the verse in the Bible says the sins of the father mother is in and the whole idea behind the money vows talk about God providing talk about trusting this area of your life as well. Money. The combination of couple of couple of things that we are number one certainly always dependent on God to provide for our needs and when we started paying off that we thought it would take us 15 years 7 1/2. If we really hustled and got showed up and made her weight is less than four which is in my opinion, nothing short of a miracle.

Yes, but I think there's a temptation to suggest not be wise about our money and throw that out there and say couple provides you. Now once, toss our hand in the air and not be good stewards and manage what he already has provided.

When we first got married, we came on staff with crew campus Crusade for Christ.

So we raised our own financial support for 15 years and there were times that we were tight, really tight.

I remember one time our boys were little and they really wanted a power wheels, but those are you now and so I'm when we just can buy one, maybe $200 and $200 to us was like $1 million at the time and so I remember saying to the boys all this is.

They kept whining and so we said let's pray and ask God not the part that so beautiful that it brings God into the equation into the picture and we prayed every night.

Dave, how long did we pray months yeah really that almost every night with them out loud that I was thinking if it would be today it be so easy to slip out a credit card yet because that's like the replacement substitute God boom I got it do that as a parent is to buy the things that they desire and want that for us. We couldn't insolent product got into the picture and we one day got a check in the mail or why there was nowhere for some speaking thing I did take months and months ago and it was for the exact amount of that power wheels and so we took that to our boys and said, look at how God has showed in his beautiful that God always does that, but it was such a great picture of going to God first, see what you're illustrating with that I ran across this like I can't verify that this is 100% true. But in 1863 when they mentored the first two cent piece somewhere. The idea struck somebody we need to write on this two cent piece in God we trust now. Have you ever thought about why that's stamped on our money now. I think the reason is because somebody recognized pretty early on how easy it is for us to go.

This is what I trust. Yes, I trust my mother. This is my provider.

This is my protector. This is my source, my joy comes from this.

My happiness comes from this we begin to make money. It has the same attributes. Many of the same attributes of God, has we don't pray. Give us this day our daily bread because we got bread at home to pray for that we don't pray Lord, are you gonna provide because we got credit card right and I think we need to get back to the idea that it is in God we trust not in the money that whatever little you have or however much you have as soon as you start to think my securities there. My joy is there. You assigned to an inanimate object something that belongs only to God become an idol that is huge and I think gotten new in the Scripture we know that there are well over 2000 verses about money, possessions one out of every 10 verses in the Gospels about money or possessions. 16 of the parables that Jesus uses to teach about money or possessions. And God knew it would have competition for our hard and so I think that's it. It's so important that we recognize that Jordan did back when you were 100,000+ in depth.

Did it ever threatened the foundation of your marriage did you ever look at each other and go I will be married. I don't think we ever got there because were both sort of just numb through it together but there was some passive aggressive notes that didn't have to be better spent. What you did was why you know I obviously don't make bad choices with money what are you doing right and you know because we can always justify our purchases or are spending but the other person. While that's frivolous right so we had a lot of that going on and that was tearing a relationship. Little by little, low-grade conflict, something Dave something about you as an athlete.

It's like those little you are like that. Those little nagging injuries that you go you ignore them, but they get worse every time you go to the gym or you do something, those can turn into well, they always do have to insert what you said earlier's like you got into debt by not paying attention you get out of debt by paying attention. You wrote it down. You said we can make some real hard decisions in every athlete, every person the same things that I have to take her little things that lead to big things huge.

If you guys had to talk right now the young couple was sitting in front of you just give them a couple things like if I could kiss implore you to do this when you say what Moneyball would you have you go do this. This is a big part of what we do is that we have especially engaged couples we have a heart for engaged couples. We try to walk through with, especially in financial matters because the ones talking about that when they're planning the wedding. We encourage them to use the wedding budget as their first budgeting experience together to working with money and combining finances yet engaging in this exercise, that'll give us habits going forward.

I think the main thing is the marriage is not a competition. It's a collaboration and you need to be working with your spouse on money need to be communicating with your spouse about money and please don't borrow money on that adverse and so if if you can get away with it because obviously we haven't had credit cards and 11 years so you don't need to get car loans. We do not know him and had a car loan since 2009 house still but still are working on our mortgage but it is much less than what we've paid on thing else other than the house.

What they did a couple that's coming in and day one person has a lot of college debt.

The other person has nothing and the one person that has nothing doesn't want to pay for that college debt or some other yeah, you're already going to get a story about because Jasmine this is a big part, especially for our older daughter who lived look through this and watches and made decisions is a very small person when it came to this and there was a Mother's Day. We were headed to the mall to buy Mother's Day gifts as every dad should take their daughter to buy Mother's Day skip sense and so we we were in the car out of nowhere.

You have these conversations with your daughter about the future about boys and things like that so you know that he wants to marry me and he has student on that now she was eight years old boy wants to marry me and he has student loan that he's going to need the pay that all there was that she said well because before we get married it's his and after we get married it's offers and I thought well I can be done parent to know some Mike drop parenting moment it at that point but she's right before you get married, it's individual, but the second that you say I do to become one and you you are married and it is now ours and and you need to work together as if you incurred it as well that one of the cool things is in your book as well and you've been sated all day is it's his widow as at the end of the day rights as a married couple czars and is a is a married couple with Christ as the foundations are said 30,000 foot perspectives is when it really is his and it is a gift. And so that's what we do want to manage and steward it well and also be very generous with that. I'll tell you this one of the life verses for me and money because it's been a struggle as we got married I grew up in a divorced home where before the divorce very rich airline pilot, dad built homes and mansions in gated communities in New York. He walks out and I didn't know this till I was mid-20s because we had that my mom and I single mom move into a little town in Ohio.

Why because that's where her parents were to take care of her and I'm a group or found out later, the house, it we move from that they built in the 60s was in the $400,000 and I never knew this till I'm married because my brother tells me he's 12 years old goes to know how the deal worked when mom sold the house after the divorce know what, because the deal was. Dad said sell the house will split the profit he's gone with his girlfriend. She sells the house for $60,000. So she walked away with 30. That's what I grew up on. She could've been wealthy. So all that to say I grew up with sort of a fear that I'm going to be poor in the verse that God gave me was Philippians 419, which I'm sure you know I can quoted by memory because it's ingrained in my heart and my God shall supply all of your needs again then say wants, but it says needs according to his riches in Christ Jesus euros. We start our first few years of marriage were full-time missionaries raise support claim that everything is what 40 years later on today. This God supplies your needs. He always I could tell you story after story and a lot of it is, as you obey him in the money principles. I like the idea to of going before God.

Whether you've done a great job at this or not going to fire God as a couple may be getting on your knees and say God we surrender this area to you and we need your help.

Your guidance guide us and show us what this will look like, and I think your book does a great job of guiding people through that and towards Jesus. Think you might take some bravery to do that. Well you guys help supply the courage and the book your money, your marriage, which is a book that we got our family life today resource. Our thanks for being with us on family life today could have goes here. Thank you so I am for our listeners go to our website. Family life today.com. We got copies of violent sherries books, your money, your marriage and slaying the debt Dragon again go to family life today.com for more information on how you can order either or both of these books. We also got a link. Your blog which is called Queen of the free so you can go to family life.com to find out more about Yuri's blog or order either your money, your marriage or slaying the debt Dragon if you'd like to order by phone the number is one 800 F. L. Today, one 803 586-329-1800 F as in family L as in life and in the word today. You know a great take away from what we've talked about today is that it if you want to get somewhere you need to have a wife or that that's what fueled the lows getting out of debt is they have a vision for where they were headed in the personal family like David Robbins is here with us. That's a key principle is yeah I love how clearly they articulate that a vision of what we hope for the future, provides the fuel for self-control in the present, whether that's money like they discussed or been intentional with relationships with your kids are facing temptations or whole 30] anything that comes your way. It won't always be easy and immediate and in relationships with our kids or spouse or friends.

There's an immediate temptation to avoid it to hide a lot of times or to run it over because that's easier and seems more satisfying than the short run, it actually does provide for you little bit but never in the long run, and it takes vision to develop real grace and truth filled relationships, the ones that God desires for us to have with him and with each other and with our kids and friends around us and really take self-control to step into the discomfort of conflict resolution and restoration and to take the risk to really go there because the future vision of the type of marriage you want in the future that will fuel the self-control in the present.

I think the question is, are we living for today and we all grew up being told carpe diem. Seize the day, or are you living for tomorrow and it's good to live in the moment, but it's not good for the moment to be what's directing everything about your life, you got a get of your legacy and you don't you now. Thank you David we hope you have a great weekend. Hope you and your family are able to worship together with your local church in one way or another this weekend and we hope you can join us back on Monday when looking to talk about the most common challenges that stepfamilies face Ron deal will be here to walk us through those issues and provide some very helpful biblical solutions to those challenges.

Hope you can join us for that know something sinister like them to tune in and listen think our engineer today. Keith Lynch along with our entire broadcast team on behalf of our hosts Dave and Anna Wilson on Bob. See you back next time for another edition.

Family life, family life today is the production of family life of Little Rock, Arkansas. A crew ministry help for today hope for tomorrow