When One Spouse Is a Saver and the Other a Spender

Are your views about money shaped more by your life experience or by your personality or temperament, author Jeff Feldman says the research shows. Both are a factor. Both fresh out of graduate school, we were living in Manhattan. I was working at a big law firm and we had brought $135,000 of student loan debt to the marriage. This is in the 90s and I was focused on just hammering away at yeah basically I want to get rid of that and I was working all these hours all the time in order to preserve what I thought was my job to keep myself secure in that position so we could reduce this. This is family like to day hosts are Dave and Ann Wilson and Bob Lapine.

You can find us online@familylifetodate.com. Different people have different perspectives on money for different reasons. Question is in marriage.

Can we figure out how to make our differences work for us instead of working against us will talk more about that today.

Stay with us all and welcome to family life to day. Thanks for joining us. We got our host Scrooge McDuck and his wife to set is at the appropriate way to well you are I don't have a name I don't have the character of a good material girl this is a very interesting way to start this program with Scrooge McDuck in the material girl are man and wife. But when that happens when the conflict ahead of funding our demo money and I think we are screwed McDuck and material girl. As I shot Jeff out on her with the scenario a little bit like Wilson's in terms of money and they wrote a book about it. I'm just here to support and I am now we know. But we've been talking about that for love and money. Really, the book thriving in love and money in the you know even the titles like can you thrive in a marriage with money at the center and so let's keep going.

This is a hot topic. Obviously, my wife needs your help. So there were a kid.

We all need your help.

But you know you dove into the research instead of.

Find out what's going on in the world and in marriages with money we've Artie talked about yet a big surprise remind us what that is an endless go from there. When you're having tension around money. It's not about the money we're avoiding talking about it or whatever. It has nothing to do with that. It's about all this stuff running under the surface. All these other factors you deal with those suddenly talking about money actually comes coming naturally and talking about it is what moves the needle in the yes and we did the way we should mention that last time that we actually statistically found out that that is the factor that is the most important for the relationship. If you can talk about money. It's believe it or not. The biggest obstacle to financial freedom and generosity in people being on the same page about tithing being in all the other stuff that comes along with life and a healthy financial life. The biggest obstacle isn't that you don't know how to do a good budget, although maybe I'm aware that you have too much debt, although you might. The biggest obstacle is the inability of a husband and wife to sit down on the kitchen table and talk about and there are all kinds of reasons why these things are hard to talk about.

I grew up in a home where both my parents had been through the depression and so they grew up with the money mindset of a scarcity there. You gotta be thrifty. My mom loved to so and so she made clothes for all of us kids. My dad had this sense that if your kids are wearing close that mama makes. That's just a badge that says we don't have money at our house, so he was feeling threatened. As a provider feeling anxiety as a provider because mom made close moms thinking I'm saving money for other things. Plus I like doing this and and I remember that being a attention spot. But all that goes back to stuff they learned in their family of origin childhood patterns with their own financial situations work.

We don't recognize the kind of baggage that we bring into a marriage around money it's all there subconsciously, but it starts to come out as soon as were asking a question where you want to go on vacation this summer dummies as well. It's been a while friends got a cabin on the lake. We could go there now I'm thinking maybe we could go to Cancún right and all of a sudden it's on the table what's going on here that's even a great question Bob to ask one another of what was it like for your family.

Growing up because I think we all have a story just as you had Bob hi Hannah mom and dad Lisa fight about money and I can remember when I was for my dad being so angry that he threw a chair across the room and broke it down so later in high school, it just made sense to me that my mom had given me a credit card and whenever she we would shop she would wait and say all your dad's home. Let's not bring in our packages until he's gone and so I carry that into my marriage. Is that a question to ask her where do we start in the conversation. Yeah, I think it it is a question to ask, but the interesting thing that the research kind of lettuce two was that that family history year origin story of how you view money is not necessarily your experience that you had because we interviewed brothers and sisters, maybe nine, 10, 11 months apart and they had the same experience growing up and maybe it was a difficulty in you know finances for the family and the sister would say, you know, because of that. That's why I save everything because we I never want to feel what I felt as a kid.

And yes, the brother and he says that's why I spend the way that I do because I never want to feel that way of not having things and so that family history doesn't even yield the same result.

Turns out it's not necessarily not history. It's how you responded to it and so that is a great question to ask each other, you know what is the background and what did you feel about that. When did you think what were some of the things he decided I never want to feel that way again. Or I'm always looking forward to the day when I have money because of whatever that'll help Some of those things will, but the problem is we don't even ask that question because we just assume that our way is right and that's the that's the proper way to look at it because it's natural. It feels natural for us.

One of the key things that were touching on here and Bob, your story was a perfect example of this with your parents is that one of the big factors that's running into the surface that we don't realize is that we're just not valuing what the other person values that we know were different people, but for some reason we don't translate that into thinking that that this other person might care about something different than me and that might be legitimate. It's okay that for example you have a desire to spend something and enjoy life and he or she wants to save everything because she grew up with parents who have no had the parents and the depression and so she wants to save everything or whatever those factors are that's very legitimate. Both of those things. So when we were first married.

We had both fresh out of graduate school, we were living in Manhattan. I was working at a big law firm and we had brought hundred and $35,000 of student loan debt to the marriage. This is only part it was expensive 90s and I was focused on just hammering away at yeah basically I want to get rid of that and I was working all these hours all the time in order to preserve what I thought was my job to keep myself secure in that position so we could reduce this debts. Chante wanted to spend time together.

She wanted joy so we would try a couple of nights a week to get together and have dinner and and I mean it. I would leave the office would have dinner and I've had back to the office really and it was always good. We found it is a time to talk until the waiter came and said can I get you anything to drink with your meal and Chante would order a diet coke and I'd sit there any water, and outdoor water and in my mind and thinking that's 450 right there.

You know, and in so I'm thinking you know okay you drink it bugs me a little and finally I recover and were enjoying the meal. I didn't see any of course not know, and then the waiter comes back and says can I get you anything else, and Chante was a I'd like another Diet Coke and anyone who has lived in New York knows that there are no such thing as free refills in Manhattan so he brings out another Diet Coke and automatically I'm heading it up and going. That's nine bucks on something you could've ordered water for and by that time the conversation pretty much ended and I was feeling angry and annoyed and then I go back to the office make money to pay for culture exactly all right Chante let's hear your side. Her side, and here's what we didn't know at the time I didn't know he was sitting there fuming about paying off the student loan.and what he didn't know we were newlyweds. He didn't really recognize until he was able to sort of articulate and we talked about it months and months later, Max, and many many spoiled dinners later that he did know I don't actually like the taste of water. I don't know why am kinda weird that way like I need an iced tea. I need a subject literally finally was able to tell him what I just want to enjoy the meal. If I don't have some sort of soft drink with. I just wanted I'd rather stay home and save the money rather than go out to a nice dinner and not be able to get a Diet Coke or whatever with it and totally changed it because he then knew why. And it was no longer in his mind and character flaw. It was just me valuing something different and kind of moment is as you can tell that's super simple.

It's kinda stupid it's silly, but it's of those semi-stupid minor things that these marriage issues are made. It's this is one of the reasons why this is such a source of friction and we don't recognize until we stop and really think about it we do with money is a picture of what matters to us saving. It means we value security and stability and longevity on the nest day going. We feel better if we got that if we spend it on this. It means we value recreation. If we spend on this. It means we value looking good.

If we spend it on this. So really we're expressing every time we pull our wallet out.

This is what really matters to me. It's funny to me what will all be thrifty about and what I don't care about Mary and I left about this all the time. I have an app on my phone that's called gas buddy give gas but you just buddy list a plug for them but they got this app and it will tell you what are the lowest gas prices in town. Oh no you just turn gasoline on a 20 mile if I can find that no it's a nickel cheaper a gallon over here and and I will say what were going to go there and Marion is lights. We got 12 gallons. It's a nickel cheaper so we just what we saved a dollar 20 there spent an hour and and I recognize that that there's something quirky about that in me. This led somehow it's hardwired is that this is where you look for the low prices you shop.

I'm also aware of the fact I'm doing too much confessing, I'm aware of the fact that if I get a bargain presented to me it's less about whether I even like or want the thing it emits more MIR shrewd buyer. If I buy that thing whether I like it or want it or not right. It's if I just saved 70% on something I don't have to want it, it's what I just saved makes me a winner. Justin said I don't need the thing I just need to know. I just am a winner like this is perfect because when you talk about valuing, not valuing with the other person values.

Those values aren't just like you now do you value that big vacation in Cancún or the Mountain Lakes right it's it's literally things like valuing a whether there is a deal on it versus not work.

Valuing do you buy the tickets to the movie online ahead of time in order to reserve your space and not have to stand in line or do you think that's ridiculous to pay an extra dollar 50 for that matter, but our and it's not that time is money.

Of course you go stand in line for an hour and does all different things that matter and most of the time, unless you're talking about those cases that are beyond what we can cover here like Sunday is gambling addiction or Unisom is a shopaholic as those do happen and went there beyond what we can cover here.

But those are rare. Most of the time those things are not objectively right or wrong, they are just different. We have to honor that sometimes we think. Don't worry that our value is objectively right compared to their value like I would have this going on in my mind she wants to spend on something I must say what she wants is wrong and I'm thinking that could going to bank that could go toward retirement on valuing saving in the future. Hey, that's biblical I can give you versus the backup that I can give you very many say that she's that purse when she has 18 others, you know, sit in the closet that you do news I get on that item arrived really don't have that we just hit the back but you don't need to get on us and writer on but I'm I have felt that I'm guessing most spouses of thought on this is more than I value she value the value. This is right. This is even backed up biblically. Wow, what we talk about let let me Jeff, you might want to tell them what you felt right. When the pandemic first and the economy had to completely shut down and because you came to me in and told me something was hard to hear that Chante often sign back in the times was saying, you know, kind of at this moment in time. A lot of savers are feeling pretty darn vindicator because this is what you save for events like this and he's already care for them and we didn't have that we have that that significant amount of cushion than what I felt comfortable with. So I came to Chante and I said you know that I gotta tell you the past couple of weeks have been feeling a little bit of resentment.

Quite frankly thinking about last year, you know, we ate out all these times and you you drink those that we went to Disney World with the kids you know if we hadn't done those things we would have several thousand more dollars in the bank account right now which men could use because all our income shut down right I like all events are canceled and and kinda left as backwards and then over the next week. It took me a while but because of this research because of the stuff that I've been learning. I began asking myself the questions of why did we do these things.

Why, what was important to Chante and I finally came back door and I said you know I had been looking at all of those things is a net cost as opposed to a benefit. For example, what we gained from eating out as a family having those fun experiences what we gain from being at Disney was a great bunch of memories and now in close and now when we are in this pandemic and we were all sitting on top of each other in the same house we like being around each other.

We had this great connection and fun and you know there was an investment that she was willing to make the year before, and a lot of these things and that investment costed money, but the investment in experiences in family closeness in all those things that I would've probably chosen may be different things like a free picnic in the park. Nevertheless, what she was choosing help to benefit our family to big things. I heard Jeff one that you came and shared your frustration. I kept thinking you wouldn't have done that would happen the day and I don't think most of us do this kind of stuff it, but even after kind of contemplating the realization that you came to that was laying down your pride of saying wow look at the things that we've gained and and guess what that did for me because he was able this is that little microcosm of what we found in the research is that because he was able to tell me what he was thinking and feeling stuffed under the surface stuff five communicating meaning really is an amazing guy because you are able to do that.

Honestly, it changed me because I was so used to almost 25 years before he started this research and I was so used to being says every time he came to talk about money.

I just shut myself down and instead sent plan hearing.

Wow I see what value you are placing on this.

I see why you cared about doing this and I might've handled things differently, but now we're stuck on top of each other and we like each other and we enjoyed being together and I really know even though maybe still disagree with certain things I really understand where this came from and it made me want to then open myself up to what he valued and to be able to say luck I know this time has got to be so nervous for you and for you to be thinking about what is this mean that all of our speaking events are canceled and you know the fact that we don't have as much cushion as we wanted coming into a time like this. And I'm sorry and what can we do now tipped to be able to talk through it and go all right, let's just shut down whole bunch of spending until we see how this is all going to play out things that would then reassure you, I would've probably done that before because I don't to be irresponsible.

You now be wise, but I wouldn't have talked about it, I would've said those words, he wouldn't have known that that was in my heart for him to keep to a whole new level of intimacy and trust which he would've never exacted and oneness as we talked about it.

It is interesting you said earlier that conversation really was about money is true even though it was about money.

It was a deeper deal and I love that you had the perspective of what did we gain from the thing you saw was a loss. We've had the exact same experience. I want a medic as a means Anne's right foot, but early in our marriage it again. This is four years ago she highly valued vacations. She said my family took vacations I think this something we should do with the boys as they grow up and I'm like never I went on one vacation my entire life and again here. Here's the value I didn't even notice the time mom and dad married Airline pilot Rich builds houses in New York City or outside New York gated community divorce. Mom becomes a elementary teacher and no money in scarcity. All through the rest of my life and there's this building fear. I don't ever want to live there again. So my mom and I took one vacation day.

I can remember it.

And so Anne's like a we had take vacations. I'm like no you don't.

We don't have the money when I can have the money she demanded. We do this she's and she was right that have to be expensive vacation. There's a lot of ways it get intently. Let the rain fall all over you, which we did. Anyway, long story short, we do vacations every year and I can tell you as we are driving wherever gone mad right thing 58 and it's like sometimes I would take me to his third day before my cocaine was actually fun and anyway all he knows is our sons were getting married. We have these conversations and what he can miss when you what you remember most everyone. The only thing they remembered our family vacations and it would be like don't get but it's just what you do is like it didn't break the bank. It really didn't and it was a wise choice to value something that she valued which was something the family valued the thing though it just to say this out loud. There are things that matter to us that aren't necessarily building family connectedness that are necessarily wrong either one of the things that we've created to go along with the book as a curriculum and one of the people that we interviewed.

They had had this knockdown drag out fight about some of the things they would do on a vacation because she's the saver and should be like we have some credit card data and it is a paid off, and so we okay fine will go on vacations and Artie paid for, but we can eat every meal at McDonald's like we are going to eat every meal facet while her husband happens to be a foodie like he loves being able to find cool places and to be able to really enjoy unique food and that's just something that gives him short way for her to recognize. Okay, that's legitimate and to be able to talk about it led into a compromise where okay will go on vacation and we won't cancel that and he says you know what I don't need to have an expensive foodie experience. I'll go to all the little local hole in the wall seafood places at the beach that you know the little tour guides recommend.

I just don't want to go to McDonald's for every meal and that made her see he is honoring what she values, which is let's come back from his vacation with the ability to continue to get out of town so it's all about talking about the thing that has been so good about all of the work you've done for years has been that you help us understand one another better with your research. It's like now I get why you're this way.

I just thought you were flawed for your annoying and now I understand all this is how you are so with the women read for women over there went oh so this is how men in general think when we read for men only. It's like oh this is how women think this book thriving in love and money helps us understand better. Oh, this is what you value. This is what's important to you and that understanding alone is more than half the battle to reducing the conflict in the stress and the tension the assessment that you've developed which we got a link to our website@familylifetodate.com folks can go online and take that for free.

That gives you insight and then your book thriving in love and money were making that available to any family life to the list or would like to copy this week. If you can help with the donation to support the ministry. The book is our thank you gift to you in exchange for your support go to family life to the.com and say I think we would benefit from getting a copy of that book make an online donation or call to donate again. The website is family life to date.com or you can call to donate at one 800 FL today, Jeff and Charlie's book is called thriving in love and money just request your copy and were happy to send it to you as a way of saying thanks for your ongoing support of this ministry.

We couldn't do what we do without folks like you making this possible. So were grateful for your partnership with us and then I will mention one additional resource we are making available this week absolutely free. It's something we call taking your marriage from good to great. It's an online resource gives you access to a couple of video-based mini courses, one on how to resolve conflict when it occurs in marriage. Another course we call light bulb moments in marriage than there are messages available to you from Paul David Tripp Gary Chapman Bodie Baucom Julie Slattery great messages designed to strengthen your marriage and there are downloadable's conversation starters questions for conversation between husbands and wives and there's a bonus incentive for you to engage with this content. Everyone who accesses it will be automatically registered for a giveaway were doing one couple is going to join us here at family life for an upcoming family life today recording session and then dinner that night with David and Wilson so go to family like today.com find out about the taking your marriage from good to great resource. It's totally free. No purchase necessary. All the contest rules are available online. Again, go to family life to date.com for more information or family questions call us at one 803 586-329-1800 F as in family L as in life and in the word today that tomorrow we'll talk about why it is that people who you might look at and say will they seem to have enough money to be able to cover everything. Why do they still have money problems and that's a reality for a lot of people. Jeff and Shorty felt on will be here again tomorrow, I hope you can tune him as well. I don't think our engineer today.

Keith Lynch along with our entire broadcast production team on behalf of our hosts Dave and Ann Wilson and Bob Lapine see you back next time for another edition of family life today.

Family life to day is a production of family life of Little Rock, Arkansas. Accrue ministry help for today hope for tomorrow