Respecting Girls

Is young man, Vicki, Courtney's son was looking at pornography regularly and she became aware of that.

Later in his life after he had broken free from that addiction and she asked him if she had failed him in some way. As a mother. He really answer that question to me like what could I have done differently, and this may sound hopeless to moms, but he said nothing.

You did everything you were supposed to do you are having the conversations.

This is how powerful it is.

He said that at the end of the day only tell you what I caught for me. I remember four-story mom of redemption. I remember you telling me how God works that out in your own life and so I remember you telling me that it's never too late to begin again this is family life today. Our hosts are David and Wilson on Bob Payne.

You can find us online@familylifetoday.com. What can we be doing today as parents to help prepare our children for those times when they will fall and will fail. How do we make sure they understand that God provides forgiveness and redemption will talk more about that today with Vicki Courtney stay with us and welcome to family life to. Thanks for joining us to talk this time. You know you you attribute your hand. If I like that homework skis me you contributed yesterday so I will later contribute to the fact that I thought would start with little name that tune, play this and let's see who can get the song first. Okay, here you get it.

This is one of the conversations with others. Yes, right here. This is the conversation. Yeah, this is what is the name something and then you get on Cornelius brothers so there is this Texas five years older than yourself that the title of this August treat her like a lady by the Cornelius brothers and sister rose from back in my day. Okay, but that's 135 stop probably early 60s. That's 866 62. I was not hurting 70. This song came out in 1971.

Okay so that's 60s. It's not 1935 like you is your Zalman but forget sawing the conversation okay teaching our sons how to treat a lady how to treat a young woman with respect and dignity as I supposed to do play the song over and over all that's not how you do it. Vicki's there to help. Do we have an expert. How did you do it I will know how you did with your boys.

How did you teach her boys to treat girls well you know when you have a model in the home like me oh you just say boys copy this is that I did it. You really get it. Now I'm did she try to be nice.

Well I you know Vicki said earlier I started by sharing mistakes and how I didn't treat women the way they should been treated as a high school boy and then later so I started with honesty and then tried to have conversations every day.

You know wasn't one conversation. It talked about cherishing a woman. I didn't know until I became a follower of Christ, that God had a standard that his word laid out what it look like for man to cherish and love a woman I was the guy that did it the way the world did thought women were justified and didn't know any better and I'm not blaming anybody but myself. But when you step into Christ. There's a whole new you see her as a woman made the image of God that changes everything you shared mistakes with your boys at like when they were nine and 10. Were you told my made mistakes with girls, yes, but not specifics until they were delivered world almost college-age high school ghetto and powerful at the same time you were talking about the fact that you didn't do it right and you were involved in trying to help coach your boys on how to treat you first so that they know how to treat other women right unite and email even if you have toddlers who get angry, who will hit.

I remember taking your hand and saying you will never hit a woman or a girl. Your job is to protect girls to protect women even let Mike toddlers your teaching. It's your job to stand up for it's your time to protecting even when there is like bickering and fighting. It's like they see their job as being one of protection of love of care we can start those conversations when their little and Dave you are great at respecting me honoring me and letting you know that I do remember I don't know what day it was, but my oldest son. I think hopefully he's not listening now, but I remember him being disrespectful to him and when he was a teenage boy, pray 1516 in the kitchen I can see it just with his words get mouthy disrespectful and I just sort of lost it like you will never speak to your mother. My wife that way.

In a sense, there was a sense to say she is of value much is because he's a mob it's because she's a woman and I think that stuck it so that I caught them off guard like okay this is real Vicki.

What's your counsel to parents as they think about your bringing your sons up, you gotta teach them how to respect one another how how boy should respect girls and how they should handle themselves around these issues. Why thinking or talking about chivalry and it's not a word that you hear much anymore.

It's it sent that sad to me to the conversation has to change. We have to even expand it because the truth is, we've got all sorts of things again happening in this generation that we didn't have to deal with in our generation are maybe were just starting to with their own sons that I think about like the trend of sex thing I think about you know, pornography, and I know we talked about an earlier episode how teenagers today don't even really think I am large that pornography is wrong thinking. Pornography is wrong and so one of the things we need to do with our sons is help them connect the dots that you know when you view pornography you are devaluing a woman and that we are made in God's image and you are showing disrespect and devaluing the dignity of that woman and it's not something they necessarily think about, and certainly you know I mean they're not hearing from their peers. But you know I think about stories of mom's youth shared.

You know their daughter as they saw their daughters found her son he saw their sons found in Saul you know where some sex thing was going on and that's become more common. One conversation that I know this was starting out by the time I guess my youngest son was coming down the pike of adolescence and he had a girl send him a picture of her and her will best friend and they were out of that shopping somewhere in trying on, of all things lingerie. Can you imagine, I mean he was, say, eighth or ninth grade and sent him and I can't remember for some of his friends, pictures, and so the conversation needs to be expanded that even if you have a situation where a young lady who is making cuts image is choosing to devalue herself. That doesn't mean that you play along with it because she still has tremendous worth and value, and the sad thing there is that she doesn't know that.

And so I don't expect that any young man is really gonna rise up in the middle school years and you know share the good news with this young lady that she hasn't dignity and worth and value that at the very least we need to make sure our boys know that all women need to be valued and respected and are made in the image of God, and it can get harder and harder for them and just to be honest with them about that because there are there's no shortage of opportunities for them. Unfortunately, you know, at least from what I'm hearing with accessing or having you know girls readily sex and images if they want want that to be done and so we we need to expand this conversation in regard to that to where that's included now under the umbrella of chivalry. Chivalry is no longer opening the door leading to enlightenment.

Step through in front of you are helping someone at the grocery store. Put bags in the back of the car, you know, this goes so much further than that because we can't compartmentalize that right. We can't say oh we show dignity and respect for these young ladies who view themselves with dignity and respect. Here's what you're saying. You're saying that we start with a baseline of saying son, listen, girls are our gods daughters. You gotta treat them with dignity and value and respect, and then the girls come along and they say oh no you don't write. In fact, treat me the opposite and so boys here, their dads or their mom's and one thing only you're the girl swim know we can do it this way. This is where I remember Dennis Rainey had written a book about dad's interviewing daughter states and the moms called and said lots all well and good for trying to protect your daughters. What about my 15-year-old son who's getting these things texted to him and he's got my supposed to do with that.

And so Dennis wrote the book aggressive girls, clueless boys and he would write to Proverbs 5, six and seven where the Bible says yes, there are going to be women who are going to present themselves to boys and say you don't have to treat me with dignity and respect. I'm here for you and that's where we gotta train our sons even when the girl is saying no, this is not what I want you have to say. Will this is what God wants to do what God wants, not what seems pleasurable to me or even what you're asking is seen Vicki, you're saying you stepped in as a mom because a lot of moms would pump that conversation to their husband say okay this is sort out of my territory you're the man. And this is my son but yet in your book you have got you what your conversations talk about sex respect with your son. So how do you do that as a mom I never had any problem doing that and I think one of the reasons as I started the conversations pretty young with my sons. It sounded something like you now.

By the time they were probably 8 to 10 years. All is like hey you know buddy, there's this word sex in your can hear it. You may have heard it already and I just want to make sure that you know what it means because it's something God created. And it's beautiful. It's between a husband and a wife that you can hear a lot of lies about this word sex and satellite just by saying the word you know and being able to start that conversation with them at a young age reduces any level of shame associated with sex because when were telling them the truth about it. There should be no shame in what God tells us it is for the confines of marriage and so it makes it easier and having future conversations because it's hard of moms starting to have his conversations when her sons, 13, 14, and hormones are raging in you and she's trying to work a partner just even say the word, much less start sharing, you know, consequences, fallout from sex outside of marriage and you and there's a lot to talk about and unpack here because the truth is, our Christian kids are having sex tape and one of the things were discovering is that most Christian parents are not talking about it with her children if they are.

It's one time it's not enough.

It's not ongoing and they certainly aren't talking about what happens if you do in fact have sex, so we really stink at that conversation because we assume because we told you the truth about sex then you know the truth, you're not going to have sex, you know, we've got to get better at this conversation and talking about the consequences. The fallout, but one of the things I talked about in this particular conversation as well, and maybe it was because of my own story that I was sensitive to this that I did have sex outside of marriage, and it ended up producing a pregnancy and I had an abortion at the age of 17 and it's a painful part of my past that it's a part of my past that God is redeemed and so I shared at various times with each of my children depending on their level of maturity and I prayed and asked Holy Spirit to direct me as far as will you tell me when I'm supposed to have this conversation and so I was able to share my own story that usually comes with consequences.

It's not as easy as it looks to just you know all of somebody's willing, then you know I everybody's doing mass I mean there are consequences. Consequences of STDs that are out there unplanned pregnancies like what I had and then the heartbreak when you know it at the time I didn't think abortion is wrong. I wasn't a believer and so the pain and assignment that came later, but to also cover with my sons that I regret that. However, I need you to know that God has redeemed to my past and so you know I think I have heard mothers at conferences.

They come in hesitant to talk to my child about that because then they think you know well mom did that or she's giving me an excuse or God will forgive me and I and you know I tell moms that's up to you. I don't endorse moms sharing details of things only for the purpose of sharing regret.

You know consequences, but certainly don't be sharing details of you know that that's just too much for any child to have to unpack, but I do think there's some power in our children hearing the regret firsthand from us but also they need to hear the hope right because the reality is most of them and I know this is hard for your listeners and most of them are going to have sex before they're married. We hope they wouldn't. I would pray the statistics continue to go down that at the end of the day it's not realistic to think in 50% are going to show up on their wedding day. Having saved themselves and so we have got to be able to talk openly about these things with our children but to also make sure that they know that God can redeem anything in our past, however, that doesn't mean it doesn't come with out consequences do you think the conversation about sex is different with a daughter that it is with Sunday because her daughter is going to have to carry more responsibility if there isn't an unplanned pregnancy and and so I think one of the things I'd like to see happen, especially since I believe are called to be very pro-life and protect the unborn is that we make sure our sons realize that their potential for impregnating someone is far greater then a one time pregnancy other young lady and so they have enough, and yet they've detach themselves from that in the sense that that's not my problem.

You know, and so we need to have be having a conversation with our son that that is actually your problem to it is not just a problem that sin and that consequence is also consequences that will follow you whether you believe it or not. So we need to to put some responsibility on their shoulders for that as well. I when you talk to them about STDs. I mean, that is huge out there that could impact the future of their marriage and that relationship on down the road and and so there's all sorts of issues related to it. When the conversations I had with my boys is when I wrote the original versions of the book I discovered in some of my background research the link in the hormone oxytocin and I never heard about this hormone oxytocin that is actually it is a hormone that signals and mothers labor when the baby is about to be born.

It also signals a letdown of milk its past in breast milk to the baby and I call it the bonding and trust warm, but it's also the hormone that is exchanged for sexual activity and so when I shared with my sons, is that to me the science backs up God's biblical standard that sex be saved for marriage because he tells us in marriage.

The two shall become one and so you know when there is that oxytocin is exchange with someone who's not your spouse. A bonding occurs, especially for a lot of females, and this is where we see where it's hard in a relationship. In high school, college, whatever that all this casual sex. It's going on. Sex can't really be recreational for women without at some point in having an emotional impact and so far, sons. The same is true if they are basically swapping that hormone sharing it with any girl that comes around. I mean it's going to create an you know all sorts of fallout on down the road in the future.

And so again, you know, I know that it's hard to get our boys especially to think, to the future and you know we talked about some of the frontal lobe that for our young men that at the frontal lobes of their brains are fully developed until almost on some neuroscientists say mid 20 some of her even as late as late as late 20s, whereas for girls, it's in the late teen years and said this is where they really begin to connect. You know consequences to actions.

I know a lot of moms are listening right now. You and dad saying this explains so much. Yeah, my boys, and some even with my husband okay but you know this is where it's hard to get our sons to really understand that decisions you make today can impact your future tomorrow. Yet I think it's really important, as you said, I think I understand Bob I love your opinion is like it isn't just a woman the oxytocin and the bonding happens.

It's really not much different for men there's a bonding for her to weave use the term soul tie now because it's more than physical. It's more the emotional it's actually spiritual, even soulless in nature because it's such a beautiful intimate act a guy gave us that you're sorta given your soul to somebody and there's a tie there and here's the thing. What you what you talk about is that's true with porn as well.

Yes, you think always a real person just foreknown up. There's a tie there's a bonding going on even brain chemistry can prove that in one of things I found very interesting in your book was you, your son writes a letter. Yes, at the end and talking about that a little bit. That was such a beautiful letter and so honest talk about that little bit what what happened there would that mean so in between writing you know the original book and then writing this updated version in here. Mind you, I am writing a book. Five conversations you must have with your son. I feel like wow I am one of few moms out here that's actually you know, having conversations on a fairly regular basis about the dangers of pornography, sex outside of marriage, casual sex on and on. The list goes on and yet my son right after he graduated college was newly married shared with us that he had a porn addiction and he and his wife had to come together in the sense of figuring out how where we go from here.

Now I will tell you that was humbling for me because I moms first thought is weirded I got wrong. What part of that conversation did I leave out to talk about it enough and I just beat myself up this letter that you speak out that I had his permission and he actually asked if he could write a letter to mom's, which was even more powerful to me and I wept when I read it because he he really answer that question to me like what could I have done differently, and this may sound hopeless to moms, but he said nothing. You did everything you were supposed to do you are having the conversations. This is how powerful it is. He said that at the end of the day only tell you what I caught from you. I remember your story. Mom of redemption. I remember you telling me that it's never too late to begin again. I remember you telling me how God works that out in your own life and so I wasn't afraid to get help and it's really one of the main reasons I wanted help at this age, and I didn't continue in the center and so that meant the world to me because it reminded me that at the end of the day. We are called to be obedient to teach our kids use Teresa Stewart's leave with her just on loan to us. That's why it's important we learn to let go and we need to let go. They belong to the Lord and so I was able even though I think our nature is moms especially is to always think I could have done more, and it wasn't enough. Send for the most part I was able to say you know I did the best job that I could had these conversations that you know what my son has a story to tell. Today my son at the age of 26 is leading men's groups that his church is meeting one-on-one with countless men who had the same addiction both in the church and outside of the church. Some that he's been able to even talk to them about the gospel in the Lord and so he is walking in trees today and not and he'll tell you to all this will be a lifelong struggle.

He's very honest about his lifelong struggle is wise on a social media he's not you know it. He's got a phone on lock down. I mean he's knows his his triggers as limits. All of that and he has a son now and so you know that's that's powerful for him to be able to also tell his story some day to his own son. And I think sometimes we put pressure ourselves and our kids can't handle this.

You know I remember guest on family life to the years ago Michael DeMarco said most Christian parents are trying to teach your kids how to be some avoiders and since concealers yesterday. Then we do want our kids to avoid sin writing that's one of the things we should teach him but since concealers is not what we want them to be. Remember what David said when I concealed my sins what happened. My my bones did away so he said what were not teaching our kids to do is how to abuse and confess your sins and repent her and the way we teach our kids how to be sin confessors and sundry printers is by demonstrating to them what that looks like confessing our own sin and repented of our own sin so that they see what your son saw your story of redemption. He knew had good God work in your life, and he saw oh I can be honest about my issue and God can still work in them and through that and I think with our kids as we raise them as we have these conversations. Here's how you treat a young woman. Here's what the boundary should be when it comes to sex. Here's what happened with you and that's gotta be an when you fail when you make mistakes because they are going to fail and we are going to fall weather that's looking at pornography or whether that's lusting in their heart which Jesus says that's committing adultery. Whatever it is they've got be able to say here's what it looks like to confess that in a safe place and here's what it looks like to turn from that and here's where I can find hope in. Here's where I can find freedom they can warning that pattern in their lives.

And that's one of the conversations that we can have with our kids as were raising and I actually did tell him you know, in his high school years. After reading so many statistics terrified you know about them outside say if you ever find yourself in the situation I would want you know you can come to me or your father. We will get you the help that you need.

There's no shame in that. And he said that help to just to be able to hear that I wasn't endorsing and concealing, you know, go it, go ahead and we we're in this together and help you. I want to things that came to mind as you is your sharing that Bob is just that I think a lot of times were good at behavior modification strategies with our kids. You know there's weekly, like a checklist outweighing like just even I think I should be getting these books I I know for a lot of moms and I would be one of them. Just give me the formula and I want to check out the blame had a nice would it be nice and then you knew guaranteed you know money back. Return follow this really happy that always great yes and so you know, I see where I I wish my son hadn't had that struggle but yet look who he is today and look at the impact he's having on other men's lives and marriages are being saved and more importantly his faith. He has a relationship with the Lord. That is so solid that he might not have had, he would not of had because he was concealing sand and we all know that our relationship is fractured.

You know when when works hiding sent but one of the things I I talk about the very end of the book is this whole idea, behavior modification, and yes, like when your kids leave with car keys in your ear terrified of coursing and I would always yell this ridiculous phrase like make choices okay. I thought a lot about this because my lung youngest child, the one I'm speaking of, he's my mini me. He's really the one that I made poor decisions in high school and college, and in so I could relate to a lot of what I saw in him, and I knew that the make good choices. Worked with my daughter for because she's naturally she was a do-gooder and so I would say this to my son and then it hit me one day behave or not modification is not the right incentive to even be a good kid right and so I talked to him one day about instead of yelling behind you make good choices is really thin of the day. How many kids they show up at the party and they discover all the friends are drinking you nine somebody hands him a shot glass say oh no, thanks.

I'm in a pass because right before I left Alameda make good choices.

There's not to do it but I would tell my son remember the cross.

Remember the cross and so this whole idea of are we going to focus more on behavior modification or heart examination and when I sat down my son and said you have to come to a place Hayden when you care more about the condition of your heart than I do, and that has to be your decision that you truly you must guard your heart.

It is the wellspring of life, but you have to decide that you want to guard and protect your heart. It has to mean more to you and in doing so, the best way is to remember the cross because when we remember the cross we can't help but go back to what she did for us personally and it's not work like I said every time, but if you can at least get your kids thinking along the lines of remembering the cross. Rather than focusing more on this list of this is how you treat women with respect. This is you know if they're doing that examining their hearts on a daily basis as an exercise in their stitch spiritual exercise in their lives. All of that fall into place. When we survey the wondrous cross on which the Prince of glory died. All the same things that charm us most. We sacrifice them to explode.

That's what the hymn writer said Vicki you give a lot of moms and dads love the courage of these conversations, we need to be having with our kids in these books are a great tool thank you for being with us for having thanks for writing of the books we've got copies of both Bob conversations you must have with your son, and five conversations you must have with your daughter go to our family life today resource Center online@familylifetothe.com you can order the book from us online or you can call one 800 FL today to order again the website is family life to you.com or call 1-800-358-6329 2000 F as in family L as in life, amend the word today. Get a copy of either or both of Vicki's books and start having these conversations with your kids, nor hope you're at family life is that these kinds of conversations that you get the suit in and be a part of our providing you with practical biblical help and hope as you raise your kids. David Robbins was the personal family life is here with us and wherever you are in your parenting or grandparenting journey we need help.

Don't feel it every day that's for sure you reflect back. Listen to this conversation on the months leading up to me becoming president of family life and Dennis Rainey was introduced to meet a variety of influential Christian leaders and as a spent time with each one, and I would ask them the question from their perspective.

What was family life's greatest contribution to the body of Christ into God's kingdom and one leader that I really respected very candidly said no family life to him was there to practically guide us in those moments. Most places in life where you just stop and go. Oh boy. I've never been here before and I have no clue what to do and you know if M life. It is part of who we are to help you engage your closest relationships to help have conversations with your spouse and I certainly hope you have conversations with kids. Those moments where you go over know what do I do and we're here to help you well and and you're exactly right. This is what were all about your family life to help you navigate these moments in a marriage and the family. When you need someone who can coach who can offer you practical, biblical help and hope for your marriage and for your family. That's what family life is all about and were grateful by the way, for those of you who have partnered with us over the years so that we can reach more people more often and effectively develop godly marriages and families. If you can help with the donation today would love to say thank you by sending you a copy of my new book which is called love like you mean it, it's all about understanding love at a biblical level rather than thinking about it in cultural terms. I'm convinced that if couples can wrap their heads around a biblical view of love. They can have the kind of marriage that God has always intended for them to have and it took a deeper level of love than most of us have ever experienced in marriage. The book is our thank you gift when you make a donation to support the ongoing work of this ministry.

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Thanks in advance for whatever you're able to do. We appreciate hearing from you and we hope you can join us again tomorrow when were to talk about the challenge. It is for a young person who's growing up in a situation where you spend a couple weeks with mom in a couple weeks with dad and they live in separate locations and maybe there are stepparents involved, and what happens when the values in the homes are different. That's what Melody Fabian experienced and she joins Ron deal tomorrow to talk about how she experienced that. Hope you can tune in.

I want to thank our engineer today. Keith Lynch along with our entire broadcast production team on behalf of our hosts Dave and Ann Wilson on Bob Lapine see you back next time for another edition of family life today, family life, to use the production of family life of Little Rock Arkansas crew ministry help for today hope for tomorrow