Moving Up and Moving Apart

Matt and Sarah Hammett have been married for almost 2 decades now and like every couple they still have conflict we have an amazing marriage but when we hit conflict. It's terrible and it's toxic and in earlier days I would see the first 12 years. It was probably 10 days, and months was toxic conflict. This is family life today. Our hosts are Dave and Ann Wilson and Bob Lapine can find us online@familylifetoday.com having conflict in marriage does not mean your marriage is bad door there's something wrong. It means you need to learn how to resolve conflict what the Bible says about will talk with Matt and Sarah Hammett about them today. Stay with us and welcome to family life to the links for joining us. I don't have a roasters realizes but Dave and I have something in common, though it was a lot of things we do have is getting be good but I don't know where you're going. We were both in high school in in bands were either you're in a band of high school. Yeah, I was in the daydreamers that I was in and we got ourselves a fortnight for may have been a bad day you are the coolest. I was visiting our band was called ambrosia Hill until there was an ambrosia. Then we had to pull off of that right so we were ambrosia music like the food of the gods because that's what I'm Rozier is the food of the gods. Then we pivoted and we became flat River Junction during the country brought me here or drunk was our band and then we started doing covers of 50s and 60s, and we became the echoes I wanted us to be the original artists because I wanted to put out a cover record by the original artists that have people think you know what was the original art. When we were anyway you you get how you are. I'm guessing the lead singer. I was the lead singer in the front man and played guitar occasionally, but sometimes just went for Mick Jagger on the thing and just was there with my microphone and I confess that Dave is three years older than me and so his band played at my middle school whatever life that might've been the highlight of our right there and tell you I thought he is the hottest, coolest guys everything in my life think I've ever told you that actually he knew it. That's the first I've heard that I'm to put on the jacket and see what happens.

My mom was like our manager, whatever you know and the guys were whatever they wanted, but I had a Nehru jacket I wanted and they were with the high collar and my mom was like no you're not getting those will be out of style in so thing is we wanted to be rock stars.

Yes, we never work right and we have a real rock star right to it wasn't just a dream, its reality may get a Grammy nominated rock Dove award Moody cares about them is happy. His wife is here to talk about that would have met heaven and Sarah in the studio today welcome. Thank you. Thank you. Glad to hear it. If you don't know.

We do know St. Israel Alito Ohio yeah you know NR from Finley Ohio. So think this really was, was a band we knew back in the you know the mid-90s when you guys started in the yeah yeah you are like from Ohio so we were proud of that. But let me just give you proper introduction 20 years leading Sanctus real yeah 20 years is good good good 20 years now your marriage if you have four kids live in a Nashville still writing songs and music still touring yeah and I wrote a book called lead me, and we should mention that the two of you speak at our weekend to remember marriage getaways and were glad to have you guys as part of that team that's awesome reported that the more things you know, I didn't realize until I read the book, which by the way, great book. It's like a memoir of your life and it's very real and authentic. Thank you yeah and how you started sorta early in the band days on the road and it was interesting to read asking this is a lifestyle.

Being a rock star all that it's you know that Bob and I dreamed this is where I got there but no, that's exactly ambrosia. I will tell you it is pretty good feeling to have anybody and then sing your song you known and you have hundreds of people or thousands of people that makes you feel like the thing that you created that God put in your heart you know that he created through you that you got to sing meant something to somebody and so that that part of it really is exciting. It's fun to perform with the band but those behind-the-scenes moments. You know when you're not on stage not singing the song. The writing the songs come a lot of sacrifice and some very difficult trials of just what life on the road is really like, especially in your marriage. Let me ask you, Sarah. What's it like to be married to the rock star in the beginning they were just kids and we were having fun and it was fun to travel and I went on the road with him for 20 years full-time for five years and it was fun. We had a great adventure together and I think I put all of my dreams on hold in just chased his with hands so it was fine it was difficult getting married and getting straight on the road because we have a normal marriage we had done my cute living in paint is sleeping in a van at time it was hot and one of the things I love about your book is you when you talk about those days. You're very honest and we love honesty and your so real that I mean it was pretty cool. Not for you but to read about fights, conflicts, even intense on you know you're walking off the stage and you guys are yelling each other talk about that.

That's real life whether rockstar or not, but how'd you manage that and it was difficult because we would just let it go from being on stage performing to all the sudden the reality of like you know my wife has needs is not just about me being on the road performing it's about me doing life with my wife and I have to find a way to learn how to not just focus on my career behind my focus on this new marriage that God's given me and at times to be totally honest and agree about the books course that I didn't know how I'd wasn't focused all the time on this. It is a story in the book where you know I'm just like all foreign around Sara's been working merchandise all day for pretty much free, admit five bucks or something. Whatever we can afford to give her the time and you know I come by holding up a five figure box was nothing yet. I was just it was fine. Part of the team right and so you know, but I come by here and I have a have like a coffee in my hand and and should be like, well, did you bring me one thing to me is easy to wait you know who I am. So it was hard for me definitely to try to like try pull my head out of the career dream and then pull it into this marriage will straight from your mom's house to my house meaning like you have any transition time. It was straight from there. We were young we are so young that were 19 married women 21 and I think yeah you just figuring it out, but fighting on the road was complicated. I'm not one to really hide how I feel and sell if I needed to say hey selfish and not thinking about me. I think to it was hard for him because he didn't conflict. That way, that wasn't the way his family didn't they sorted hidden or brush on the rug and let it go and I'm like I can't live with his wage. I need to feel known and loved. Here it is now, let's talk about it, but for him.

He went to escape from it and it would just escalate and it would just explode.

Yes, I will move from a bedroom on mom's house to bucket seat in the van that are shared with woman who you know was competent.

As part of life. Before that, for me, all conflict is bad and simply couldn't find the imagine even intimacy. There's an intimacy either because there's nowhere. Dave speaks around the pastor and so there was a night that my car broke down and I couldn't get to this big fundraiser. He was speaking at. I finally got there after I had walked a mile and I was muddying megacities is easy and nice. The reason the car broke down was my fault. Can't fix the car by putting a C clamp on this very important part vice grips hottie, elevated up to where it really was so sorry, I got to the event late in Davis frustrated because I wasn't there.

As I walked in, disheveled, angry, upset because he wasn't taking care of me and I felt like the world was all about him. This woman came up to me and she sent you. Dave Wilson's wife and I said yeah I am she said it must be something to be married to him how it is that people will come up to me and say beautiful Tsonga has enveloped them for you and I'm like a tear like this song came out of my hearts crying even after the song. It still hurts cry like I think everyone thought it was a magic wand and I was like now it came after a heated fight where I still felt misunderstood.

These words were awesome but it was like I needed it to be reality the enemy might sound and fix everything, referring to is leading yes yes the song lead me exactly this song happened 15 years into your time on the road with Sanctus real, this was a long process of frustration and feeling alienated and feeling abandoned and be at home taking care of kids and having to take somebody the emergency room while your husband's wrote all of that stuff. I mean, I can even remember I was pregnant for Bellin. We have a son is really sick and you will read about that in the book, but I pregnant for Bellin.

I think I'm like eight months pregnant. There's a tornado coming. He's on the road.

I'm down in the basement of my two other kids pregnant with this sick baby that could come any minute tornado comes by floods the basement wall and in it and I'm just like what I have no young man's companies. He's not there and it was time after time, our pipes would break and it just it was years and years and years of feeling that loneliness of doing it myself.

And then when he would come home. He was tired and I think you know when you do what he does.

Sometimes there's veils of your eyes that you can't see things in a certain way.

He couldn't understand any couldn't connect with me and what I needed and I think a lot of that had to do with the position we were living two different lives really, you know I'm job at a church and it's like a remix food for so I mean it's hard work done what they say. I got when you just go your full yeah I like so there's a lot of room for the work. Now granted, we were in all a lot. All those years driving bans literally through the night ourselves, doubting our own gear setting up stages meeting and greeting so was like I was working very hard, but there also was a lot of reward where Sarah was at home working very hard for very little to no reward. And so I walking the door thinking you to just rest at home and I walk into a pile of laundry and all you got was going on. He was happened you know the house is blown up. I just didn't have that empathy to walk in the door and say what do you need from me. How can I give how I serve on think I'm to walk and pop on the college were just going to be marital bliss. She's like now the diapers at your chest it out the door. Are your turn. It's like you have a moment where you're like this is what I imagine dry and it's totally selfish were selfish as people and so getting to a place where I could see my selfishness and learn how to put her first without her having to be her wounds to show me that of course he says that's a lifelong process but it had to start somewhere, and I think the lead me was the response to one of those moments where I first was able to say how do I take my first real major steps you had not arrived when you wrote believe me you were at the beginning of what has been an ongoing journey absolutely try to embody what that song is all daily journey to try really try my best to own up to the reality of who I am versus who I want to fill in a lot of ways it really is similar to a pastor's life yet is public or you know in my as we work with Detroit Lions for 33 seasons as their chaplain is really similar to a pro athletes life. Your as an athlete. Your life is public. The public loves you will not be tried, but they love you places that I can remember coming home from road games with the Lions feel exactly that. I walk in the inner again. I'm only gone the weekend but I meant to say things met with expansion people take care of you. Everybody's catering to you on the plane in the hotel and the stadium you get on the plane to come home but I walk in the house when you said that my thigh felt same thing and when she's angry that I'm gone. And all these things are going on and is also sometimes handed me a baby. Matt, my life is important. Everything you've got here. I provided because all those people out there think I'm something you don't appreciate me so I know Matt you I'm guessing you felt me things I did, but I'd love to hear Sarah yes your you know at home, dealing with this yeah how did you mean I'm kind of sassy said and I'm not going to hide who I am.

I have always said to Mathew I don't want walk through life with you. I'm sorry to settle for that. I want to dance like I want to feel cohesive and I don't feel cohesive I feel the opposite and very stubborn and I persevere and I will push and push to get to a place of feeling like were dancing and you know I think that it sounds like you are pushing for quite a while without him hearing yes how did you get into here.

Well I think it's only him to be honest, I don't think it's the way I have said it because I've tried it every which way I try it nice. I tried aggressive.

I try it you know differently how many women can relate this yes K knowing every time it was not understand, and so I think for me that day. He wrote that song and we did find a level of understanding. I feel like it was just something that God listed and gave him, and I remember signing. I was thinking back like I used to cry and cry and cry and say why did you give me this hard hard marriage like so cultlike you have to use this if you're going to go through all this pain. Please use it. I'm not leaving him so unity with that I would just do something because outside of conflict. We have an amazing marriage but when we hit conflict. It's terrible and it's toxic and in earlier days, I would say the first 12 years. It was probably 10 days, and months was toxic conflict, which were probably the days he was saying he was on the road and we may be on the phone and it wasn't feeling and now I think slowly course we still have moments where we get stuck and we say the things we don't. We wish we would've never said it still as a four-year-old after we've walked it all but it becomes further and farther between. And we hang on to that so it comes back to you… It sounds like really got a hold of your heart. Yeah, I think it's it's the willingness to step outside of your own reality and embrace your spouse's reality is your own. And that's a really difficult thing to do, but I think that's what ultimately were called to do for spouse right for the lid on our lives for our wives, and I think part of being learning to be a man is actually being willing to not only is it denying yourself means also denying your own reality in a way because we all see things differently will want to hold onto the way we see conflict how it should be resolved how we should communicate how you should want to dance through life. But what if I'm not the kind of dancer she wants you know it's like you she accept me that way or can I say. Her reality of how she wants me to dance how she wants me to communicate how she desires for me to mend her wounds and conflict, even when I don't understand completely why she's hurt when she's hurt or how she responds to me.

Can I embrace that reality is my own because I love her reality and who she is more than I love myself talk about the first time you saw her so she's describing what she wants. I'm thinking bro, you should assume that you saw the first time you saw her so yeah so you have the for the very first time I saw Sarah. It was at this festival we were at a new up-and-coming band and Literally in the day and that night Thursday's on stage doing the headlining set and the lights are shining out of the audience and I see this girl in bare feet and overalls just dance and smile and I literally thought to myself like I need to add my life.

Mrs. carefully ran a carefree woman in and out as they get a like I was always kind is up high people pleaser I gravitate towards kind of shame. And like in you. Now go inward with my feelings and and she just like all out there.

You know I like men.

That's amazing. That is, I want to let go. I love how carefree should forget Mary, but then after that Mary should come in the bed like Blackfeet. You know like being outside and rub them all my lags, you know yeah yeah like a little OCD's try to be loving and like this letter yeah and she actually is that this is funny I will give you and this one. She's to chew God doing their job and actually take it at night and stick on the bed frame that's too far free.

I will read and so yeah it is so funny because yeah, when you see that thing you like. That's what I need in my life. Is that really what you want it all and it's like sometimes it's not what you want is what you need enough course sticking gum on you know and all the things that I do you know those things. Of course, over time, we grow up we change and and my feet are much cleaner was interesting yeah absolutely yes the governor bed anymore, but it is interesting because still it's like we said, I do this thing. Do we really say I do do we know what we said do do we keep doing and yeah so I still do. Thank you. I will do. But this is so true for all of us. We see things I saw things in Maryam that are different than me, that I thought this will complement me. This will balance I'm I wasn't thinking a cognitively I was thinking that's missing that will complete me and then you you Mary and all of a sudden what you appreciated in small doses. Is there all the time and now it's like I liked a little of that but I don't know that I wanted all the time and with full force like it's coming right now.

I think a lot of couples when they face that they go what what'd I miss her what I thought we were going to have this and now it's what what was attractive is now annoying and were surprised by the yeah so given the way conflict because happen for you guys when you're speaking a week and remember marriage get away and you're talking about how to resolve conflict in your marriage.

Are you speaking I'm going all you need to do this to all yeah every time you fight this morning. We deftly did invite this morning as a unified this morning up there. You know and then I did some repenting on the way here Dave so fresh it's so funny because we always joke did we can remember that every couple always seems to have that flight. Like right before this was the speed read for the get there but you know you can take that unit exited zeta says it's amazing we get to go in at night. I would say this about, we can remember as well and being here today. How amazing is it that we get to take this pain that we have in our lives and that God gives it purpose.

It's incredible. And every time I speak we can or member especially on conflict is my favorite one. We do we fight to because I get the opportunity to not only share that you're not alone. We fight to the show. Our scars but also give those practical little things that were learning along the way that have helped us so much that how did you get to the point is every couples has to get there where you actually love those things that drove you crazy. It is funny because those things. After all 19 years of marriage know those things. I did look at the other day and I said you know is so interesting because there are some of those things about her carefree nest that just like they beat even if they drive you crazy to become home. You know it's like the type thing that time does it's like it's kind of endearing that it drives you crazy Nazi gutters like at first it was really endearing just romantically.

Nothing negative and thousands like all negative and now at the phase where it's home to me and I would want anything else and but we had to push to get massively hard times to get to that place where it feels like home because I we got to a place where we help like we might not push you towards feeling yet the remote those moments right, we think, do we want to keep pushing.

Can we keep climbing. Do we give up to throne the doll and I think like the beauty that I see now II do think now that feeling does that deep feeling of what I put my head in her neck and I smell her hair or just in like that.

That's is the one person in my life that could give me that sense of just being my own mother where we are and I think man what would I do without that.

What if I wouldn't push through what if either moments. I could never imagine feeling that beauty ever again and now it's like because of those moments when I thought I'd never feel it again feeling it again is me, the more powerful even today, though I'm still struggling as a man to let go of my own reality and desire of how I want her to be her to speak to me her to have conflict with me.

It's like how the way I think things should go. We still battle those things. And every day I still to make a decision am I going to be willing to live my own comforts my own realities all my own ideals down to embrace you know what it is that she needs for me and the server to tell you here and you describe home, which by the way, is a song lyric when you said that you know we we want to throw away the crazy but it's home made me think of the couple's listening right now are ready give up. Don't give up just here and you described that mean you can feel and you can read it in your book. The pain in the struggle and the work you've gone through it didn't happen in a day year with years, maybe decades, and now you can look and go.

I'm so glad I hold on. I literally thought of my mom and dad who quit the M 60 I want to say hello but over 60 and still feel that XMI so I wish mom and dad would've fought for home because my home broke and that's why have a passion to help homes and family life is that's what we will do give hope and help, but I just want to say that couple don't quit. I know it's hard I know right now so dark is you just want to walk out. Don't walk out there is a child like me hope and mom and dad make it you can make it.

Jesus can resurrect a dead marriage. You just heard her story years as the next one hang out. This is a book what you've written is a book that will encourage couples so good you can persevere. Hang in there work through it press him.

We got copies of maps book in our family like today resource Center. It's called lead me and I will encourage listeners get a copy of this book go to family life today.com to order a copy for yourself may be a couple copies so you can share it with other people, you know, again, the book is called lead me it's a compelling story of their life, their marriage for most of family life to.com or call one 800 FL today to get a copy in the phone number 1-800-358-6329 that's one 800 F as in family L as in life and in the word today. Now we know that back to school is looking different for lots of different people all across the country.

Depending on where you live and what's going on in your part of the world you're back to school may be similar to what it's been in previous years.

It may be completely different to what you've experienced in previous years. Here's one thing we think ought to be part of your back-to-school routine no matter what's happening with school this year. We think as a family. You will be praying together with your kids to start the school day than earlier this week we talked to Holly Melton who's written a book on playing with your kids before school.

It's a guidebook.

It kind of spells out for you what to do weekend and week out during the school year were making the book available to you this week.

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Again, if you can make a donation today will send you Holly Melton's book on playing with your children before school is our thank you gift for your support. Donate online@familylifeto.com or call one 800 FL today to donate. We look forward to hearing from you and thanks in advance for your partnership with us. Your family life and we hope you can be back with us again tomorrow will continue our conversation with Matt and Sarah Hammett talking about the realities of their marriage. The challenges they faced and how God has met them in the midst of those challenges can tune in for that maven get Matt to sing a song for us tomorrow so tune in for that.

I hope you can join us think our engineer today.

Keith Lynch along with our entire broadcast production team on behalf of our hosts David and Wilson on Bob Payne. See you next time for another edition of family life today, family life, to use a production of family life of Little Rock, Arkansas crew ministry help for today hope for tomorrow