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September 16, 2020 2:00 am
Women of Joy conference founder Phil Waldrep talks about the aftermath of a friend's betrayal. After asking for his friend's resignation, Waldrep recalls the long journey he took to find healing from this hurt, all the while holding out hope that someday he and his friend would be reconciled. Waldrep tells how examining some restored Japanese pottery at an antique store one day taught him a lesson about reconciliation.
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If someone has been untrustworthy.
If they betrayed us. Should we ever trust him again and if so how do we know when it's safe to trust someone you're still Walter I think the traders will betray again if they do not see the sinfulness of what they did or they don't see the error of their ways because a betrayer who is unrepentant will justify his behavior.
You know how many times have we all heard the person who has been unfaithful in the essay will my wife just wasn't meeting my needs are. My husband wasn't meeting my needs and what they're trying to do is to justify their sin. This is family life to date. Our hosts are Damon and Wilson on Bob Lapine. You can find us online@familylifetodate.com how can trust be rebuilt in a relationship when there's been betrayal and how can we know if it's safe to trust someone again will explore that today with Phil Walter stay with us and welcome to family life to day. Thanks for joining us were talking this week about what's got to be one of the hardest subjects to talk about one of the hardest pains for any person to live through and that's the pain of betrayal when trust is been violated. When this happens in a marriage relationship. It's devastating when it happens between parents and kids. It's devastating. It rocks your world. I was talking to mom and dad recently and one of their adult kids had been keeping stuff secret and lying about what was going on in these parents are devastated and this relationship with this child wondering how do we ever get to where we were and where we'd like to be.
Again, this is the real stuff of relationships and of life again when you watch other people go through betrayal or hurt.
It's easy to stand away and go man I don't know why they're so hurt.
It's not that bad. And then when it happens to you and you feel it in your soul. It's like oh my goodness this is why relationships are so valuable when somebody you love hurts you to deploy. It isn't just get over it. Right now the journey is really hard is when someone hurts your child because his parents we love. We protect our children and someone when someone is betrayed or hurt our child.
I think there's something that rises up in nice, especially his moms probably that is hard to forgive that betrayer Phil Waldrep is joining us this week to help us navigate the path of restoration when there's been betrayal welcome back to family life today, feel, think about always going to be here. Phil is the author of a book on this subject called beyond betrayal.
He is a speaker and writer. He eased host conferences all over the country. Some of our blisters have been to women of joy, conferences, or to the gridiron men's events that he does. It's a pretty good title, by the way grid iron from a chaplain, a former quarterback here in this book beyond betrayal as you've already shared this week came out about an experience with the Ministry associate, a longtime friend who betrayed the ministry, betrayed your confidence betrayed your trust.
There was a confrontation you thought maybe he had repented that it turns out he hadn't. You ultimately had to ask for his resignation. Did you continue to have any interaction with, or any face-to-face with this guy while you're on this journey of trying to deal with your own emotions, very little and it was more his choice. We did go to the same church at the time and that made it rather difficult because I felt there was some things that I knew that were legally, confidentially, I couldn't share. Secondly, I did not want to wound his family and he didn't have children, but I do want to want his wife, and I didn't want to wound his friends and one of the painful chapters was initially and I say initially because over time.
It changed my pastor didn't believe me, which was very very painful mutual friends did not believe what believe you. I mean, people would come and say it so he resigned from limit what happened. What would how would you answer that what happened question I would say he resigned from the ministry I didn't feel I had to give everyone an explanation he felt he did. And some of the things that he shared he really didn't attack me on a character basis.
It was just more of the we had a parting of the waves and then as you note. Word filtered that there was more to the story than met the eye. People began to ask and people began to say and I did finally have to come to the place with particular my pastor the time who today is a very dear friend and who has made it real clear to me.
In later years has come to me and asked for my forgiveness because he he did not see what I saw and again I think is very important.
Sometimes some betrayals are very public, you know, everybody knows some betrayals are very private and unless you choose to tell the whole story publicly, which is not wise in every case.
Sometimes it may be, but not wise. He was not a threat to anyone else.
He was not a threat to children. It was nothing that I would either be legally, ethically or even spiritually bound to disclose for me I needed to heal and I didn't want to have to deal with a lot of explanations so I didn't have a church family to surround me during that time my wife and I chose to go to another church and I'm to be very quick again to say that the pastor, the people of that church. I think without a single exception, over time, came back, but if they hadn't we been okay. It would've been okay but I think betrayers if you give them enough time.
As a rule, they betray other people you know and fight. I had this conversation of the day a man came to see me in our office, and you know I'm not a great personal counselor I needed today that that's just not my gift. But this man came to see me I doing very well and he said, in my office and he shed tears and he said to me he said I just can't believe I'm sitting here telling you my wife is had an affair. She has betrayed me and just sharing his pain and I need to confess to you I didn't shed any tears and he said how could she do this to me before I thought I said you know I think I remember that's what your first wife said when she said in that chair and you had an affair and he looked at me and he said I know but this is different. I said no, it's not different, and I use that illustration to illustrate betrayers if they don't address their sin will betray other people and now he is the betrayed rather than the betrayer. Now I was more sympathetic and is a conversation went on but as you know, when you deal with men. Sometimes the best way is I had on that to get his attention. While he did get his attention, because all of a sudden he's like oh this is what she felt because he felt his. I don't think betrayers set out to heart people not in most cases. Most affairs are just it it's not I want to hurt my wife. It's just that I want to do this and have my marriage and my family as well. And the devil gives you many reasons why your sin is justified. He will tell you why it's okay. And of course, and I always remind people about any sinful behavior, but particularly unfaithfulness or betrayal. The devil will whisper in your ear. Nobody will ever know. But the minute you fall into that sin. He starts broadcasting it everywhere he make sure everyone knows I'm think about the couples I know where she start and come to church by yourself and people tend so where's your husband and she's having to explain, do I say he moved out. What do I tell navigating the path of of healing and protection and not saying too much, not being dishonest at the same time same time you want you want to hurt them as you've been betrayed. And so, in the church. Here's how we do it we don't gossip we use it as a prayer requests or need to pray for Bob. Oh really why it well. Bob just did this to me in this domain and we thought we cloak it like it's okay button really is and is no broadcast around and you have to remember when people ask in church life and ideas imported to be reminded as those of us who are in the body of Christ when church when there is that single mom comes, you just may want to say you doing okay you give them an opportunity but you don't have to, you know, suddenly, try to get into all the gory details and for sure you don't go share in one of the things that I don't know how I would respond now if social media had been present at the time I went through it because people can, you know, it's given everyone a the ability to share information and to put I heard in the rumors and one thing in the body of Christ. I think it's important for us to know we truly pray for people but we don't have to go and destroy people and we don't have to go and share all the gossip I want to go back to something he said he said betrayers will be training necessary content and so I'm thinking people listening and thinking owe their husband or their spouse came back and said this is happening.
I got caught, but this isn't going to happen again, but it doesn't seem like there's been any real spiritual repentance should they be worried well I think we all should probably be concerned but let me clarify. I think betrayers will betray again if they do not see the sinfulness of what they did or they don't see the error of their ways because of betrayer who is unrepentant will justify his behavior. He will you know how many times have we all heard the person who has been unfaithful in the essay will my wife just wasn't meeting my needs are.
My husband wasn't meeting my needs and what you're trying to do is to justify their sin so warning lights going off exact happening exactly so if someone is truly broken and repented. You know Jesus said we forgive one time right know Jesus said 7×70. I think we always are willing to forgive but again trust has to be earned and for healthy relationships. Sometimes we have to set those boundaries, you know, I have a again friends who who recently have gone through this and it just happened to be the lady where the man had had an affair works with and I had to turn to the Mennonites that you need to quit your job and he's like well I can't quit my job. I am making good money.
I said no if you want your marriage to restore the resort. You cannot work in that environment with her and it was a test for him because he thought he was going to be strong enough to get help restore the marriage and stay in an and I said no because as long as she's there. There will always be a temptation and he chose to leave his job that did so much for their marriage because his wife saw at that point he was really going to try so first step in trust. But you're right, I think you have to be aware but I betrayer who does not see what he did as sin and wrong and deal with it is going to turn around and be betrayed again. Go back to the story of Judas. We forget that when Judas went back to the leaders.
They basically said we don't undo with you.
You know Judas who betrayed Jesus turns around he gets betrayed himself at a lesser level, but he gets betrayed himself because they don't want the money back. He's on try to undo when it done. I made a mistake or only give you money back like no we know anything to do with you. We've got everything we want from you. So he in turn is betrayed as well and that's one reason why say that people who betray sometimes betray again. Sometimes they get betrayed himself and it really never ends until the betrayer has to repent rats when it ends until then anything could happen again. Keep spinning away and then you're left with the debris right exactly and they deal with the core that's causing them to betray people. People who have been betrayed or people who have a all things at all costs mentality sometimes feel the end justified the means.
It was okay to betray the person I work for as long as that ultimately help me launch my own business. I've heard that excuse. No, it does not justify at the core. What were talking about his character and if the characters flawed is going to continue to be flawed.
You mentioned a 20 year journey again. It seems like a long time.
Some people say and I can sign up for that. It's too much work and yet you get to a place where you were healed.
Amendment were always continuing to heal, but how did you know yet why did you know you are not air. I found hope you know that day I found I remember it as though it was yesterday.
It was probably one of the top five days of my life because when I was betrayed one of the things that really hurt. Deep was I felt the vision and the calling in the ministry that God is given us had been greatly impacted and it had it set us back financially in practical ways and the things that he was doing in the ministry in a positive way and I felt like there's no hope for me and so I was in town one day and I was speaking at this church and was one of those days that I was going to drive back that night, so I checked out the hotel early and I got like three or four hours that I really don't have anything to do and no matter go hang out at the bookstore with the other thing I like to do and I don't really collect antiques, but I like the romantic stores and so I went over and I so this will need antique store in a slot going to walk around to see you want them to have privacy because it's a lot of people in there that come talk to you and so I'm in there just walking around and for there's reasons I guess I've always been fascinated with old pottery and so I I so they had some pottery and I walked over and to those who are serious pottery collectors. You know what Roseville and whole pottery and those kind of things are and they had some unique pieces of Roseville pottery. So I walked over and I was just fascinated with that and I began to look and they had a lot of pottery that was foreign pottery doubt pottery has to be perfect to have value if it has one ship, one flaw the price drops dramatically almost to the point of no value.
So if you have a piece of Roseville pottery and it's got a chip in it. It's going be worth 1/10 of what perfect pottery is and that's important to remember because as I'm standing there. They have all this wonderful Japanese pottery and boy the prices I my old while you know and then they had this one piece of pottery that was obviously broken obviously repaired and the price was twice the price of the other pottery and I was like why don't know why that is. So I call the lady over and I said why is this piece of pottery that obviously is broken and repaired dummy to this belong to like some famous person and she said oh no sir you don't understand in every culture in the 17 in the 1800s American culture.
Wherever when a piece of pottery was broken they would pick up the pieces and he threw it out but not the Japanese to Japanese would pick up the pieces of that pottery and they would put it back together but they discovered the only way they could get it to hold was to make an epoxy with cold and it and so what you are seeing sir is a repaired broken piece of pottery that has been interrelated with gold and the peace that has been put back together with the gold epoxy is worth far more than the peace that was never broken and she walked away and you know as Christians. What I mean man the Lord had a good time because the Lord spoke to me and said you thought it was shattered, you thought it was broken. You thought it was worthless. You saw no hope you picked up the pieces and you try to put it back together.
But if you will try to put it back together the way I want you to. That's when I realize I really do have to forgive. I do have to trust again. I do have to take down the walls that were keeping people out emotionally and ends spiritually in every other way and let those people back in your life you will trust me and do it my way, there will always be the cracks.
They'll always be visible but I want you to know you will see a worth in a value even before you walk through the betrayal and the hope for me that day was understanding that when you have been betrayed when your marriage is shattered when your business is shattered when a relationship is shattered and you feel like you're just standing there holding pieces and there's no value at all. The good news is, it takes time. You don't put a piece of pottery back together in a day. It takes time but if you will do it God's way and allow him to the precious purity of his love and his wisdom took piece by piece, put it back in your life you will be absolutely amazed how in the end God can create something more beautiful, more valuable, more worthwhile, more whatever you want than even before the brokenness occur. Do you have today. Our relationship with the one who was your betrayer. I do not, I have reached out on occasion, but he has made the choice not to have a right not just with me but with everyone in that stage of his life. If if he texted you today and said can we get together. I would talk to that in fairness, I would probably have 1/3 party. There I think that would be healthy for several reasons, but you sure I would sit on and talk to you would like to think there could be a day when the wounds are healed and you could be restored to some level of relationship of friendship.
Yes, and I think you've already said this it it's not the idea that could be restored to the place where it was. Sometimes there's enough damage done that you can't restored to the place where it once was but we should always be pursuing him and thinking of second Corinthians 5 where it says we been entrusted with the ministry of reconciliation reconciled relationships. That's the story of the Bible is not right and so we ought to be pursuers of reconciled relationships doing that wisely prudently appropriately but that ought to be our heart motivation. In some ways you could say every Christ follower is a minister of reconciliation that's in that same passage, Paul says we are called to that ministry and you feel even as your telnet beautiful so as soon as they can. Men love to be laying in bed at night, and hear the stories said almost every night as you put your kids to bed. It's so beautiful to see the picture of forgiveness and restoration. The here's what hit me is when I forgave my dad and I even when I say that it's like when God enabled me because I couldn't I just it was too deep, and when I went to that journey years long journey and for gave him I didn't even understand at that moment. How my freedom and my relationship with my dad again it and become this perfect relation with my dad in his final years of life.
It was much better but I didn't understand this when I allow God to set me free.
I was sitting my sons free. I had no idea that this was now going to be part of my legacy if I didn't go on a journey I would have a totally different legacy cousin to bring that into my family and that sort of stain and bitterness is going to be passed down and yet because their dad was free and that's and are perfect, but it was like they didn't even experience it.
I think they even knew it.
You know they never felt the venom from their dad toward their grandpa. That was a large part of my life. It was a legacy changer so I'm guessing your forgiveness, your freedom not only affected units affected your wife in your legacy right so inspiring. I think of Romans 828 God uses all things together for good. I look at your book.
I think he probably wouldn't have written this book had not gone through this experience that Japanese pottery we actually did a women's retreat because that would like to email it because it's such a beautiful picture. I think it's called consume GX way. I would say I was going as O'Malley but I lightly said yeah the same time can city pottery and I think that's true of all of us were all broken guy can take those pieces and put them back together anything more beautiful after he's restored us one of the things I discovered about forgiveness. I always thought forgiveness was like a point in time where I say I forgive and for me, I discovered forgiveness for a long time was a daily choice, forgiveness is not a feeling it is an action. It is a choice and for me I had to get up every morning and say Lord today I choose to forgive my betrayer. I didn't try to worry about next week. I didn't worry about next month. Today I choose to forgive and what I discovered in light of what you said was I did not realize my oldest daughter at the time was old enough to be aware of what was going on. My youngest daughter was not. She was very young at the time, but I didn't realize. And now my daughter who has two children for on the news. In early 20s to hear her perspective of what her daddy went through because you know for her.
I think it was trying to decide is what my daddy preaches true or is it just something he said because it's his job and I think she realizes now and she's verbalized that dad when I saw you really were sincere when she went through because she knew a lot more and she knows a lot more now of the depth of it, and in many ways I I've never even there's a whole chapter that that I haven't even told that I never want to tell his son about trying to get even there or it's just about being transparent in your kids your kids see your heart you know him and they also see your honesty as you go home, I think so many of us in ministry particular, we try to be in no super spiritual their kids all time.
Sometimes you just need to tell your kids.
I like that I'm upset about that. This is not about performing this is about a relationship in relationships have to be very honest but you know to come out on the other side of the story of the the pottery that there's hope and there's value in there's joy because you know as you said. Romans 828 God uses everything that happens to us, it doesn't mean everything is great.
Some things are painful. You know from football.
It's not fun when you're out there lifting weights in your exercising to get ready, but it is a necessary part of the process or as I like to often. When I use kids. I remember going to this center for butterflies. One time, and they had the cocoons you know where the that Libra have been and one of butterflies is breaking out the silver wanted to help and said no you can't help do that because if you do, they will not have strengthened their wings to fly.
So what you think is helping is really hurting and I think sometimes we look at our lives. We need to be reminded things.
We think God is doing that's hurting us is really helping us to be strong and you know in ministry when you've been through something that is painful. You're able to help and speak to the hearts of others because for me. You know the person who really spoke to me in Scripture was chosen because if you think about it. Here is a guy in the Old Testament who has been betrayed and betrayed him and his brothers betrayed him, you know. And then he's betrayed by Potter first wife who's accusing him of something and do she betrayed him. Then he gets in prison and a guy promises more soon as I get out here. You're going to be remembered. The first thing the guy did was forget and he's betrayed any for trading betrayed. But you know he's one of the few people in the Old Testament you never read anything negative about a and yet God took all of those experiences and put him in a position of authority to where he could bless other people.
All of his betrayals and his forgiveness can we know we forget, because the way he reacted with his brothers when they came during the famine, and that spoke to me that all of these things that are happening. God has a greater purpose and a greater mission, and how did I know then that God would give our ministry opportunity through women of joy and good are men in our celebrator's witches were senior adults. I had no idea that God was going to take that pain and use it to bless them and encourage them and give them hope and our hope is that people who are in the midst of the pain can find the freedom that God promises if you walk this path faithfully if you press into these issues and get the forgiveness there's freedom. On the other side of that if you hang onto you hold onto resentment and bitterness, personal freedom, there you will be in bondage and our hope is that our blisters can can follow the path that you've outlined for us here Phil, thank you for writing the book. Thank you for, ensuring the story and for helping all of us on this. Thank you for having me. As always, my joy whenever I can just maybe help someone who's in the midst of their pain to realize it may be hurting now. They may be hurting tomorrow, but with time.
There's hope in the sun will shine again on in and we want to help make that happen. In fact were making your book available this week to any of our blisters would like to get a copy if you can help with the donation to support the ministry of family life to day will send you a copy of Phil's book beyond betrayal overcome past hurts and begin to trust.
Maybe you're not in this place yourself, but you know somebody who is been through betrayal.
A copy of Phil's book and use it to help them know how to respond again. The book is our thank you gift when you support the ongoing work of family life to day. This ministry exists because listeners like you make it possible.
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The production and syndication of this program is made possible because listeners like you believe in what were doing and donate to make it happen. So again if you can help with the donation would love to send you Phil Waltrip's book beyond betrayal as our way of saying thank you for partnering with us go to family life to day.com to donate online or call one 800 FL today to make a donation over the phone. We look forward to hearing from you and thanks in advance for whatever you're able to do in support of this ministry and tomorrow we want to talk about the importance of cultivating transparency and authenticity on marriage being open and honest with one another so that betrayal doesn't happen. Ryan and Selena Frederick join us tomorrow to talk about that. We hope you can be with us. I don't think our engineer today. Keith Lynch along with our entire broadcast production team on behalf of our hosts Dave and Ann Wilson on Bob Lapine will see you back next time for another edition of family life today. Family life to day is a production of family life of Little Rock, Arkansas.
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