When Pastors Fall, What Does a Good Disciplinary Process Look Like? Pastor Adriel Looks at The Village Church and Matt Chandler Story

When pastors fold what is a good disciplinary process look like this is one of the questions will be answering on today's addition of core Christianity will hi this is Bill Meyer along with Pastor Israel Sanchez and this is the radio program where we answer your questions about the Bible and the Christian life every day. You can call us right now with your question. At 833 book core that's 1-833-843-2673. You can also post your question on one of our social media sites. Of course you can always email us at questions at core, Christianity.com burst up today. Here's a YouTube question from one of our listeners been Josh uses biblically speaking, how do you think the Matt Schadler situation has been handled by both him and his church. And if you're not familiar with what you're talking about the Matt Chandler story.

Here's a brief synopsis from the New York Times, the pastor of a prominent evangelical mega-church near Dallas abruptly announced an indefinite leave of absence on Sunday. Effective immediately because of an online relationship he had with a woman who is not his wife, Matt Chandler, the lead pastor of the village church told his congregation in a tearful admission that took place on stage during the worship service that the relationship was not romantic or sexual but unguarded and unwise and included quote coarse and foolish joking that's on befitting of someone in my position.

Now there are a number of other details involved in this but the pastor Chandler is in a disciplinary process with the elders of his shirt. His church right now so back to Josh's opening question Israel. How do you think this whole thing was handled. Yeah, well, you know, we believe in getting these questions about the situation. Specifically, and a damning bill.

I just weighs heavily on my heart. I think it's really easy for us as Christians and even pastors, Christian leaders to the desert of rubber neck at a church that is going through something really difficult and to the point, a fair sale, they should have done this for they they should've done that. Sometimes I think people can even revel in it, and I've seen. I've seen the is it strange and it's heartbreaking. But even you know Christians who who sort of celebrate.

You know when when these kind of things happen you think other people going to something difficult sometimes to make us feel better about ourselves and so we have to be on guard against all of that. This should they should break our hearts. These kinds of things can be used by the evil one and so often are used by the evil one we know is as a way to get non-Christians to to look at your deceit. You guys you know you don't have your act together.

Of course you know you're just a bunch of hypocrites and so on and so forth and so I think I think first and foremost we just we need to pray for the light of the Lord Jesus Christ to shine on the situation that that the that church specifically would have wisdom in dealing with this and in caring for all of the parties involved including you know there was a woman who had confronted this pastor about some of these communications and so you know, praying for for for them and just praying for for the Lord God to be glorified in and through this and so Bill first let's let's just pray for this church. The village church and asked for God's mercy, to be with them. Lord we we look to you Jesus as the King of heaven and earth, and the head of your church and we pray for for this particular church Lord it's going to do difficulty right now Lord through with a season of difficulty right now because of this information that's come out. We pray for the leadership of that church that you would fill them with your Holy Spirit and give them wisdom in in caring for those who were involved in caring for the that though the woman who was communicating with this pastor, the friend of the woman who who brought this to light in caring for the pastor and his family, Lord, that you would just give give wisdom to the elders there to the church in really working through this and in a manner that would honor you, glorify you and bring the healing Lord that is needed and that at the end of the day. Lord, that this would be something that you use to use all things Lord for for your glory and for good in in the world and in that church and so we we ask for your mercy. Lord, in Jesus name, amen.

So that you know in terms of the specific question that we got on YouTube. We know interment in what what how do we think that this is being handled by the church it positively. It seemed like and again were just going off of what what they've shared and what this pastor shared publicly always seem like there was a confrontation about some of his communications and that he went. According to him immediately and spoke to the people that he's accountable to within the church. Another pastor and elder and that there was essentially an investigation that came out of that or it has been going on, and so I think that that's that's a positive thing right and we as pastors are also accountable and need to be accountable. So is not just like you know somebody accuses you something in and you just get to shut it down and brush it under the rug know there needs to be accountability to a text of Scripture that my mind goes to is in in first Timothy chapter 5 or 17 let the elders who rule well be considered worthy of double honor, especially those who labor in preaching and teaching.

For the Scripture says you shall not muzzle an ox when it treads out the grain and the laborer deserves his wages. Do not admit a charge against an elder, except on the evidence of two or three witnesses. As for those who persistence and rebuke them in the presence of all, so that the rest may stand in fear, and they are unfixed up like this should cause us to tremble and to think you know how Mike how my especially for those in leadership and in ministry position to help out is the way that I'm communicating, reflecting that the truth of God's word and caring for the people around me or contradicting you know what what I what I claim to believe and how I claim to live as it is there's there's I think a sobering warning here for all of us but I'm grateful that it does seem like this was not just me.

Obviously there there making this this very public announcement. The way in which they made the announcement 13 of the questions that the best way to get this week wait. We want to be cautious in as those on the outside it's really easy is sin is sin is messy. We like to think is needed. There should be an easy answer, but what were dealing with relationships and sin and then those considered as it it's never as cookie-cutter as we like it to be inside the people to sell certain things about the way in which the announcement was made.

It did seem like there was some vagueness in the language and so that that cause a lot of people that was there more to this story then then were being told. Thanks.

You understand that I mean III understand that concern and that question the way in which it was spoken about, you know, like it or there's a familiarity and a frequency to the communications it caused the elders of the church to be concerned with what the pastor was doing in on this familiar and infrequent commerce, or that I think those just those words in a custom people.

They was is it not okay to have friendships with the opposite sex in and what what is that supposed to look like and so there were a lot of questions there and that's what I think some people to think will is there more to this debt that were just not being told that so there there are just so many factors here rated. I think there's there's the desire of probably the church to guard that the individuals who are who are involved. Probably both.

But the woman who brought them and it should be on the woman who brought forward this this this concern as well as the woman who is in in communication and the needs to be caring for her ministering to her, but also you think of the family of the pastor. I did think that this is just me me speaking.

I did think that you know situations like this. Probably not best to have the pastor control the narrative and get up and get to speak and say everything special. There's questions about qualification or whether they should be doing what they're doing, at least at that time would've been much better. I think to have one of the elders get up and and address this and so so yeah but but again you were looking at from the outside. We need we need to pray pray ultimately that that justice is done that Christ is glorified that the truth is is the truth is made to prevail and that for for everyone involved. You know that that the Lord ministers to them and we want we want the best for gospel preaching churches. We should want the best for the village church and so so be praying for them and that the Lord would that the Lord would bring the truth out and and that the Lord be glorified in in the lives of everyone involved in so really just heavy stuff and ways on my heart I know it does on on the hearts of so many. As well, and there's a lot of concern so I think it's as more time goes by and and maybe there's more information that comes out will will get some more clarity. Thanks for that. Israel appreciate your your insights on that issue.

This is core Christianity with pastor Adria Sanchez.

If you have a question about the Bible or the Christian life. Our phone lines are open right now will be taking calls for the next 15 minutes or so, here's the number is 833, the court, that's 1-833-843-2673 let's go to Dana who is calling in from Emporia, Kansas.

They know what your question for pastor.

Israel wondering online pornography is considered cheating would would pornography be considered cheating on your spouse will mean think about what Jesus says in the sermon on the Mount. You know, he says if if you look at a person to lust after them. It's as if you've already committed adultery in your heart and so I don't want to minimize just that. The law of God in any respect.

And certainly pornography and and its use in the church is a terrible you know it is this this pandemic give you a it's it's it's it's spread out and and it's something that so many people struggle with with addiction even and so and so the series and in its deadly. Let's just be honest, it's all sin is deadly.

It's something that needs to be dealt with very seriously. But I wouldn't say that like me to forever thinking about grounds for divorce. For example, when Jesus talks about adultery being being a grounds for divorce.

I don't think that if you know your spouse looks at someone lustfully on the street, that and that sin they need to confess that, but I don't think that that right there is grounds for divorce, so we have to. I think exercise wisdom here when were answering the. The pornography question. Certainly if there is you know a sexual relationship outside of the marriage, is that that that is according to Jesus grounds for divorce but but again with regard to pornography or even just looking at it at a woman to lust after her man to lust after him. Would that be ground for divorce.

I think that that I think one I would just say no, but that the requires more wisdom and I would say that something that you need to speak with counselors your church about me. Hopefully there are people on the ground there who are able to encourage and minister to you and to to your family.

I think it it if there is a serious issue of addiction that has not been dealt with within the church needs to step in and you need to get that the help from the body of Christ.

Also we were talking about this on the broadcast yesterday in terms of mean of good counselors even a therapist who deals with sexual addiction. It get very well could turn into a situation of church discipline, but I think those are the things that need to that's asserted that the that the pathway that needs to be taken as the context of the church and and good counselors, not just a jumping to the conclusion of what the you know my husband struggles with this.

Therefore, I think I'm justified in divorcing them in us, and that's what you're saying but I know that that's what some people have done and so appreciate your your question again.

I merely talking about that with the first with the first YouTube question just that sin brothers and sisters is. It is messy in terms of the relationships and how we engage with each other and the implications of our actions and this is this is why there are so many sobering warnings throughout the Bible in terms of our conduct in how we treat each other because you knew you start going down this this path and you realize it's not just I'm not just hurting myself and hurting the people around me.

The people that I love the most.

And so God have mercy upon us on all of us and and protect us and grant us repentance where we need repentance so well said.

And again it speaks to the importance of being plugged into a church where you are accountable to other people where you have brothers and sisters in Christ.

A good pastoral leadership that you can go to with issues like this and unfortunately I think there's a lot of people in our culture right now and really think you probably agree were somewhat isolated and not plugged into a church or just goes sporadically and they don't have that those relationships and that is so key and in helping situations like this. Yeah. I mean it breaks my heart II I'm just I'm so grateful to be able to do this broadcast as a pastor as a minister of the gospel. One of things I've I've seen going to UC as well as units people: many people with with deep struggles that they're going through difficult struggles that they're going through that don't have community that don't have a church family that's able to do or wrap its arms around them. Pastors on that they can go to to provide accountability or pastoral care and so that so it's something that we continually encourage those who listen to this broadcast to make sure that you have so important we we weren't meant to live the Christian life and isolation and to walk on on the path of life by yourself is this is this is a group family hike in a world were in this together. On the way to the celestial city in your part of the body of Christ. And so you need to be a member of the church and if you're not it there.

There are some serious issues in here it's it's really your handicapping yourself significantly in the Christian life is not what God intends for you and so glad you brought that up again Bill so well said thanks and drill here listening to core Christianity with pastor Israel Sanchez, just a note were going to be recording a second episode of core Christianity today after our live program ends. So if you still have a question for a drill about the Bible or the Christian life may be about doctrine or theology or maybe even some doubts about the Christian faith. We are open to your call and you can call this for the next 40 minutes or so, here's the number is 833 the core that's 833-843-2673 also want to mention a great new book that were offering today which actually is something that parents can use to answer up some difficult questions from their kids. Yeah the book is called. Why does God let bad things happen.

And of course that's a question such as their kids at that question. Of the many adults and we have that question. Those are the questions that people ask were really wrestling with faith of God is good, why does he let bad things happen and when you look around that the world and you just think boy there.

There are some really difficult.

You know terrible things that happen and so were trying to make sense of that and we want to help you and we think this is a good resource for you and it is written for younger audiences, such as a great opportunity for you to go to this maybe with your children or grandchildren. It's called why does God let bad things happen again. It's written by Chris morph you and you can get a copy over core, Christianity.com for donation of any amount. It's a really fantastic resource to get a copy of this book is that Israel said go to core Christianity.com/offers look for. Why does God let bad things happen. We do have a several social media sites here at core Christianity.

One of them is our Instagram page and here's a question that came in from one of our listeners is a man totally depraved and if so, why has God told him to repent and believe.

If that's not possible.

Yeah, well, none of us can save ourselves. Salvation is not like he should pull yourself up by the bootstraps. Here's what you need to do now figure it out. Kind of the thing those calls to repent and to believe, will repentance and faith through faith. This is the empty hand that receives the grace of Christ is not oh is not a work like we think about works.

You know like doing charitable deeds and and whatnot. It's it's a sinner receiving the mercy of Christ and even that no having the eyes to see is a gift that the Lord gives you think of Lydia in the book of acts Lord opening her heart to receive the things that were spoken of by the apostles and so and so yes I would say humanity, we are totally depraved. Now what does that mean it doesn't mean that were mere that everybody is just as bad as they could be that were just wretches.

In that sense, know it means that every single part of us has been affected by sin. And don't we feel it in our bodies, unit sickness, pain, our minds, our thoughts are wills.

There isn't one part of us that has not been affected by sin it it's pervasive it's it's gone into every part of us and in so we can't again save ourselves and that's that's essentially what were saying we talk about people being totally depraved that we can do anything meriting God's salvation God's grace we can prepare ourselves for it totally is a work of the Holy Spirit renewing our hearts are wills our minds to see and to believe, and at the end of the day. What's I think what's helpful about this is it it it it makes is that we realize look I can boast in my salvation can say well the reason I'm saved and you're not is because I'm just, you know more holy than you are. And II get things a little bit better and it was through you know that the fact that I have deeper spiritual understanding. No, there is no room for boasting at all.

Actually, because we realize Lord, there was nothing in me that merited your grace.

In fact, for so many years.

I was shaking my fist at you in rebellion and yet you demonstrated your love for us in that while we were still sinners father you sent Jesus to die for us you drew us to yourself, by the grace of the Holy Spirit, and so you you get all the glory for rescuing me for saving me.

Thank you God for your kindness, your love, your forgiveness. I didn't deserve it. I don't deserve it.

Still, you get all the glory. That's that's we want to give God all the glory and so when we find in us, you know, will the reason I'm saved is because you know I just had it. You know, in my power and will in all these things work were giving ourselves room for boasting and in the Bible so that you have any and so appreciate that. That question a love bill. The people are connecting via our other social media. You know channels or whatever you want calling on Instagram and whatnot subject that if you don't follow us on Instagram check out my friends. I hear he's laughing at me because I called it a Instagram channel or what I should know these things by now. No problem. We also by the way have a Facebook page.

That's called Facebook Israel FB I was wondering about MK data. David has a question for us from Facebook. He says what did Jesus mean when he said, my kingdom is not of this world who yeah I mean this is an important one. I think especially you notice as we think about politics and in elections and people getting all all sorts of discussions and debates about the kingdom of God will the kingdom of God. Proper is what we were talking about the new creation in the heavenly Jerusalem. That is one day going to come down to earth and heaven eyes. The whole world. The new cretins were looking forward to an end. So when Jesus is, my kingdom is not of this world. I think in party sale it it's not it's not built up from below.

It comes down from above. It's not the way in which you think about earthly kingdoms in other than the that the many people when Jesus was on earth you know they wanted him to take go toe to toe with the Romans and drive them out and make you know Israel great again and and reestablish the Temple in the worship and drive out that the the pagans and the prostitutes in the tax collectors, but instead is recognizing with them is talking with them there, having meals together and he's extending to them the forgiveness of sins while the sons of the kingdom, quote unquote, you know that the scribes and the Pharisees on their cast out because they're unbelieving, and so there is something very mysterious in the New Testament about the kingdom of God is not. It's not that is just the sort of weird otherworldly thing per se. It is otherworldly but but it doesn't come in the same way that we think kingdoms come or advance it advances through the preaching of the gospel, not not to a physical sword and coercion. You know, coursing people by conquering them and you know making them Christians that we know it.

It happens by the work of the Holy Spirit with the sword of the Spirit the word of God, the gospel of salvation that is being proclaimed to the whole world. And so in that sense it's it's distinct from the kingdoms of this world and that's that's precise when Jesus makes that statement in John chapter 18 verse 36 immunity context is Jesus saying to pilot my kingdom is not like like your kingdom it's it's it's it's not of this world. It's the new creation and brothers and sisters that were part of the taste of that. Now in the body of Christ through the salvation that Jesus is one for us in the filling of the Holy Spirit. Thanks for listening to core Christianity request your copy of today's special offer. Visit us at core, Christianity.com and click on offers in the menu or call us at 1-833-843-2673. That's 833 when you contact us.

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