Vision Week Radio Special - Part C

Connect with studio this week. This script will observe the apostle Paul, like politics today. Talk about church twins. The encouragement concerning landscape to talk about 9000. Please forward Exposition. That's really what I do and I think that's what pastors are pastors like a lot of them think they are not even find exposition is negative, rattling up that is not so. I think they should learn that I think is now let students Skip Heitzigs against for conversation with Chip Lesko on vision was the clerk's desk. Some spiritual insight about Lennon and McCartney. Let's roll.

I recall never forget skipping amount about shooting with our crew and the sun was shining right on the golden dome of the Temple Mount. You saying behind this is the most contested piece of real estate in the world and that's still true today. It is true. So yeah 35 acres call the Temple Mount on Mount Zion, which is now the place where the golden dome of the rock as before that a temple stood there and I mean it has been contested.

You just look at it through history since the temple, then the Romans destroyed the temple. Fast-forward to the Crusades coming in and began taking over what was the Islamic mosque at the time and putting the Knights Templar there and then that getting destroyed again by the Muslims and just generation after generation of fighting and yet the Bible says on that place in the future will be a temple, a Jewish temple once again and I were you were white. But of course waiting for that to happen, but it's it's Jerusalem is a fun place to visit and some you can feel the tension you can cut with a knife what you block on the Temple Mount, dozens and dozens and dozens of times measure everybody in the audience would realize that it's not controlled by Jews but by Israel and succeeded back in the days of Moshe Dayan to the Jordan Jordanians is right and you would we go up there. They say you can't take a Bible out you can't be seen praying for and I'd like you, your observation on this.

I did just saw the news recently that there considering allowing the Jews to pray openly on the Temple Mount. Things are changing, that would be a monumental right so the first time I went there was in 1978.

Israel was no 30 years old is a nation whose their 30th anniversary and I remember going up to the temple mount with the Bible not knowing any of these rules.

I was with a friend, Jerry Miller, we're up there.

We opened our Bible started praying and people ran at us and says close the Bible and I remember my friends and close the Bible you can read the Bible. Here, read the Bible here. This is the place where Abraham came can't read what can we pray you can print what is in this holy place like a prayer they wanted control and they still do.

Up to this point radically religiously any other prayer to anybody but Allah. So yeah it's it's now under their domain. So though Israel took over the city of Jerusalem. Again, 1967 I think they very graciously let others have that area because they were respectful of the Muslim religion they could've taken back. I recall our guide saying that you can be deported for being seen reading a Bible.

Now, in the temple mount. It's still a powder keg and the diffuser slick. I think you probably agree that you're going back next year let's talk about your tour people are signing up right now the medical ward invitation to listeners throughout the company. You now is the perfect time to go, could never be a better time than right now Israel is opening up as out after COBIT. One of the safest, most advanced countries on the planet. The first time I went Israel, my mother thought I was crazy was 1978 there were bombs going off across the northern border the Lebanese border. I heard gunfire. When I lived on a kibbutz of the time every night. I heard machine-gun fire. I heard rockets and and being a young single Course.

I thought this is really exciting.

I really like this, but I've been back to Israel.

This is going to be my think. 42nd trip to the land by doing tours and and every time we go somebody is always concerned about that. But once you get there. Those fears are banished like that day and is very safe and there always on alert and look at they survived in a very messy neighborhood and are thriving and it's a beautiful experience and of the topography is the same as you would counter during biblical times. You will never read your Bible, the same way again. If you take it toward Israel see it forever in your minds eye. When you read the tax old and New Testament. There's nothing like Caesarea. All the places you going to suggest it's an amazing experience. I would say to her audience.

If not, I hope some will accompany you and let you as you you go next or next spring. Well we it's a life changing experience guaranteed that an output. This is a guarantee you'll go and you want to go again and again and again, it will become your new home. You'll feel like you have spiritual roots there because you do and you should go to see it. You know you everybody's going to be able to see it in the kingdom age, but it's nice to have something to compare it to. When you see it in the kingdom age and you can remember what it will look like when we were on tour here and it's vastly different now but it's good to get sort of a reference point biblically as you can look where Abraham and Isaac, and Jacob came and Joseph was buried in. You can see, you know, the Bethlehem and Jerusalem and the sea of galaxy galleys largely untouched is very rural and you will get the feel of what it was like being there with Jesus and his disciples.

It's uncanny. You see, the Jesus book you will see that Jesus is about.

We did a video on is correct so many vacations are overhyped on the web you use different cameras and you get the man look like this is what is a letter that one of those things that supersedes anything and you can sell it if it's better that's right no matter what video you see you can't duplicate being there feeling it smelling it walking on it. It's great let's bring things back home skipping out like I'd like your perspective of politics is always a lightning rod in the church is nothing new today. It was true in the moral majority days of the late 70s and whatnot. Are you concerned about the divisiveness we see in the church today over politics that I think it's distressing. Everything is become political and it it in the church there's always there's always is ongoing debate and it's okay to debate politically and have your different stance, but were going to lose a chunk of our audience. If we ride that hobbyhorse and and it it's usually do a disservice to the gospel. If you just take a political stand and make it all about one party or another party. Listen, God is not a Republican is not a Democrat, is not an independent God is God and in people come to church to have that perspective, not a political perspective, anger, politics anywhere and they do so once you get political. People aren't going to hear anything else they're not there. If they're not of your persuasion of your party and you make that statement as a pastor you can turn that chunk of audience off Interlaken to get them back as I can hear you when you speak about something that is eternal so at the same time ship. There's nothing wrong with addressing the moral issue because politics deals in in moral issues and it's okay to make a biblical stand on a moral issue and say this is what the Bible says about transgender is more about homosexuality or about this or that and and give people help them think biblically and clearly about these issues is can help them be better at politics and voting, but but to get political and and by for a party is unmistakably, here's a question I'm very anxious to ask you skipping the answers extra biblically.

If it's your your prospective member being on the Appian way with you on the road to Rome shoot and talking about the apostle Paul's philosophy of the of the world how how do you think he viewed the intrigue of the Caesars.

How closely did he follow or even care about the politics of his day. Well, yeah, that's a great question because he was involved in the politics of his day.

He was caught in the crossfire of the politics of his day. The politics of his day took his head off his shoulders and he was in the court tied up with things but he always elevated the opportunity. So whether he was in the courtroom at Caesarea or the quote courtroom in Rome. Note he he shared truth T-shirt gospel. He shared with the leader about the resurrection and when one of the Roman leaders said you what you try to persuade me to be a Christian because that's my hope. I don't want just you but all those listening would be just like I am, except without these chains, so he had a single passion hit a single target with every human being. How can how can I influences person to get them to happen to think internally and get them beyond just the politics of this this region in the seas were corrupt beyond. They make our guys look like rookies.

That's true. I why twitter feed beef note dated they listing the political talk radio back in Rome or or how I think you be intrigued but not obsessed.

I think that's a good way to put I think you would be intrigued and he probably would.

Well, when he was imprisoned in Rome. He had several people from Caesar's household. The political arena work for Caesar of the echelon. The upper echelon guard come to his Bible studies come to faith in Christ.

Those of Caesar's household greet you. So he made an impact eternally in these like what I love is he didn't try to persuade them to know what you should leave Caesar's household now, nor did Jesus tell Roman soldiers to quit being soldiers nor John the Baptist Telemedia said, be content with your wages, but they found themselves in these political arenas situations, but not becoming politically motivated or polarized in one direction or another state. Above it stayed free from what other trends today and in the contemporary church in the Christian movement Skip a bow, think, encourage and concern you. Well, I am encouraged because I see what what what we saw at Calvary Chapel in the 60s and 70s become sort of the international norm now.

Back then churches were pretty stymied.

I think they were very regulated and there were very formal but Calvary Chapel is a little more relaxed and it was an encounter focused on authenticity and music and worship that sort of become the evangelical norm. Those are good trends I think you you don't have to always wear a tie. You don't have to always sing a hymn, you can have new modes of worship and rush contemporary things. I'm always concerned I guess my biggest concern is is the pulpit because I'm a puppeteer I'm a pastor and I am concerned with how the Bible is not taught and how yet Jesus talked about Christianity there's a church, but you know it just don't go deep and and I think people the average Christian is biblically illiterate. They don't know their way around the Bible they don't, they wouldn't be able to have conversation about deep things that really people have in the world to keep them from Christianity. I get people all the time's a Mac · are you known dealing with this and then hit their arguing with me about that.

I believe anymore and and they are. I'm amazed how ill-equipped they are to answer their son or daughter and and so I will give them answers for their loved ones or the conversations are having but I encouraged them I said here some resources you need is you need to be the one telling them showing them so I think it all goes back to the pulpit. You know, a few years ago, an assistant pastor was driving me to the airport. I was taken a flight to Canada and he said I have a question for you. Can you name five pastors under the age of 40 who are expository teachers, and I was stumped. I started naming a few that I knew that I at work associated with sent out the beyond that I couldn't name them and and and I said why do you ask this because my class asked me that the class at the school ministry here. One of the girls posted on her Facebook's outlook were done with the with the dazzle we want depth were done with the pizzazz were done with were done she said with glam rock Christianity.

We want we want young guys who were going teach us truth deeply and so she asked the class. She asked the teacher.

This guy name five evangelical pastors under the age of 44 expositors. He said I couldn't do it and so he asked me and I thought to write that book that is on my workout depth not dazzle and and they cuddle at and the idea of a plea for depth biblical truth and an exposition that's really what I do and I think that's what pastors should do think all pastors should be expositors I think a lot of them think they are but they're not good.

They couldn't even define exposition. They just think it's sort of rattling off ideas in the text that is not biblical exposition and so I think they shouldn't learn that and I think they should do that. So to be clear your your your saying there's still a drought in the land for the word of God and the obstruction lies in the pulpit more so than ever before that. That's salient league put it's the fault lies at the feet of preachers and you know it's it's sort of become about soundbites again what tweets well. What's great in Instagram you get a little message a snippet and exhortation and and and it's like these pastors. A lot of these young pastors think that what they have to say is really important and it's not, you can never say better than what God is Artie set so you have to come up with anything you want to invent anything.

You have to actually find out the principle that is there and say that teach them that, but it's almost like the onus is on them to manufacture were not manufacturers. He's called us to be distributors. He's got the goods distributed teach tell it. I've watched you follow the biblical model Skip of of sending out those two Jerusalem, Samaria. The uttermost parts of the earth. Let's talk about some of the your church planter you've created church planters and we we know the succession you for using yeah I love the fact that we've had in many people on our staff youth leaders is get a fire in their belly and they have they want to go out and do something and and they go plant churches and very successful churches very churches that will last for generations.

I hope to be gratifying to you very gratified.

It's like spiritual grandkids. You know you have spiritual children but then they go out and they create something and so you have a part in that unit you know some of the DNA is not like that if they did the replicating me or this because they draw from a number of sources and inspirations and make their own. That's beautiful but yet it did have some part in that. It's like it's awesome.

You introduced me many years ago Skip the principal from a book called the problem with wineskins taken from the Scripture obviously about Jesus and how would you avoid it back to a trap when you're when you're a leader and you listen weekend and week out to people who either leave your church or are coming to your church or they have new ideas. All those things make an impact. So you are able to constantly daily here that and filter and then come downstairs okay so what's what's important, what's not important. What is reaching people what is not reaching people know that the danger is you start accommodating to the felt needs of people or the stated felt needs of people because if you would've asked me at 18. What is my need. I would've told you something that wasn't the truth. What I needed was the gospel and so if each church would've tailored its ministry around what Skip said his need was it would've not not aimed in the right direction.

God already knows what you need is so one of the ways that helps me as I go to younger people in the ministry and ask them their advice with they see their eyes are different than my eyes like I have a history and so II and I'm used to seeing things a certain way and hearing things a certain way and expecting things to be a certain way, but when I get to talk to my son who's nose, your son, and of those have done ministry and are really monitoring what is what the Lord's doing worldwide and I get some ideas from them.

I love to imply love new ideas and I love trying new things and I love working and letting go's remained after a while. If that doesn't work draw why we try to for 10 years analysis, I'm different. I don't mind doing that an idol and it didn't have to be my idea, I just want to be able to use somebody else's idea and implement.

I appreciate so much Skip you your adherent to it's not that the mileage is the maintenance of your spiritual philosophy and you've maintained. Let's be honest about the pain of being a pastor it's not all roses are you open yourself up to people and you know I member interviewing Chuck Smith when time skipping was the most difficult thing about your ministry. Should those who were close to me turned on me what I was, that was heartfelt yeah it was heartfelt and every leader knows that reality every every leader knows what David said those that I walked into the house of God with them. We were associates in the temple, and they've turned the heel against me. Yeah it's very distant. Betrayal is hard. Jesus knew that was like right he Peter denied him.

Judas betrayed him.

They all walked out on them so we have to realize that's gonna be our lot at some point and in and you know were called into the Army were called into the of the battlefield of ministry. Nothing you want to become an embattled pastor always pick a fight with people but just realize that is going to happen so if you know that is going to happen. It still hurts, but it takes a little bit of the sting off of. Especially when you relate to.

It happened to him happen to Christ Skip so having having voicing ministry is very amazing and yet there is a different the different time but yet that I respect the fact that they have bet that biblical anger yeah and that's what gives me great great relief, great hope right and outside somebody once said love God with all of your heart and do whatever you want say find the will of God and first people kinda were shocked by that but it's true right if you love God you are going to do a goblins and and so I think that stay in the word young preacher be anchored to the text and do what you want. Let let your own style blossom by we are at and they have and they've done tremendous left one generation I were both grandfathers nor dinosaur. I did know how good is that being a grandfather. Oh my goodness Ida had aversive I knew how fun it was. It is some it's in our unit we all know the joke that got Gary there. Grandchildren are God's reward for you not killing your kids raising kids is wonderful but having the grandchildren is just like icing on the cake all day long. It does give you a different perspective of of of of the future and frankly it concerns me.

Yeah, you were both baby boomers.

We lived in the bubble of prosperity. Like few generations ever have right and I have concerns about the future of of our kids. You concern especially when you know what they're going to be exposed to what our kids are exposed to what's available in social media. What's available on the Internet. The ideologies going around the progressive ideologies in our culture in churches etc. etc. it's you know they're up against a big battle yet. We always have bet that that knowledge that God loves them more than we do. That's right. And that's no small thing right and it's exciting to think about what the Lord might do to use them to impact the culture that is so awry with thanks for the time Skip one final question becomes individual music Lennon or McCartney.

That's a well they were best together and they were not as good a part they kinda had good hits on their own, but let's face it, the blending of their voices and talents is what made it work know we both seem McCartney in person. That was a minute to see the beetle was amazing. That was amazing is amazing group.

It's not you know I I have prayed for Paul McCartney for years.

John Lennon had an interesting bout for a while with Jesus coming to Christ. There's books that a been written about that. In his life where he wept and prayed and wrote songs and let people know that, but it's true and that can be validated. Paul McCartney stole I would be great to see in your eyes that would be great to be in London and have Paul McCartney usual worship leader but that ship is probably sale, but does orca still do work and just like Bob Dylan think of what the Lord did in his life, and I pray for him weekly as well that God would just rekindle that fire.

Let's close with that thoughts scripted by Bob Dylan was the equivalent of a beetle, wouldn't you agree most early seismic cultural icon while he was to the Beatles, Dylan influence the Beatles. He change the way the Beatles wrote songs, and especially John Lennon is highly impacted by him. So yeah, Dylan is impacted the world. Many got the Nobel Peace Prize.

So today we have the equivalent of it in the Justin Bieber to some degree Kanye West influencing the culture, but we don't depend on them in your gut uses those those cultural figure. It's exciting to take to see and read about the spiritual journey in the songs of both of them are not only acknowledging the Lord for telling their audience. What's important and trying to use their voice to get going bring the people Skip association with shiftless continued to visually connect with Skip for our friends who were donors to the scope want to thank you for your financial health in the past few years. This teaching ministry has continued its growth trend escape mentioned to do more grow more and reach more people with verse by verse, Bible study, we invite you to help us do that during vision week. Please consider a one-time growth. It is easy to call one 800-9222 88 or go online to connect with skip.special resource package for hearing the details. We like to send you a signed copy of skip's latest book, the biography of God will also receive a hardcover copy of Joel Rosenberg's excellent new book enemies and allies Skip plays a part of the story of seismic changes in the Middle East. Your copy of both books with your gift of $50 or more to connect with Skip to support the growth of these Bible teachers. If you been impacted by Scripps messages is your vote for growth. Peter call 1-800-922-1888 or go online to connectwithskip.com and give your tax-deductible gift today is the next program on vision we will hear from Nate Heitz's thoughts on Christian authors and artists diluting construction Skip presentation of connection communication ever-changing time