Carolina Journal Radio No. 883: Post COVID-19 future unclear for North Carolina

From chair to current attack from the largest city to the smallest and from the statehouse into the schoolhouse Carolina Journal radio your weekly news magazine discussing North Carolina's most of public policy events and issues welcome Carolina Journal radio why Michiko got during the next hour, Donna Martinez and I will explore some major issues affecting our state closed school buildings mean.

Many North Carolina families are getting their first taste of online education will get some helpful hints from the head of a public online charter school.

State lawmakers continue to have concerns about the state Transportation Department's spending habits you learn why if the covert 19 pandemic as you longing for the days when nonlethal political scandal dominated the headlines will give you a brief break from the health woes by focusing on lessons from Watergate plus will learn how all of the disruption in our lives today is affecting Marquis election matchups in North Carolina. The matchups for governor and U.S. Senate.

Those topics are just ahead. First, Donna Martinez joins us with the Carolina Journal headline going to work flying on an airplane eating in a restaurant hosting a birthday party attending a church service in person just some of the things that many of us have not been able to do with our family and our friends for several weeks now due to government prohibitions while we deal with the spread of covert, 19, so when we emerge. What will we have learned and how should our recovery. Look Amy Cook is the CEO for the John lock foundation. She joins me now to talk about a look ahead as we move ourselves out of this unprecedented situation.

Amy welcome back to the program.thanks so much for having me. We have heard the president talk a lot about looking ahead and here in North Carolina.

We are waiting at least as of the time you and I are talking for governor Roy Cooper to make some statements about what will the future look like and how will we roll out this reopening of North Carolina that is so true Tana the state budget director has come out and sad. I know this will shock anyone that if we aren't already in a recession were headed towards what is it that something we couldn't all feel pricing for those of us you every day seems the same now because you know someone told me marches lasted forever right however long were into this and at least the earliest we would look at reopening the North Carolina economy to want on any level is April 30.

You would think that if were looking ahead to April 30 that our governor would have at least something in his mind about how we phase in reopening and Carolina Journal actually asked the governor that question and it is a legitimate question. It is a question we all have talking about it right here right now how do we reopen were looking at it if you don't if it is April 30. We don't know but if it is April 30 which is the way it stands right now is we are talking about it.

That's a few weeks away, but we have to. There has to be some kind of a plan and we asked her Carolina Journal asked that of the governor. It wasn't that he said listen, I'll have something or he didn't say you know what, I'm not ready to make that public or were having those conversations there in the early stages. He simply didn't respond at all, and it's been I think all well it's been probably almost a week since that question has been posted to him and Dave and Carolina Journal followed up and then and then asked listen to Jeevan get the email this this is a legitimate question to ask of the chief executive of our state court on everyone's mind. People are my impression Amy is that is that people are more than willing to do their part detritus stop the spread of this it's it's serious.

We haven't seen something like this before, but we are also are seeing people starting more and more to talk about it in case Carolina Journal to ask important questions about where is the balance and where what is the endgame, at least, what is the measure by which we will say okay this metric.

We've now reached it, and therefore stage I of recovery begins when we can. We start phasing and certain certain businesses. I think at what point, what is the tripwire like you.

So what's the tripwire when we flattened the curve and up to where we can start talking about being safe at work, rather than shutting down the business. So here's how you can be safe while working.

We don't have to shut you down. It was interesting.

The mayor of Chicago. Got a haircut. Literally have access to that person. One of the hotspots of the country and her point was I'm the face of our city streets and that but the person who cut my hair, wore a mask and gloves okay.

We all agreed that if that will keep the mayor, the chief executive of Chicago safe key at the rest of us start doing that very same thing to. She was being safe while getting a service. I think we can do this but again, what is that tripwire and and and when do we start seeing the flattening of the curve coming out with those in these models time that they're all over the place so part of it is what you do. What is a tripwire well which model are unified and follow the one that has tens of thousands of people dying to follow the one that says you know what I think were when you practice safe social distancing.

When you're wearing a mask and when you're wearing gloves or you're doing all the things you need to be safe. Can we flattened that curve and keep and reopen the economy. We cannot continue like this for too much longer and I had a conversation by text not in person conversation, my text with someone who is just a small business person and it's a one-person operation and he was asking me well I guess I need to look into this whole federal action and will I be one where I can actually get a lifeline to try to keep my business open because he can't do anything he's considered nonessential and I said you know need to check out the rules and all that. And so after we texted about that. He then texted you know I even if I'm eligible for that the federal lifeline money is. As he put it, that's not what I want.

I just want to go back to work.

I just want to work.

There's also it isn't just the financial aspect of it.

It's also just sort of the units, like almost mental health aspect of getting out of your house and going to work there is that there is that there is that you don't confidence that comes from working, earning a living, putting food on the table for your for your children. I I was listening to the Wall Street Journal that they have a podcast every morning was listening.

I was listening to that and they're talking about possibly putting more money into that SBA that that lifeline because much of its already gone, and there are people that tried to get it that that couldn't recheck protection for right right couldn't couldn't get it couldn't get it and showed that now they're making hard choices on do we lay people off were in a very critical phase right now chief executives have to come out one way or the other and let folks know or we can start phasing in opening. Can we reopen and practice safe social distancing and and being safe. I think we can were Americans. We can do a whole lot of things. One of them is it's getting back to work and doing it safely because were all concerned about her health, our families, and everything absolutely. And as we await them more information from governor Roy Cooper as to what his administration's plan might be to open up North Carolina again.

We know Amy based on the research done by analysts or the John Locke foundation that were better off than most states when it comes to opening the doors back up and being able to handle what could turn out to be critical needs in the meantime because we got roughly $3 billion question here, not we want to spend all that now, but if we have to. We can write we do have. Might one of the things work and have to watch out for and it's not just North Carolina it's a whole bunch of states but it's it's that delay in tax revenue.

Sogeti I'm infected right and getting through to June 30 which is the which is the end of the fiscal year will we have to do something to backfill that and then it's not available for next year. I think you're to see you you like you said North Carolina thanks to the excellent leadership at the state capital letter at our state legislature. They budgeted wisely.

They budgeted prudently and that's why we have some cushion and yes we are in a better position than many other states still have to look at the budget carefully. Amy Cook is the CEO of the John lot foundation think tank.stay with his mentor Carolina Journal radio to come in just a moment tired of fake names tired of reporters with political axes to grind. What you need to be reading Carolina Journal honest, uncompromising, old-school journalism, you expect and you need even better, the monthly Carolina Journal is free to subscribers sign up at Carolina. Journal.com. You'll receive Carolina Journal newspaper in your mailbox each month. Investigations into government spending revelations about boondoggles who the powerful leaders are and what they're doing in your name and with your money. We shine the light on it all with the stories and angles.

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You won't be disappointed. It's fresh news if you'd like a heads up on the daily news sign up for daily email do that Carolina Journal.com Carolina Journal, rigorous, unrelenting, old-school journalism, we hold government accountable for you. Welcome back Carolina Journal Radio One which coca the covert, 19 pandemic is shut down North Carolina schools it's forced parents to learn about online education. During a recent John Locke foundation event conducted online and expert offered parents ideas about how to deal with education conducted through computer.

Lauren income is head of school at the North Carolina virtual Academy and online charter school. She discussed adjusting student schedules to an online environment that works for you. The picture where traditional school really works well for you makes sense for their use will you set realistic goals goal or should you sell, you and your traditional work where we knew there were what is to be doing daily questions.

Make sure you know there were really festering teachers who have never conducted classes online are now learning about virtual education that oppresses ache amazing to watch teachers across the state. Traditional red and mortar charter school environments really come together to do what resources teachers help training to principal really doing their thing here. Jacob offered some ideas for ensuring that online education is working for children we communicate here, you can phone calls computer. No teacher just tell us what you are noticing the covert, 19 pandemic is revealing some facts about education in North Carolina is proving that we do need alternate settings to school and we do need to box. We need to be created with the way you education you larger discussion between educational leaders and state leaders as to what our education looks like you were in a crisis right now and we know this is something else that school should we should be able to continue to provide rigorous quality instruction during what you that's Lauren income head of school at the North Carolina virtual Academy. She spoke recently for the John Locke foundation about the challenges and opportunities linked online learning becomes old-school is remained open throughout the pandemic.

It has an expanded state of ITS size to their be able to allow not only works for traditional school. There are many family Jacob explains why a transition to online education involves some challenges and so will work just instruction. It has changed their school experience in brick-and-mortar, we do have more success stories for students to have not been successful.

Traditional written mortar. What's the school day like online learning to demonstrate we do all work directly with what's the future for online education in North Carolina expects policymakers to discuss that question, larger stations, you will be a large will see you here the teacher as well that their goal is to do what's best for kids and so we structure all schools for success just not just schools and districts for the patient but we really need our success.

That's Lauren income head of school at the North Carolina virtual Academy. She took part in a recent online event sponsored by the John Locke foundation will return with more Carolina Journal radio. If you have freedom we got great news to share with you now. You can find the latest news, views, and research from conservative groups across North Carolina all in one place North Carolina conservative.com it's one stop shopping. North Carolina's freedom movement and North Carolina conservative.com.

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You also support freedom. Don't forget log on to smile.amazon.com today, something nice and help defend freedom, help support the John Mott foundation Carolina jewelry DOI Michiko God, the North Carolina Department of Transportation is come under fire because of overspending. DOT officials recently told lawmakers about efforts to fix the problem but state representative Dana Bumgardner has continuing concerns. Sounds like he's got some serious issues here and maybe you will have close the barn door at the horses out for your slowing down or stopping maintenance. Are we saving money on maintenance now in the future. It's going to be more expensive to fix this didn't happen overnight just been a long time coming and how were going to move forward. John McGinnis also raised concerns peers by stone everything recently is also clear is not complex called new employees.

DOT has delayed some spending that raised the question for State Sen. Rick on the site were actually worse financial condition in front of them were made to this presentation has led us to believe should we as a legislative body of the dissipating you to come back with her hands out for some pretty significant additional appropriations.

This is a black marker stricken it so it's hard for all of us person for us. We are amid criticism.

DOT has defenders public representative John Corbett took aim at some colleagues to come back in with her hands out � I don't ever know, the better the network. There are remedies. For example, when over 600 million is going to litigation led time.

It's not the roads and bridges are right over Barry's six arm is going litigation relative to a court settlement when you have 300 that's coming out of the copper should be okay for hurricane relief when you have fun sitting over here and another bank account that could provide that temporarily until it's federally reimbursed to be paid back. That's money is not going to people, bridges, roads, rails, ports and airports all that so there is a solution that will however serve coming back with her hand out a list of projects that are in each person's area and have us go back home and decide with the people back home. It made the decision on those projects which ones to delay or which ones to remove an effort to bring our overall spin right down so they would never have to worry about being over under and we just go back before we began leadership and go back to the 400 projects a year instead of 1200 projects a year. That's state representative John Corbett defending the North Carolina Transportation Department multiple colleagues had questioned its spending habits with more Carolina Journal radio in a moment where doubling down on freedom at Carolina Journal radio were proud to bring you stories that impact your life and your wallet.

And now get twice as much freedom when you also listen to our podcast headlock available on iTunes and@johnlocke.org/podcast headlock is a little bit different. It's a no holds barred discussion that challenges softheaded ideas from the left and the right light Carolina Journal radio headlock is smart and timely but with headlock you'll hear more about the culture wars get some more humor as well. We guarantee great information and a good time double down with us. Listen to Carolina Journal radio each week and was headlock to remember, you can listen to headlock@johnlocke.org/podcast or subscriber download each week iTunes Carolina Journal radio and headlock just what you need to stay informed and stay entertained both brought to you in the name of freedom by the John Locke foundation will go back to Carolina Journal radio I Michiko God. He has served as North Carolina's Atty. Gen. and its Secretary of State. He took part in one of the roughest campaigns for governor in North Carolina history and he played a role in exposing the Watergate scandal. I can only be talking about Rufus Edmiston and he discusses all of these topics and more in her new book. It's called that's Rufus, a memoir of Tar Heel politics, Watergate and public life.

If he joins us now to share part of the story program that will run out of fear that there are many things we could talk about but to since our time is limited.

Let's focus on one item that is actually in the subtitle of the book Watergate remind us how did you get involved in all of this. Best of Watergate Metro staff member will serve as urban North Carolina for Morgan and our children. When I was growing up and I will work for sure. So I kept pestering him to definitely work for. I worked on his constitutional rights and separation partial review mail along famously called Watergate's trust in the middle of it and I was telling somebody that I was too young to have the responsibility 31 years old. You don't know anything at all much better this way bye-bye went to serve a subpoena on Richard Nixon. It was the first time in history those printed and served on the present by committee of the Congress and the courts are published.

Not unaware that it was very high charge day when I went down to the White House and I didn't have an entourage Salix you lose people there were very anxious about this visit was the first link that we knew when Mr. Nixon became involved in Watergate because of the revelation of the Butterfield Watergate tapes and that is where it started with the Sen., Irvin and Baker work like a team of horses together.

By the way the Russians want. They actually work together unlike today, we don't have fortifications will have silos that we didn't have those like we do today and they were a fantastic team together and Mr. Mixon. The nominal arsenal of the pros and so he let it get the best but that overseas call hubris. And thought that the present to do anything he wanted to do under article 2 of the Constitution and it didn't work in Watergate. So was a good example how when you work together things will work would be on the unfolding of working together since so it's never such Watergate.

We thought that that would would cure a lot of things.

It didn't Watergate as drug waters, almost day and night and so much of it which is occasioned by the huge amounts of money occasioned in my opinion by the decision. Socialist United and so Watergate or something that I will. I would say that most all illustrations should look and study Watergate so they will repeat almost seems as though this being repeated as we speak today you mentioned that you were working at the time for Sen. Sam Ervin who longtime North Carolinians will definitely know the name and people following politics today know his grandson is on upstate as a verb in the fourth people at the time could've said, oh, this is just Democrats in Congress try to get our Republican president. What did Sen. Sam Ervin do you mentioned in working with Sen. Baker to make sure this wasn't just some partisan issue, but this was really dealing with the real problem here in Sen. Baker made a deal in the very beginning we will not disagree on things. Never was there a vote for the setting vote on the livery of the subpoena, or any witnesses and also he was very careful to have a staff that was not dogmatic.

We were told, after time after time.

Go for the fracturing don't go off on the portion of projects that I'm afraid that we do that now, both from Chapel Hill and both remove executive branch are the people off on their own. Watergate also have had a public aspect to it.

As time went on, the public so that things were just right when you have a president who tapes reveals that okay with how much would it cost to pay them off. That's a pretty good sign that something is going on real badly that would get you 17 years in jail today and so it was a different era different time, kind of, to between the parties and actually most people think that Richard Nixon was was impeached and convicted, he was not, of course, as you well know, he left because they group of senators Republicans came down from Chapel Hill Sen. Barry Goldwater Sen. Hugh Scott and others is in the suppression. If you don't resign, they will increase. You sure you will get some of us will vote for conviction so it was a different time. We were not.

We were also fortified on each side and so so for some of us it's a totally different a lot of the common elements run through Watergate going strong today, but I will admit he is truly parsing today on both sides. We are lucky to have a chance to get into all of your future public life, but in serving as Atty. Gen. Secretary of State running for governor. What are some of the lessons you talk from Watergate for the rest of your political career. That sunshine is best of all things, and I mess up one time in my career and didn't follow the lessons I learned in Watergate hubris is such a disastrous disease that when you get puffed up one up on your own worth. You think you're better than everybody else and catch you at one time in my career sector straight didn't didn't follow those those good lessons. But I've learned that if you if you have public awareness of things that it is not so bad as it can be when you try to do government and secrecy. Secrecy is the enemy of the people, the press is not the people.

Secrecy is the people. That's the one thing about what do we put it all out there to save it several English teacher in chief America of constitutional law. All of these events took place 45 years ago or more. Are you surprised the Watergate is still as much a part of the public consciousness as it is today about all the turnaround is attached from wrongdoing or sketchy subject is not because it was the first time that America took part really in a great debate. We had McCarthy hearings were very few people that television and this was this.

Remember, which we were getting as many as 40,000 letters a week.

Nominal letters not only an email summary letters written out postcards and telegrams. The public was involved in it obvious that Tommy had only three channels plus public television that my goodness are so jumbled up the people's attention is focused on one of 1400 different channels one 24-hour news cycle.

We don't know what's going on so jumbled up in our few remaining moments. The lessons of Watergate. We talked about the need for transparency would need to be bipartisan. Do you think you were going to get to a political situation where we don't have gates in the future, or we always could have set up right now. Some of my friends, you know the what I do.

The political consultants are sure that we don't get together because I won't have as much bills which everybody now looks really are five second sound bite and it's going to be trying to be critical and it is his personal emotional time and we don't need that. If you would like to get more than soundbites and much more about the political history of Rufus Edmiston. You'll have to read the book is titled that's ruthless, a memoir of Tar Heel politics Watergate in public life. Thanks much for joining us for blood-borne Carolina Journal radio just about real influence. You either have it or you don't and at the John Mott foundation we have it, you'll find our guiding principles in many of the freedom forward reforms of the past decade here in North Carolina. So while others talk or complain or name call. We provide research solutions and hope our team analyzes the pressing issues of the day jobs, healthcare, education, and more. We look for effective ways to give you more freedom, more options, more control over your life.

Our goal is to transform North Carolina into a growing, thriving economic powerhouse, the envy of every other state research is how policymakers make decisions that ensure you keep more of what you are. Expand your choice of schools for your kids. Widen your job opportunities improve your access to doctors. The recipe for stability and a bright future for truth for freedom for the future of North Carolina. We are the John Locke foundation. Welcome back to Carolina Journal radio I'm Donna Martinez, the spread of covert, 19 has affected virtually every aspect of our lives potentially even the 2020 election, Democratic U.S. Senate candidate Kal Cunningham hopes to take away the Senate seat now held by Republican Tom Tillis and in an op-ed published in the Raleigh news and Observer Cunningham makes a case for his vision as we learn from the coronavirus now Carolina Journal is following this Senate race very closely and the covert, 19 epidemic Rick Anderson is editor-in-chief. He joins us now to talk about the potential impact on the election. Rick welcome back to the show.

Thank you. In this op-ed by Kal Cunningham.

He writes that the crisis requires additional federal action and that we must ensure rural communities have high speed broadband federal action for that, Rick. That's well that's something that of course progresses. Want to see happen. They would love to see the takeover of the broadband infrastructure entirely nationalized. It would have some sort of nationalization of the industry would not be beyond their request so that everybody get support for that it is not nationalized early so that everyone gets subsidies gives it for free.

The other subsidy programs already in place so that's beside the point right now.

People who are low income. That's something they already can get that for the question is more access. This is something the Gen. assembly here.

North Carolina is debated quite frequently and has come up with some ways to expand the access but this Carolina Journal is reporting now for more than 10 years problem when you get the government involved directly in building the infrastructure for broadband is that quite often. By the time the government gets around to constructing something technology is outdated before it's even deployed. This is a very fast-moving industry and so the idea of perhaps instead of doing something like food stamps, giving people a subsidy to purchase Internet service provider is a better way to go if you're going to provide income to provide access to people who don't have it right now. Let them go out in the marketplace good for it and then the provider shall come all the new 5G technology is rolling out is largely wireless, is, like cell towers if you will, in some ways you don't need to ditch his rights-of-way calls great disruptions to lay fiber and cable you just doing it straight through wireless signals so that that's sort of the way to go. Cunningham is talking about this right now without really specifying does he mean laying one gig fiber through the middle of the forest or does he mean 5G and basically wants the feds get involved. Who knows what that will I think you've laid out that the policy implications in the different options really appropriately yet.

I also thought Rick that it was really smart politics for Kal Cunningham to write about this now and get it published in eight major North Carolina newspaper because obviously we now have school kids who are now receiving at dictation online. So the question of broadband access and equality and use that word" is now front and center from every parent*politics ~1 of the issues.

To this is where the government got in the way if you will visit by closing schools closing libraries the state is actually cut off access to who knows how many students who got there broadband access from their school library and so this is a situation which the government's creator problem.

They'll try to solve probably created, so that's not the current problems of the. The other thing is that you do have some school systems that I've been reading about some of the rural counties that are actually figure out ways asking parents to drive their children to the parking lot of the schools that may be within range of the schools broadband network and that way they can do some of get some of the materials at least might have a classroom instruction done that way. But at least their materials and all they can do that so many people try to figure out ways to make this work but it sounds to me as if stiff if Kal Cunningham has more of a one-size-fits-all solution in mind and that usually is problematic that meantime Cunningham's competitor is the Republican incumbent in the U.S. Senate at Tom Tillis.

He's been doing some tele-town hall some fun things we think about that strategy. This shows the example of how incumbency could be a real benefit if approved of an elected official is involved during time of crisis that the person who actually has the ability to pull some believers to make some things happen. If that person is accessible if that person is willing to go out and talk to people and explain what's going on. This is a great opportunity to use the so-called bully pulpit center tells us to do this almost daily. I think God for television outlets. I think he's done it for different associations and groups like that and they all been openly been on Facebook and some other platform is publicly accessible is not as if he just broadcasting it to up to a specific audience necessarily so this is all things that that an incumbent senator become an elected official of any sort should do during times of crisis is to be out there to answer questions to reassure people or tell them how long it's going to be before something is likely to happen and he's taking advantage of speaking of leadership and not talking to your constituents.

We have seen that nearly daily. Over the past several weeks from Gov. Roy Cooper, who of course I wants to be reelected for another term and Rick, we seen a polar to that show that North Carolinians like the job that he's doing leading the state during the covert, 19 crisis. So is this something that he can essentially in political terms ride into a second term could help. It really could present from price during this time because typically speaking, people look to the executive provide information comfort some sort of idea of roadmaps and things like that the governor has been doing a news conference is pretty much every other day at least twice a week is about three times a week at the emergency management center is Sec. of Health and Human Services Dr. medico what is in their daily along with the emergency manager Mike Sprague. They've all been available there and is the sort of thing. But definitely you can ride to two advantage of the question is the delivery. How well is he going to do. It's a long time between now and November. So if you seem to be someone who is responding as if his administration is getting things moving again.

If there being responsible in the way they are handling the eventual reopening of things. He's not being arbitrary, and how is enforcing laws and all the sorts of things put together this can be very good for if there are major hiccups or glitches along the way that it could be worse because again the focus is going to be on him because he's the person in charge. What is this mean for his Republican challenger Dan Forrest haven't seen a whole lot heard a whole lot from the current Lieut. Gov. past couple weeks like this is a challenge for the children he's going to have some tough times breaking through. Now, if there are slip-ups that don't don't directly appear as if he's trying to gain partisan advantage by pointing out the slip-ups of their opportunities for governor site look this something I could do better.

This would be better. This would happen on my watch and potentially that gets us into the questions about how will we recover out of this and what will the Cooper administration's plan B for opening up North Carolina Carolina journal has been asking questions of the governor and as of the point you and I are talking, Rick. We haven't gotten answers or you haven't gotten answers from Gov. Cooper about his plan. Once we get through this. To allow the state to recover. That's right would ask specific questions about what our metrics are looking at what the goals are looking for what is reopening look like, how soon we know what sort of advice is he taking and were not getting a kind of answers all even read it all.

Carolina journal.com Rick Anderson is editor-in-chief. Thank you Rick thank you that's all the time we have for the program this week. Thank you for listening on behalf of my cohost Mitch.

Okay I'm Donna Martinez hope you'll join us again next week for another edition of Carolina journal radio Carolina journal radio is a program of the John Locke foundation to learn more about the John Locke foundation donations that support programs like Carolina journal radio send email to development John lock call 166 jail left info 166554636 Carolina journal radio is the John line foundation, Carolina's free-market think tank Carolina broadcasting system, Inc. all opinions expressed on this program are so do not merely reflect the station. For more information about the show. Other programs and services of the foundation, toll-free at 866 JL would like to thank our wonderful radio affiliates across Carolina Carolina journal radio.

Thank you for listening. Please join us again next week