Carolina Journal Radio No. 705: Burr could play important Senate role as Trump heads to D.C.

From Cherokee to current attack from the largest city to the smallest and from the statehouse into the schoolhouse Carolina Journal radio your weekly news magazine discussing North Carolina's most of public policy events and issues welcome to Carolina Journal radio why Pacheco got during the next hour, Dr. Martines and I will explore some major issues affecting our state. The new president of the University of North Carolina, believes higher education should be a civil right. Margaret spellings used for official installation ceremony to make her case, you'll hear highlights for government threatens private property rights when it misuses the power of eminent domain you hear from an attorney who's working to fight that abuse of power. The US economy could benefit greatly from business tax reform.

Heritage foundation expert offered that argument during a recent speech in Charlotte. He shares his views with Carolina Journal radio Republican Richard Burr held off a tough challenge from Democrat Deborah Ross to win his third and final term is North Carolina's senior US Sen. you hear highlights from burrs election night victory speech and comments from Ross's concession. And speaking of elections Donna Martinez tackles that topic as she joins us now with the Carolina Journal headline when North Carolina Sen. Richard Burr heads back to Washington in the U.S. Senate.

Following his election victory over Deborah Ross. He will be working with a White House led by fellow Republican Donald Trump now that scenario is likely to mean more opportunity for movement and reform on issues of key importance to conservatives and possibly libertarians as well. Carolina Journal editor-in-chief Rick Henderson joins me now with a look at several of those issues Rick, welcome back to the shell. Thank you. Healthcare seems like it's going to be a priority and at the top of the list is the affordable care act or Obama care.

Now the Trump who campaigned talked about repealing and replacing Obama care. Let's start with that first. Are there really things that could chip away at Obama care.

Yes there are. It's it was surprising to actually see that this could be done without actually having a vote to dismantle the act, necessarily, but Michael Cannon of the Cato Institute posted that there are some things that by Executive Order a president Trump could do congressional cooperation would help some things that the a president Trump could do to, in effect, finished right about one thing he could say that they would no longer prove the government would no longer provide subsidies that have been ruled unconstitutional by a federal judge, which has happened is that some of subsidies are unconstitutional. Also, the Government accountability office found that some subsidies were being handed out by federal or state governments were were not appropriate that in so he could say where I got to pay those anymore also said that he could to the dump truck could say if insurance companies come to the federal government for a bailout because they're losing money because you lose money on their moniker policies. Too bad. And this is would be in line with his I'm not gonna bailout the financial institutions are not going to be on the side of the big banks at something, then 1/4 thing is he could simply say that Congress can no longer exempt itself Obama care, boy that's likely get their attention to members of Congress are going to have to sign up for formal Eric care act policies could do that by Executive Order, or if Congress rejected when you refuse to go along with the and of course that would cause a huge public relations nightmare for the new Congress. Clear things like that that could basically cause the affordable care act go into a financial cascade downhill and that could affect God Congress to do something quickly about that you mention congressional involvement in all that time we've heard some opponents of Obama care, say, why don't they just defund it with that be an option to work directly with Congress on it that could be done yes and that would be something that would be a little more complicated because it does involve changes in the tax code, things like that but the but there are certain things that Michael Cannon pointed out the control of the executive branch to agree to to pay and so Congress can do that. I think the problem with with doing away with Obama care immediately is unless you have some plan in place to handle things like people who have lose their health insurance because they change jobs or they hit the income threshold because of Medicaid eligible hats rethink those sorts of transitions you have to be ready in well. Fortunately, our senior senator happens to have devised a plan that would take care of many of those things and he introduced it here several years ago and talked about at the gelato – and of course talking about Sen. Richard Burr who was just reelected so that will be interesting to see what relationship develops between Sen. Burr and and the White House. I'm one other thing that Sen. Burris and working on has to do with FDA drug approval. Tell us about that well for the time he was in Congress, then then representative Burr was very active in the FDA reform movement and one thing he was looking very closely at was the time it takes to approve new drugs that go through pipeline that there were a number of trials and testing and things like that that require drugs to be proven both safe and effective before people could use them we've seen in some states in enacting measures that are called the right to try and that is if the drug is gone through the process of of approval and is safe than people who are terminally ill could be allowed to use them even if they have a nest of improved effective because people who were probably going to die anyway.

Why shouldn't they have the opportunity to have some sort of treatment that might make out and reduce her pain.

Recall some reduction suffering or possibly even have some reversal of the symptoms that they undergo.

This is something that that Sen. Byrne might consider working on the federal level, because he certainly worked on improvements in healthcare for people of families who have children with autism and other sorts of disabilities and things like that. This would be something that will be right up his alley because he certainly has favored fast approval of drugs that are safe and speeding up the federal the Food and Drug Administration's process by doing things like allowing contractors to some of the approvals rather than have the government do all measures like that which at the margins can bring lifesaving cures to market a lot faster now. Sen. Burr of course sits in the U.S. Senate.

He'll be there for another six year term, the Senate, of course, gets involved in approving nominations to the US Supreme Court and now with Donald Trump preparing to become the 45th president in January.

We know that there's a vacancy right now on the US Supreme Court due to the death of Justice Antonin Scalia earlier this year, but there's also talk Rick that this new president could potentially have more seats that he would fill should there be retirements from one or two other current justices. So let's talk a little bit about the Supreme Court Donald Trump on the campaign trail actually put out a list of people that were potential nominees. Why did he do that and what you make of those folks what what what he did was he wanted to reassure conservatives that he was going to look at making the court into something that is more of his vision. That's one reason we have elections because that allows the president to make appointments and nominations to different executive and legislative branch positions and what this was to do was to reassure conservatives that he was actually going to look at judges and justices who would not be legislators if you will be people who would interpret the Constitution interpret the law fairly strictly he was to Justice Scalia as his model, justice, and he named a number of people who would be very effective in that regard also had to reassure people because at one point he's reportedly said that he thought his sister was an appellate court judge – it would be a great Supreme Court justice, and she's very liberal, so I think he had to offset that a little better, but he actually provided some names of some very thoughtful people who would be I think very acceptable to a Republican Senate and who would also be very much within the mainstream of the judiciary, and so I think you were greater role that pretty quickly now.

The question then becomes, will incoming Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell bypass the 60 vote not rule with the 60 vote gentlemen's agreement. If you will, among senators that you have to do that to to prevent the nomination from England before being debated. Going forward now.

Also, it's not just the Supreme Court that the new president would be able to nominate folks for the federal judiciary at this point has a little bit more than 100 vacancies so it seems like the new president would be able to have quite an impact on the federal court to strike me with 100 vacancies either at the trial court or appellate court level, then this this new process can have his work cut out for. He's really going to have to work quickly on vetting potential candidates for the still judicial positions and getting them in place and this is not a this is not a quick process because I've lived through this and other areas in which there were openings all court and because of the process of vetting background checks of making sure that everybody pass security clearance, that something this process takes months and so this is something that they may try to do even during the transition period is to try to start the process for getting a potential judges ready for confirmation very quickly to be a fascinating time over the next several months for sure Rick Henderson is editor-in-chief of Carolina. Journal of course you can read all of the Carolina journal stories and commentaries@carolyninternal.com. Thank you. Thank you. Say with as much more Carolina internal radio income in just a moment, North Carolina is changing not just day-to-day but outward to our minute to minute and 2nd to 2nd, how can you keep up with the changes, especially the ones that affect you, your family, your home, your job, make the John Locke foundation and Carolina journal part of your social media diet on Facebook like the John Locke foundation like Carolina. Journal follow us on twitter at John lock in the sea and at Carolina journal news, insights and analysis you'll find nowhere else. Thanks to the experts at the John Locke foundation and thanks to the first-class investigative reporting of Carolina journal. Don't wait for the morning newspaper. Don't wait for the evening news if it's happening now it's happening here the John Locke foundation and Carolina journal.

Have you covered with up to the second information like us on Facebook the John Locke foundation and Carolina journal follow us on Twitter at John Locke NC and at Carolina journal. Welcome back Carolina journal radio I Michiko got seven months after arriving in Chapel Hill. Margaret spellings faced the official installation ceremony as president of the University of North Carolina system responded with a speech asking some questions. What if all North Carolina hands reach their full potential. What would that mean for our state and what would it take for us to get there. What if all of our citizens at any age to get the kind of education they need, when and where they need it at a price they can afford. What would it mean for their lives and careers for their families and their children and what would it mean for our economy for the civic and cultural life of our state for our competitiveness and prosperity spellings reminded her audience of the UNC system's role. We have a constitutional mandate to provide a quality education as free as practicable at his own inaugural nearly 30 years ago president Dick Spangler is here today to find that promise. Very simply that no one in our state is denied a college education because of the lack of money are we keeping that historic promise or has that. Are we living up to that ideal or has that challenge only deepened in the past three decades. Raise these questions because I doubt the greatness of the University of North Carolina. I raise them because I believe in it so deeply spellings. Since UNC has been an educational leader since the 18th century, we must lead again and recognizing quality higher education as a new civil rights a vital part of our founding promise. That means meant making education possible for all everybody and that's never been done before. Not here. Not anywhere else that you would see system president Margaret spellings speaking at her official installation ceremony in Chapel Hill spellings says North Carolina has one of the finest university systems in the country.

We also have far too many citizens whose lives and ambitions are limited by geography by income by struggling K-12 schools by tuition that seems out of reach. We can do something about that. It can be easy to forget when you live in a thriving region like this one, or attend one of the state's top high schools. Most North Carolinians don't have a college education or the opportunities that come with it. We can and we must do something about that. The opportunity to pursue an education beyond high school is far from equal across our state. A high school senior and one county can be twice as likely to earn a college degree as a student in a neighboring district. Statistics are not destiny, of course, but a few miles can make a world of difference and we cannot allow a child's future to be dependent on ZIP Code, nor can we afford to let economic hardship limit potential. Today we are leaving behind thousands of capable students who never even applying to college because it doesn't seem possible for them. Low income students enroll in college at far lower rates than their wealthier peers, even when their academic performance and test scores are the same. That is a tragic waste of talent.

And we absolutely must do something about that at a time when our state and nation are growing more diverse when the school-age population of North Carolina is 50% minority and growing.

We absolutely cannot tolerate pernicious gaps in opportunity spellings looks for a new focus on higher education. It's time to raise our expectations once again. Higher education is the next frontier. A new civil rights. Every child must be able to reach beyond high school that has to become our expectation, our promise for a rising generation that may mean a four-year degree and masters or doctorate. It could mean an Associates degree or professional credential, whatever form it takes quality higher education has become a critical measure of our standing in the world, and after a century of leading the way. We've begun to fall back for our most vulnerable citizens. The cost of higher education is daunting. We know that college can be life-changing for those who graduate, opening a world of possibility that echoes across generations, but it can also be life altering for those who don't graduate leaving them indebted and adrift at the cost of college has risen, so too has the cost of failure. We must lower the risk of pursuing opportunity spellings focused on key challenges for too many students, those who borrowed and didn't graduate those he spent too much time and money before finding their way. The payoff is harder to see our system. Too often fails those who come from rural low income, first-generation and minority families. They are the students most likely to leave school with debt but no degree to take longer than necessary to graduate to languish in expensive remedial classes or to forgo college altogether as long as we tolerate such divides an opportunity.

The fundamental promise of higher education remains unfulfilled. We must make known the lasting value of quality higher education to a public that has grown more skeptical.

What is Margaret spellings role in this new world of higher education.

It's my job to help define success.

What does it mean to be accessible, affordable to have efficient and excellent and diverse institutions to make a real impact on the economy and well-being of North Carolina. How do we define student success and hold ourselves accountable for achieving it. Answering those questions will mean thinking differently about how we do our work, how we meet our students wherever they are and prepare them well.

We must adapt the way we teach the way we advise the way we mentor and guide students. We must give people choices about the kind of education that works best for them. That means straightforward tools and information about borrowing about the career prospects of different majors and degrees, and about the expectations of success at each of our institutions. We must explore new ways of making education available to working men and women returning veterans to parents and professionals. We need creative partnerships with community colleges, local governments, businesses, nonprofits, faith-based organizations are K-12 system and civil rights leaders to raise expectations of higher education for all that's UNC system president Margaret spellings speaking at her official installation ceremony in Chapel Hill, North Carolina. Journal radio in a moment at the John Locke foundation where leading the effort to clean up the mess left behind by big government liberals for decades. The powerful left in our state had piled on rule after rule, regulation after regulation never really caring about the people whose lives are caught in the nightmare of complying. In other words, you their handiwork had made it tougher to get a job even increase the legal risk of operating a business. We say enough is enough that it's just not fair to you. That's why reform minded lawmakers have turned to the Locke foundation for answers and acted to lighten your burden were proud that our intellectual firepower has improved lives. You can count on the John Locke foundation to watch out for your interest. The special interests.

We would be honored to have your help in this fight.

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So here's how it works logon to smile.amazon.com Amazon smile. It's the same Amazon you know same products same prices is much better. Amazon donates .5% of the price of your eligible purchases to pass the John Locke foundation to try it. Be sure to designate the Locke foundation is a nonprofit, you want to support. It's that easy. So now not only will you enjoy what you buy. You'll also support freedom. Don't forget logon to smile.amazon.com today by something nice and help defend freedom. Support the John Locke foundation. Welcome back to Carolina journal radio why Michiko got Republican Richard Burr will serve the third and final term as North Carolina's senior US Sen. Byrd defeated Democrat Deborah Ross to win his latest six year term on election night burner already started looking forward to what we might face in relation but we know this for over 240 years Americans always risen to the challenges whichever way we came will not retreat in our commitment to the cause of freedom to be one nation where liberty and justice is available to all as Americans we literally bring their freedom everyday unlike so many other nations which courses through our veins and thousands of Americans, or should the blood, the guarantee we keep her heart swell with pride, knowing we live in the greatest land ever known to mankind in different differences between the candidates.

But now that the election is over, it's time to move forward with solving the very real problems that we face as a nation. Those of us who service elected officials must do so in a way that positively affects all of our citizens. That's our obligation is our responsibility. We should be prepared to make tough decisions is that our nation's founders and so many who are remembered for the contributions that they've made all of America and I'm proud to serve in some way to make our future better for all that live and to keep America safe from the threats of terrorist and provide everyone a chance to achieve their hearts desire. Burr noted the bittersweet nature of winning an election without his parents present to celebrate, even though my parents are gone. Our first grandchild arrived earlier this year, so I will hold of her future and the future of your grandchildren. That's why Iran again this year to make sure she all of your grandchildren have the unlimited opportunities in a safer world in which to live the will of life continues to turn one generation leaves the stage of the mother enters our pledge to you to finish my public service doing all I can to make sure that the next generation feels the full effects of what we can accomplish and conceding the Democrat Ross made another plea for her issues.

We all saw the way people who are just here we see our that's Democrat Deborah Ross. You also heard from Republican Richard Burr wintering North Carolina's latest U.S. Senate race will return with more Carolina journal radio moment. If you love freedom we got great news to share with you now. You can find the latest news, views, and research from conservative groups all across the state.

All in one place North Carolina conservative.com one-stop shopping for North Carolina's freedom movement and North Carolina conservative.com. You'll find links to John Locke foundation blogs on the days news Carolina journal.com reporting and quick takes Carolina radio interviews TV interviews featuring CJ reporters and Locke foundation analyst plus opinion pieces and reports on higher education. All of that from the Pope Center for higher education policy commentary and polling data from the Cintas Institute and news and views from the North Carolina family policy Council. That's right, all of that, all in one place North Carolina conservative.com that's North Carolina spelled out conservative.com North Carolina conservative.com logon today. Welcome back to Carolina journal radio why Michiko got the words in the domain attracted public attention more than a decade ago when the US Supreme Court issued its controversial decision in a case called Filho versus city of New London since that case. Many states have taken additional steps to protect property owners against eminent domain abuse North Carolina peasant joining us now to discuss some issues surrounding eminent domain in North Carolina is Ruth Sheehan she's an attorney, Francis Loughran, thanks for joining us. I'm delighted to hear so first of all, before we talk about some of the cases in which your firm's been involved in still involved.

Let's remind people what's in the delay domain is the states state or government's right to essentially take your land for the public good and so generally speaking, that means the government will take land that is adjacent to an existing highway or in the path of a new highway for the railroad. For instance, or for sometimes utility pipelines and such and also will take over schools or some other public building absolutely always allegedly for the public good, Chris.

The kilo case is an interesting one, because there public good, was a little bit more questionable. And it certainly ended up infringing on the rights of middle-class homeowners and be like somebody coming to take my house and deciding that a development would be just the thing for inter-North Raleigh will that case, the kilo case was not in North Carolina but there are plenty of eminent domain related cases that Have Taken Pl. in North Carolina, some of which you refer is involved in.

Let's talk about some of them. One was taking that was on the coast and I Carolina journal readers will probably remember this case because it involves hammocks Beach tell us about that right so speech it actually started out as a legal case it really started out almost as trust and estate case because it was involved in an area called hammocks Beach near Swansboro.

Beautiful, beautiful coastal land that had been purchased 70 years ago by neurologist neurosurgeon in New York and she instead of giving it to his children. He gave it to the African-American gentleman who was sort of his guide assistant and Sunday and he had become very close to and he wanted to give it to to this guide and his wife and the wife was African-American teacher and she wanted the land instead to go for the benefit of young people and for African-American teachers at that time course speeches were still segregated and so interestingly, my boss, Mr. Charles Francis actually went there as a young child and ended up representing the heirs of this guide and his wife, because the land was set aside for those purposes by there was a provision in the well or in the deed that if the land ever was. Not being used for those purposes that would be offered to the state. The state declined then it would revert to the heirs of his his own children, grandchildren, and so forth. The land was offered to the state. The state turned it down. It was supposed to go to the heirs and then the state stepped in and tried to take it without any compensation from those heirs and that is really the work that our firm did in trying to correct that you know the there is nothing more for their few things more elemental in terms of of property rights than this notion it's written into our state constitutions written into the U.S. Constitution that if the government does take your land there needs to be just compensation so we actually were able to negotiate a deal where the stated ended up being able to purchase the land. Carolina journal is really really played a really important role in that case, and it's in its own way because it brought to light what was going on in that case and drew attention to the fact that there were key property issues there and you noticing that more and more that the government is trying to reach Sharon take and not justly compensate property owners and that's that's the problem right sometimes there needs to be a taking for public purposes, but the rightful owner needs to be appropriately hammocks Beach case had a good resolution were chatting with Ruth Sheehan who is an attorney with the Francis law firm and that would have a good resolution. We've also seen recently. Good resolution in court on the map back which is something that you are interested as well.

Yes, so the fact is just certain astonishing thing that that was on the books as long as it was, the Supreme Court overturned it just recently and basically under the map act, a public body could only take your land, but basically called dibs on your land and hold your land and prevent you from using the land as you would choose, like basically they could just freeze your land and its value for decades without compensating you for that and that is called basically is called an inverse condemnation so they don't just take it straight away. They hold it, but the effect of that is that you're not able to do what you want to do with land you can't sell it really renders your property value lists will as you just mentioned, the Supreme Court overturned the map back in the case of bursae counties. Another piece of good news. There are some ongoing cases and in the time we have left you mentioned the natural gas pipeline. It's supposed to go through North Carolina bride that is leading to some litigation as well. As we have some clients whose land has been affected in eastern North Carolina. The Atlantic pipeline. Of course that's natural gas pipeline is a project by Dominion energy in Virginia and Duke Power here and you know all the other utility companies are involved in that.

It's just interesting to see with that case, that they are they are not purportedly taking your entire property that what they claim is that they're just taking an easement, but it's an easement substantial swath of your land that they hold in perpetuity.

You continue to pay property taxes on that land. Their strategy is basically to reach property owners before they fully understand what's at stake and you know it's no surprise that the part of his make a lot of money. One of their one of their strategies is to get to the property owners early, make an offer for this use of the land and then they hold rights to that land forever, so that land then has a pipeline on it and the fine print of of some of those easements indicates that that that easement can be transferred to say to a petrochemical company in the future or to a different private operator we been speaking with Ruth Sheehan asked Mike doing more on Carolina journal radio at the John Locke foundation where leading the effort to clean up the mess left behind by big government liberals for decades. The powerful left in our state had piled on rule after rule, regulation after regulation never really caring about the people whose lives are caught in the nightmare of complying. In other words, you their handiwork had made it tougher to get a job even increase the legal risk of operating a business.

We say enough is enough that it's just not fair to you. That's why reform minded lawmakers have turned to the Locke foundation for answers and acted to lighten your burden were proud that our intellectual firepower has improved lives. You can count on the John Locke foundation to watch out for your interest. The special interests. We would be honored to have your help in this fight.

John Locke.org and make a tax-deductible donation.

Right now the John Locke foundation were fighting for you were fighting for freedom, welcome back to Carolina journal radio I'm Donna Martinez. Over the past several years. Fiscal reformers in the North Carolina legislature and the governor's office have passed historic tax reforms, lowering and flattening the personal income tax and the corporate income tax rates here in our state with President-elect Donald Trump set to take office in January. There's also now talk of federal tax reform as well. Our next guest says that business tax reform is very much needed. Krista Bay is an expert on taxation issues with the heritage foundation, Curtis welcome to Carolina journal radio. Why is it that you think we need business tax reform because the motor area one.

Having the biggest negative impact on the economy. Today we have the highest corporate tax rate in the developed world that is really what street you are generally a look at a country compared to other nation but we we look at corporate North almost 40%.

The average of our of our other developed countries hundred 25% were far, far above the norm that is hurting our ability to do for our of our business around the globe and hurting in terms of doing that you got your new uncertain investing abroad when you get that rate down and other important changes without otherwise will contribute to that investment and doesn't bring with it new jobs are weighted week we get that done were not going to get those proven jobs we do that we gently need to explain a little bit more now that corporate tax rate would put our companies US companies at a disadvantage in what way will you and why is that the US carbon income.

They are all around the globe. Other country on their country for you the world what other countries do territorial for them when their computer on the globe extra hired out in every other country because they have to pay about 4% rate on all around the globe domestically because they're looking to spend whatever you want to a great year of the investment that will be profitable, unprofitable, and be first victim in other locations where they do become profitable and not really hurting the economy back here the globe and that more new investment in every other country. We know that it will be Donald Trump who will become the 45th president of the United States, give us a sense of your review or analysis of some of the things he said about his tax reform plan that reform planted we would go for a long time. It would work out.

It would be if it would encourage economic growth, but there's a lot in there that their love like to be filled in for the most part it checks the high-level boxes that need to be checked for plan.

I think a lot of the heavy lifting on the attached form front will be done, but outer preventive but by Paul Ryan W will have a strong push to meld the two plants together to take the jump together and make it fit in with the plan that the Paul Ryan in the house together earlier this year. I think that will be a lot easier done than many people assume all that far apart.

When when they finally have it together so you.the time of working so many different if you were invited to sit at the table, whether it's with Paul Ryan, the President-elect assume to be that the president or he is set economics team. What would you tell them give us a sense of kind of the the to do list so to speak, that would come from Curtis to Bay on the corporate on corporate and I would say look at the rate down load it out straight forward. Big company door for all businesses, corporate, partnership, partnership with you go to mentor things will get a big group so if you lowered the corporate tax rate. Do you have a suggested level that you believe is appropriate even to cover to do it. They got to go to at least 20% are not doing their percent are not even getting getting below the average of the other other developed countries because about 5% on average. That means that you're not getting getting to the average of 20% to 20% will be high over.

You mentioned all those other types of businesses because not every business is formed as a corporation there's a lot of small businesses that actually pay their taxes on their personal income tax reform, I would take it. That means that the tax reform would need to also get into the personal side, not just the corporate side you can do it.

You form without all is a particle landing about because Democrats are not going to be interested in opening up in an individual, not in their interest in bipartisan agreement that is your place to start their capital way to do it. They don't have the whole of the individual. I think that likely landing spot likely compromise to go forward with the least course were talking about federal income tax reform here, but the states, of course, most states at least have a personal income tax here in North Carolina. Curtis I'm sure you're aware that over the past several years. Some are lawmakers and governor have engaged in tax reform that that really is been quite historic with a lowering and flattening of of rates. For example, our corporate rate is going to be 3% in 2017. It was all the way up at 6.9 in 2011 give us your assessment of North Carolina's reform, at least on the corporate side begin to write down about possible more competitive with other that will bring new investment in on it which will create jobs and read rate wages for all. They should be trying to engage in similar reform and health economy helps growth to help you to do the right way can struggling with some right now they pay lower rates too far. At the technical and if you do that difficult budget situation, but for the most part the longer you get the key areas write about why you're seeing benefits from from the Florida state to doing it right the way to North Carolina Senate and filed so much and in recent years, but my sense of the moat are trot or there are others they put on a good direction, but the dark divide. There are lots of governors, Republic pictures and they're the ones who were trying to reform the more bendable or growth, but the coin and you have a bit better going the opposite direction that are more democratic with democratic we would work, but the Democrats, California, New York, to get it going. Other other direction or trying to tax more and more and having difficulty doing that because there's only so much you. Negative economic impact we been talking with Curtis today. He is a tax expert with the heritage foundation Curtis thank you so much for joining us. We appreciate it, but it do it and that's all the time we have for Carolina journal radio this week.

Thank you for listening.

My cohost Mitch. Okay I'm Donna Martinez. Join us again next week for another edition of Carolina radio Carolina journal radio is a program of the job. Learn more about the job donations that support programs like Carolina radio sending email to development job.call 66J 11 166554636 Caroline nation nearly is present on this program nearly formation show or other foundation airline sponsored Carolina radio