Carolina Journal Radio No. 712: N.C. lawmakers change balance of power with governor

From Cherokee to current attack from the largest city to the smallest and from the statehouse into the schoolhouse Carolina Journal radio your weekly news magazine discussing North Carolina's most of public policy events and issues welcome to Carolina Journal radio I Michiko got during the next hour, Donna Martinez and I will explore some major issues affecting our state. A recent report questions.

How will North Carolina's Medicaid program to text waste fraud and abuse you hear highlights from the report along with reaction from state lawmakers. North Carolina is already making preparations for the next round of military base realignment and closure also known as Brack. You learn details. Now that Charlotte is called down from the riots that followed the fatal police shooting of a black man authorities at the local and state level are looking into law enforcement's response to the incident. Partial learn about the latest developments involving access to public records held by state government will a new governor lead to changes.

Those topics are just ahead. But first, Donna Martinez joins us with the Carolina Journal headline governor Roy Cooper has begun his new administration with more limited authority than his predecessor, Pat McCrory, the changes are the result of legislative action taken just a couple of weeks ago by the Gen. assembly and signed into law by Torri in his final days in office to look at what's ahead for the new governor we turn to Becky great. She is the senior vice president for the John Locke foundation that he welcome that. Thanks, Don. First thing is, people may not realize that the power of the governor actually can change. Why is that enough to meet its defined in our Constitution. But along many things the governor wrote the governor's role is determined by the Gen. assembly and I can change things they can take things away that can and thanks and have over the years we've heard accusations in the last week of the special session and what happened is unprecedented's first time in history.

This is all that is untried is happened many times over the course of history where the Gen. assembly has changed the rules and responsibilities, authority of the governor's office and they can do it that our Constitution is written and that's why sometimes we hear folks like yourself say well we have a very strong general assembly and we have a week governor meaning the governor's seat governorship yeah and that's not a reflection on anyone who has served as governor. Of course, but the structure of our government is that more the power lies with the general stomach that's common throughout southern states. Interestingly enough when they were set up the plantation owners the big landowners that controlling government wanted to ensure that they had a louder voice than one person sitting in the governor's office said this is historical that we sang all these things we think it's very interesting. It makes for great talk.

I'm glad folks are hiding a lot of people reading their constitutions again which is great love and light, exactly, but none of this is let's talk about one of the most interesting changes I think and that has to do with the cabinet appointments that Gov. Cooper will make have to have Senate approval of those felt right and our Constitution says that the governor may choose agency heads with the consent and approval of the Gen. assembly. So although we had that has not been formally in place. In past years, it is now and it is written out in our Constitution. So what this means, as we Cooper is determining who is going to be the commerce Sec., Department of administration Department of revenue on all of those offices his cabinet if you will, the head of those will have to have Senate approval. Now, boy. Cooper's got authority to hire a lot of people. So even if the Senate doesn't approve someone who's actually doing the day-to-day work will probably be the second in command that Roy Cooper has full authority to appoint whoever he want so it's kind of hit singles like it's a bigger deal than I think it actually is. Will speaking of all of those positions that he will have the authority to appoint. There are some changes there as well is about 425 spots that Gov. Cooper will be able to appoint whoever he wants. They are political appointees, but that is a reduction from the McCrory years where he had 1500 but our own Michiko Kai points out that 425 is actually more than former Gov. Perdue had wise it does back but I guess the question that we ought to be asking is just how many government appointees does the governor named do I need you, we don't question your state employees and some of these people are that the obviously the people who work in the governor's office on Gov. Cooper is going to want to have his own state budget director. He's going to want to have his own appointment secretary. He's going to want to have his own Chief of Staff limit for obvious reasons he needs to be able to have those people know what the Gen. assembly said was the reason because they changed it when governor Cory came into 1400 appoint days that Gov. McCoury had they said he needed more of those because he had such a big job of fixing broken state government. Now that many of those things have been fixed.

They reduced it back to actually mow more where it was before McCoury took took office, but again this is one of those things that the general simile has full authority to do this and we sang the ebbs and flows.

It's gone both ways. I'm not sure how this is can work. To be honest with you Donna as a regular citizen's regular taxpayer somebody he's dependent on government services. I don't know that you can see that much difference.

It seems to be somewhat of kind of an inside ballgame struggle will you know we'll see how that goes.

But you know again the number of governor appointed state employee positions has been rolled back not as far as it was when Gov. McCoury came into office, but has been rolled back. There's also going to be some interesting interactions over the next month having to do with University of North Carolina campuses in the boards of trustees for those organizations tell us about the authority that Gov. Cooper will have when it comes to members of those boards of trustees help because the generals only pass this bill. He will have no authority at all. They have taken that away from him side the and this is not the board of governors. This is the Board of Trustees and Angela different.

Yes, so this is on East Carolina University on Pembroke University on UNC Asheville in all of the UNC member universities.

The boards of trustees. But those colleges will no longer be appointed by the governor is also another change as part of this house bill 17 as it was known, had to do with the changes in the relationship and authority of the state Board of Education and the department of public instruction. This question of the role of the superintendent of public instruction whose a statewide elected official and the state board of education that is appointed by the governor has always been in conflict. There's a lot of confusion about who does what, who works for who who is the CEO of our public school system. If you will have been lawsuits that have been filed in and litigated through the years and so again this is not really anything new. It's just further clarification of exactly what does that role as the superintendent of public instruction. What is the authority, what are they do what can they do and how does that work with state Board of Education who makes the policy exactly who makes the pulsing. I think the thing that's important to those of us who are taxpayers and citizens of North Carolina is how we get the best education system out of this.

So I think those are the questions that they're going to be working through and hopefully what will have is the continuation of these real reforms. We had an education that have greatly improved the quality of education. The opportunities are available to our schoolchildren across the state. Lots more choice over the past five years. Yes, we also had some changes and several state agencies. There's been some consolidation that has taken place them after the Gen. assembly met just before Christmas time and so now Gov. Cooper will have some different agencies to deal with this has to do with the state board of elections and ethics enforcement yet and it's it, Donna guzzled further and that even it's also the lobbying division that is currently under the Secretary of State and also the campaign, finding it so if you think about these things. Ethics elections lobbying and how much money is going into air campaigns and in lobbying. Of course this is all going to be under one state agency. I think this is a great idea. Sounds like it's all related idiots all related and also what they're trying to do is move it sort of in its own separate entity away as much as they can away from the political influence of those things I this is one of the best things that came out of the short session met in December that we also have some changes that will be reflected in how the North Carolina Court of Appeals hears cases and the number of cases that might be going through that body and the number of cases that might end up in the highest court, the US Supreme Court yet and what they did in this legislation is they put another step in that process. The way that it worked before this law passed was as a case was litigated through our courts.

It went before a three-judge panel at the Court of Appeals, and if there was an appeal from that decision.

It then went on to the state Supreme Court. What we have now is another step in the air where the next step after a three-judge panel of the Court of Appeals, it will go to the entire Court of Appeals. I call that en banc, the NBA and say it's a Latin term that loggers know what I make up for us regular folks. It means that it goes from a three-judge panel to the entire Court of Appeals and then will go to the North Carolina Supreme Court so lots of changes underway for new Gov. Roy Cooper great thank you thank you say with as much North Carolina journal radio to come in just a moment North Carolina lawmakers head back to Raleigh. There's a new governor in town working together or working against each other will make big decisions decisions that affect you, your wallet, your home, your business, your kids education to keep up with those big decisions day by day. Even minute by minute look to Carolina journal, a full team of reporters and analysts there watching the action in the state capital. The reporting minute by minute developments for you Carolina journal. It's available each month as a free newspaper and every day with updated stories@carolinajournal.com find us on Facebook to share items from Carolina journal share items from the John Locke foundation. Follow us on Twitter at Carolina journal at John lock in C and at Becky Gray Carolina journal it your go to source for news about state government and how government affects your life. Visit Carolina journal.com today will go back to Carolina journal radio I Michiko guide.

Medicaid is a multibillion-dollar program in North Carolina.

Those who run it should be watching for waste fraud and abuse right recent report from the Gen. assembly's program evaluation division suggests the results don't look very good evaluator, Chuck Heffron summarizes key findings during the three year period ending June 30, 2015, the number of fraud referrals by the program integrity section declined by 84% program integrity section expenditures for contract including claim payment oversight services exceed associated savings the state funding requirements by $3.2 million in fiscal year 1415 Medicaid oversight of claim payment processing is not providing effective deterrence against fraud and may adversely impact ex post services. The oversight of recipient eligibility determinations performed by the counties is not effective in the results of oversight activities performed by the program integrity section are not being used to improve Medicaid program operations, so Heffron and his team have four recommendations for state lawmakers item number one. The Gen. assembly shall require the North Carolina Medicaid program to develop and implement policies and procedures ensuring available resources or cost-effectively use to identify and prevent fraud, waste and abuse to help ensure that the program sick integrity section cost-effectively uses state funds. The Gen. assembly should require the Medicaid program to develop and implement policies and procedures to ensure use of a uniform methodology to identify and measure the severity of Medicaid eligibility determination and claim payment errors to ensure the cost-effective use of all available claimant eligibility review information. The Gen. assembly should also droop direct that the methodology be made available and used by other state entities performing Medicaid oversight activities when feasible. In addition, the Gen. assembly should require that counties are provided with incentives to ensure the accuracy of Medicaid eligibility determination item number two involves groups outside the Medicaid program. The Gen. assembly should direct the North Carolina Medicaid program to work with its partners to identify alternatives to increase recruitments of identify claim overpayments and to more effectively prosecute fraudulent activity. Specifically to help ensure the cost-effective use of state funds.

The Gen. assembly should require the North Carolina Medicaid program, in partnership with the office of administrative hearings in the states Medicaid investigations division to identify alternatives to increase the amounts recouped from identified overpayments and the number of fraud referrals accepted for further investigation and prosecution program evaluator Chuck Heffron also recommends better oversight in the Medicaid program. The Gen. assembly should require the Medicaid program to develop policies and procedures to ensure oversight activities cost-effectively address identified noncompliance to help ensure actions of post upon Medicaid service providers are appropriate given the potential noncompliance. The Gen. assembly should require the Medicaid program to develop and incorporate a progressive corrective action process for provider selected for enhanced oversight at a minimum, the process should ensure workloads are targeted specific and prioritized. To realize an adequate return on investment of available resources. The fourth recommendation involves a paper trail, the Gen. assembly should require the program integrity section produce an annual performance report and work plan, which documents results and provides a plan to reduce fraud, waste and abuse. The annual report should document the achievement of associative performance are performance targets for each measure. The Gen. assembly should also require the program integrity section to produce an annual work plan, identifying the most cost-effective allocation of available resources. The composition of planned oversight activities should be established from the results of an annual risk assessment at a minimum the risk assessment should identify specific Medicaid participant and medical service categories and for each category include consideration of established risk factors. Dave Richard directs North Carolina's Medicaid program.

He responded to Heffron's report a bit of all the multiple of these evaluations and sub in the state we've always found that the process itself or and although you never happy when people criticize you and what you doing inside your agency. We believe that a move forward our objection. If you look through the most of the things inside of that letter is really about the process.

The findings that came from that process we think or somewhat misleading. We believe though that the outcomes and recommendations for changes are things that we are on the same page with thought we might have a little difference in wordsmithing we might change the way we describe those but they're all good recommendations and we believe that the we can work with the Gen. assembly to move forward but we responded though such a length of time because we think it's important for the folks that work and saw the Medicaid agency for the public to know that things are happening with on the Medicaid agency are continually attempting to improve the work we do. We take fraud, waste and abuse very seriously Republican state representative Craig Horne reacted to the reports and to the Medicaid program's official response.

Undoubtedly, Mr. Richard were all desirous of the same outcome efficiency, economy and excellent service and the recommendations from PED are those that are met to assist in accomplishing those goals. Sen. Ralph pies offered some historical perspective along with thoughts about future changes in Medicaid issues in the program integrity unit.

DHHS is nothing new to the Gen. assembly was two years ago we actually required the department to bid out the entire program integrity unit private entities.

I think they fumbled around for a few months, but an unworkable RFP and said nobody met the qualifications so we don't have to do it the coming year and so we still have a program integrity unit outside counter to the will of the Gen. assembly that is centered at the department of Health and Human Services circuit with you, but I do think some of things to look at with the Medicaid reform 30 months from our movie with the results of the election 20 months from now is moreover looking at if it granted we have a program system that now means program integrity be responsible for determining did we pay the PM VM member per month payment for the recipient, and this follow-up for services and all that will go to the prepaid health plans with their MCO's are the original providers. That's all changing the we've long had a sense that we don't do that well. A monitor that whale and the insurance companies in the limited management annuities will be able to handle those issues much better than we can his estate so in drafting a situation with these payments think we also have to look at work talking to 19 month timeline where the whole system changes again so we don't address it, but I think we very much have to keep that in mind, you been listening to debate about improving detection of fraud, waste and abuse in North Carolina's Medicaid program will return with more Carolina journal radio in a moment at the John Locke foundation where leading the effort to clean up the mess left behind by big government liberals for decades. The powerful left in our state had piled on rule after rule, regulation after regulation never really caring about the people whose lives are caught in the nightmare of complying. In other words, you their handiwork had made it tougher to get a job even increase the legal risk of operating a business.

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You'll also support freedom. Don't forget log on to smile.amazon.com today by something nice and help defend freedom. Support the John Locke foundation of Qu�bec, Carolina journal radio amateur coca North Carolina is looking ahead to the next military base closing process. It's called Brack and state military affairs Sec. Cornell Wilson offered lawmakers a recent update the Air Force and Army of the most desirous is correct because her reducing her troops going on for 562 four 50,000 soldiers went for his food was about 182 to 1 of those morbid open heaven and Air Force is an increase the number not much, but the budget demands by reducing personal cost so we've done that very aggressively and when you are trying to also fight a war the same time management or if it than anything else is the tear down so I think the hearts there was some help in the future. We have numerous as the one on board over think that I was going to be some two by ships of the ground was there with the dealers alike in his address was going to happen in future think we got good facing also to produce solid writeups not going anywhere just be a reduction in numbers, so 444 way already with the airlift Wing of the gems are mostly pretty stable jobs in one airport, one runway rather to be concerned for the government to support 600 system to helping them a little bit and then also be a true point with the new joint notice help them as well so received from some members draw down more unless you how much, but I think you're going to produce it. As far as base study Bible. When might we see the next Brack repeatedly stated that they will have some sort of a black or S4 Brack eventually that is not happening has been put into the effectiveness is still left in the base themselves in excess capacity bases and states) allows you a valuable analysis of the slaves in our state. Here is what Vera facing find ways to increase motivation of those bases. What kinds of things is North Carolina considering try to minimize the impact of development in those eras. On the basis you can't train like you want to know more} someplace else would only lose a bases in the aircraft and of the various when receiving a fly over the rights low level flight route routes on a debugging range support craft and be able to fight and win our wars state government has devoted money to Brack preparations. Wilson's department is seeking more after 1.6 million-dollar grant to study the business. Interrupt around communities affected by the drawdown in our BOD dollars and this allows people to help those companies. We will redirect their efforts toward something something sales throughout the future.

Cornell Wilson, North Carolina secretary of military and Veterans Affairs he's discussing preparations for the next military base closing process will return with more Carolina journal radio in a moment. If you love freedom we got great news to share with you now. You can find the latest news, views, and research from conservative groups all across the state. All in one place North Carolina conservative.com one-stop shopping for North Carolina St. movement had North Carolina conservative.com. You'll find links to John Locke foundation blogs on the days news Carolina journal.com reporting and quick takes Carolina radio interviews TV interviews featuring CJ reporters and Locke foundation analyst plus opinion pieces and reports on higher education. All of that from the Pope Center for higher education policy commentary and polling data from the Cintas Institute and news and views from the North Carolina family policy Council. That's right, all of that, all in one place North Carolina conservative.com that's North Carolina spelled out conservative.com North Carolina conservative.com.

Log on today will Qu�bec Carolina journal radio amateur coca Charlotte made national headlines for all the wrong reasons.

When a fatal shooting involving a police officer led to riots in the streets. Now that the city is cool down city and state officials are assessing law enforcement response to the event. Charlotte Mecklenburg Deputy police chief Jeff Estes recently testified before state legislative committee focuses on emergency management. Estes discussed what happened on the night of the first protest following the shooting. We believe that we have that situation contained and then came the power of social media. If you have a grasp of how you are in our world is time that we recognize that one singular Facebook law blog post started perpetuated phone: some of the things that we experience the tactics of the demonstrators/protesters change from this event ones we've seen in the past in the past. The police were allowed to only determine this engagement. So if we engaged a riotous crowd. We could only in the past to determine when we could disengage the loudest tactical advantages. In this case the crowd continue to push all through both nights of the services they would not allow disengagement so we had to tactically date which in our world requires more maneuverability across the movement is one thing for us to police a crowd of 300 or 500 its much different to try to police 50 groups of 10 spread out all the big geographical area. That's what we experienced here. It effectively divides the resources that you're trying to. The protest started on a Tuesday. They turned violent. Estes picks up the story.

Tuesday night was the first signs on Wednesday night, giving an idea of scale. We stood up without going into specific numbers. Multiple hundreds of officers in in response, and even then, on Wednesday because assembly formation.

We still have property damage but fortunately a another homicide that took place within the areas protest so by Thursday. Once the request resources from state law was made talking stand here before you Coughlin say so. There was no cleaner way could have been done. Resources were allocated poorly and given without question it was in my view, fairly seamless of 25 years of being in this business. This response is one of the benchmarks of the best that I've seen the situation change on the third night of protest. We were able to come combat some of the tactics they were using this Tom is up on interstates to interrupt interstate commerce were able to hold our critical infrastructure in place and then allow for more mobility to be able to take care of the processes as it went through as a result, in many other places that you see around the country protest lasted weeks here tonight's all of true civil disturbance.

We take that as a mark of things we did right. We wish none of it had taken place with a ferocity we count that as a is a mark of success. Charlotte Mecklenburg Deputy police chief Jeff Estes testifying in front of the state legislative committee lawmakers had questions about the Charlotte riots Sen. Norm Sanderson wanted to know about punishment connected to rioting and looting the national spotlight you handled it.

Understanding maybe it will. I guess the biggest concern that any law enforcement agency has put in that predicament is what happens or what you do when a protest more soon to arrive and which is something that you have no control over. You just have to respond to my question I guess is you know what really disturbs me more about a ride is the looting and the damage that takes place during that under the cover of a protest department should generally give any follow-up after after things have calmed down just to me that the only way I see to prevent that are to put some kind of prevention and places to go after these folks who participate in that.

And really, Michael will make an example of that. You can protest, but when you cross over that line, then the law is really going to let you absolutely can't speak for other departments, I can say for our department was our mandate that the video ends that we had looting or assaults we follow phone we made 34 your rest in the weeks following every piece of year we got this give an example where a gentleman who always dental surveillance video was looting turned up little while later, I think on the national media with the same shirt on with his name in the bottom so were follow-ups on more like the rest.

John Faircloth wondered whether law enforcement agencies might be able to make better use of an existing state law for long time of preaching in the room were nobody was listening and saying that we don't make in the use of our conspiracy laws is one of the most powerful walls we have. She'll remember you and it is impossible for two or more people to commit a crime without having talked about it and plan something so in every case, virtually whether it's involving five wrongdoers over this and involving 5000. Their conspiracies involved and power in the conspiracy law is the those who join into the action later are also guilty of the conspiracy. Even if they weren't in the planning, so I think it's incumbent upon us to try to help you in law enforcement community and the district attorneys and others involved reaching and finding some of these people who not those who are trying to protest the everybody has a right to protest what it is when the when the original plan goes further than just protest and there are there are plans made along the way to do some damage or hurt. Some people are, whatever the case may be those of the kinds of things to you the message out that were not going to tolerate Bob bringing some people justice were not facing the same problems over the state Sen. Ronald Reagan wants to see that lessons Charlotte police officers learned to be shared with communities across North Carolina is only until we can gather until it helps prevent mordant more of the disaster to continue and so forth.

With all that you learn from this experience, I would think the triangle folk could benefit from it.

The Wellington Sanford done in my area could benefit from this in an effort being made to bring this together. Maybe you guys be involved so that everyone can share the lessons and everybody can learn and make everything a little bit better. The answer according to the Charlotte Mecklenburg Deputy police chief is yes you, but listening to a legislative discussion of lessons learned from the recent Charlotte riots will return with more Carolina journal rate at the John Locke foundation where leading the effort to clean up the mess left behind by big government liberals for decades. The powerful left in our state had piled on rule after rule, regulation after regulation never really caring about the people whose lives are caught in the nightmare of complying. In other words, you their handiwork had made it tougher to get a job even increase the legal risk of operating a business. We say enough is enough that it's just not fair to you. That's why reform minded lawmakers have turned to the Locke foundation for answers and acted to lighten your burden were proud that our intellectual firepower has improved lives. You can count on the John Locke foundation to watch out for your interests. The special interests. We would be honored to have your help in this fight. John Lott.org and make a tax-deductible donation. Right now the John Locke foundation where fighting for you where fighting for freedom, Carolina journal radio Martinez three-judge panel of the North Carolina Court of Appeals has dismissed an appeal from a former governor Pam or Cory's administration. It was a legal dispute with outlets into left of center, nonprofit groups, the dispute was over access to public records and the panel's ruling specifically rejected McCoury's argument that appellate judges could consider supporting the then governor on the basis of quote sovereign immunity.

What does that mean and now with the new governor in office Roy Cooper. What should the media and public expect when it comes to government transparency. Rick Henderson is editor-in-chief of Carolina journal longtime veteran journalist himself, and he joins us now. Welcome back to the show. Thank you.the McCoury administration had argued sovereign immunity sounds very official. What is it, well it's it's a provision in the law that applies to most acts by public officials and their duties as public officials they can't be sued as individuals.

For instance, if the Gen. assembly passes a law banning firearms in a certain area than the people who signed that law. If that if the laws challenged in court on second immigrants people in the law who signed the law can also be challenges individuals because they were acting as in their capacity as public officials, otherwise you could ever pass any law that upset anybody because everybody would be in court all the time so this is a provision in the U.S. Constitution that also extends the state constitution which basically says people who are public officials are allowed to do their jobs and homes what they're doing when they're doing their jobs isn't breaking other laws that would be illegal outside the public sphere that they can't be taken to court. What argument have to do with the issue of public records had apparently been requested from the requirements for part of part of the lawsuit was filed. Part of it was actually a test to see how transparent the McCoury ministration was going to be because there had been complaints by a number of public organizations, nonprofit groups and media organizations including Carolina journal about delays in receiving public records from various targets of 40 administration over the years and what part of this was testing okay what happened with some of these groups involved records requests to a number of cabinet level departments and then to the governor's office itself and many of the agencies complied to these with these requests in a matter of days if not weeks, but the governor's office itself waited months if not longer to comply with these requests. I believe at one point the McCoury administration had argued that they were just overwhelmed with requests and that to many of them were just frivolous requests for records that's correct, and the argument that William another urbanization is made was a lush part less cost of doing business.

If you're in business serving the public than your business should be public and should be available to the public and you shouldn't necessarily have to have a large printing press or a large number of donors or anything like that to get access to the records are open to everybody. Anybody in the state or basically anyone at all to have access to these records should have access to them quickly, because the law says they should be provided as quickly as possible.

Now we have a new governor Roy Cooper entering his first days in office. As our governor.

What is his history of transparency has changed over the years he served in the general assembly and he was one of the major advocates of openness and transparency in government.

He was involved in helping to develop a circular that still distributed by the press Association on open government alone, public records and open meetings, state, and he also has received a number of awards from different media groups for his transparency record transparency when he was in the general assembly.

Then, he was elected Atty. Gen. in 2000 and serve there for 16 years and has been pretty much of every black hole in it comes to getting information from him. It's really really tough for them to do anything other than if you make a request for something that he didn't want to talk about puts if you want to promote some undistributed working on that. He was very accessible. But if you're asking information.

Typically, the response from his from his spokespeople would be we're considering this is the matter possibly litigation and we can't comment at this time we actually have a media organization sometime in the last several months report on a public records request that they made to the Cooper office as Atty. Gen. and they found quite little like they felt that he had somewhere in the teens number of emails that he actually sent under official accounts during his 16 years as Atty. Gen.'s that's really not a lot of activity even if you consider that the emails only been used frequently throughout the past decade, so it's really really small amount of information and so it's so he has hit his. He had one role is not in the legislature is a completely different role.

Executive branch is governor. So what would that portend then for access to finding out about communications over potential of policy disagreements or anything going on within the design.

So far, that's for sure. In fact, when the Gen. assembly was meeting special session back in December and making several moves that limited the governor's power governor elect called a very hasty news conference at almost no notice whatsoever and we attempted to cover it.

Our managing editor John Trump went to the three office of the Justice Department try to get in and was excluded because while he was really given reasons you said you can't go. It was interesting because Carol and role sickly old media organizations attempt to get credentialing get permission from the executive branch from the legislative branch judicial branch to cover events and two days before this press conference call. I actually had made a formal request through the Atty. Gen.'s public information office be credentialed and to get on all the media mailing list for events and things like that so it was not as if he was walking up there, out of the blue and nobody knew that he might be coming to this actually made a formal request for which I got no response.

And after John was turned away. I sent a rather testy response saying what's going on here.

This is outrageous and again have heard nothing in this is now going on weeks you and I are talking, you have communicated with his office twice, yet still have had no response whatsoever might be wondering exactly what is public record. What what do we as citizens have the right to see pretty much any communications that takes place under the color of activity that a public official engages so for instance if a public official sends an email to someone on a public website for us as a Republic email server so that happens that's a public record if a person is involved in a meeting with the public official and there is the official notes taken those notes are public record any correspondence on paper that's made is public record. Anything is done is as far as finances concern public money is a public record and even there is the question because this happened during the easily ministration where he was using a private email account to conduct public public business.

If you're using a private email account using it to actually set policy or converse with other officials, then it should be considered a public record. Also, it only has to have essentially one public person involved. So if there are no such there is no such thing as private one-way conversations with public officials with her doing official business of course Carolina Journal is a reputable credible news organization, but let's say that time I was a private citizen want to find out what the governor was talking about a particular issue.

Do I have the authority or the right to request records as an individual yes and they're supposed to be complied. Request especially complied with quickly and is also supposed to be at a nominal cost to you. The way that the interpretations been in the past is basically what it would cost to get it photocopied at your local copy center should be as much as they would charge you for records I can charge you for staff time they get charge things like that is that they have to turn over as quickly as possible fair to say that you're going be pursuing the Cooper administration to make sure the Carolina Journal is credentialed and allowed into these news conferences and activities with the best we can to keep on top of this all right course will have you back to talk about the new governor's administration as we go through a more discussion about policy in the future of North Carolina. Thank you Hugh Rick is the editor-in-chief Carolina Journal Carolina Journal.com program this week. Thank you for listening on behalf of Mitch. Okay I'm Donna Martinez. Join us again next week. More Carolina Journal radio Carolina Journal radio is a program of the John Locke to learn more about John donations support programs like Carolina Journal radio sending email to John Locke call 1866166554636 Carolina airline is nearly done. Many airline sponsors