Carolina Journal Radio No. 810: Trump, Obama both claim credit for economic gains

From chair to current attack from the largest city to the smallest and from the statehouse into the schoolhouse Carolina Journal radio your weekly news magazine discussing North Carolina's most public policy events and issues welcome to Carolina Journal radio why Mitch Coke during the next hour, Donna Martin, is that I will explore some major issues affecting our state. This week's edition of Carolina Journal radio was brought to you by Blue Cross and Blue Shield of North Carolina working every day to transform the health system for North Carolinians. More information available at today. We.com Winston-Salem surgeon is working with the Institute for Justice to challenge a state law. It blocks him from buying medical equipment that would lead to lower cost and more convenience for his patients. The 2018. Elections could help lead to a renewed push for election redistricting reform in North Carolina to learn why higher education faces a number of challenges you hear from an expert who focuses on to the lack of viewpoint diversity and the overall decline in academic quality will learn about Association health plans and their possible role in healthcare reform. Those topics are just ahead. First, Donna Martinez joins us with the Carolina Journal headline. Former president Barack Obama has said that he believes today's growing US economy can be traced to policies implemented by his administration. Conversely, Pres. Donald Trump says that the low unemployment rate and job growth is due to his actions. So, which president is correct John Locke foundation Senior economist Roy Coronado joins us to assess the economics behind both of those claims. Why welcome back to the show. Glad to be back first. Give us your general sense as an economist of what's happening in the country today.

Well I I think things are good. I mean obviously we hear all this good news 3.7% unemployment rate, which is tremendous. Most recently, 4.2% of GDP growth rate. Those things are really good and then noxious unemployment low for for you know what white rich guys but for the masses that all demographics are our more fully employed wage rates are going up for the first time in many years so I you I think the economy looks looks very good and I think the growth is real in the past. I'm not sure I would always have said that by the most is gross is not freshly since the Fed is actually in the opposite direction by raising rates so looks good.

Will former Pres. Obama says it's because of the policies that his administration implemented, particularly after the great recession. 070 right right what you think that well he would have to prove that I mean he put in place policies that would do the opposite right so you if you're going to put in place to set a number of policies right I mean is he his so-called stimulus package, which was his major centerpiece economics package for the whole eight years did nothing. In fact, it made things worse right. He said in six months employer it was going to down to below 8%, well the fact is, he never got to below 8% for two more years and it had nothing to do with the stimulus packages that is mainly because he stopped doing harm the stimulus package.

Basically graded more debt transferred a lot of wealth around, but didn't do anything to to expand the economy then he went ahead and raise taxes in 2013 on highest income earners right you raise top marginal tax rates you raise capital gains rates. These are not things at any economist, regardless of your stripe is going to say is a good idea to do when unemployment rates are over 7% which they were in. In 2013. So if he's going to say that it's his policies that are just now taking hold.

You have to point to which ones and what how they are somehow consistent with advancing economic growth. A meaner owner of the things I could go into the affordable care act, which raise costs for business. I made it. We need down the line regulate a lot of regulations. The Paris client record that was a huge wet blanket sitting on top of the economy businesses were faced with massive costs of complying with that if it ever did go in place or were you going to do. Are you going to invest in that environment know you going to sit back and hold onto your money. So Mr. Obama believes that it's just taken a long time for the actions you just arrived to take hold and he believes that's why there's economic growth right, but then a president to tromp reactors and dad and said oh no that's not the case. What's happening is because of the policies that his administration has enacted so assess Mr. Trump's argument. Well, first quality, just say that that that the Democrats and trump supporters that will this recession of 2000. It was so deep it was so deep that I just took a long time to climb out of that something else has nothing to do grounded in economic reality is no economic theory to says the deeper the recession, the harder look more slowly.

The economy is going to grow fact.

Historically, the just has not been the case, you would expect actually very fast growth coming out of a very deep recession. If you create the right economic environment that said I'm I think Trump is right in this case by large he did what actually I wrote a piece in 2009, suggesting that if they want to this recession. What they need to do is is lowered, the marginal tax rates cut corporate tax rates cut capital gains rates do not put in place any CO2 regulations. I which is just a massive tax and and so I set all the stuff that you want to get out. You want fast growth. So on that is, you need to do from Kemeny pretty much did all that writing was a read my piece. He pretty much did all that he lowered the lower tax rates and and taxes. Overall, he dramatically cut the corporate rate and I didn't do anything to capital gains rate and not by think because he didn't want to but because I think really couldn't in that setting in, and some this tax cup 2.0 or whatever, has some adjustments for capital gains in that he also pulled out of the climate accord which I'm again I cannot emphasize how how important that is because those are major major regulations where amount to a huge tax may be a good may be a carbon dioxide tax or something like that. All that was hanging over the heads of American businesses and sending them a strong signal. It's very likely not to be a a profitable situation in the coming years and that and so he did all that and of course what it wasn't because so much of of the policies he one place was because the pulsing cigarette offer height. The higher tax policies of of of of of Obama, the regulations of Obama. If you get rid of these policies and allow entrepreneurs to respond to consumer demands. This is what's going to happen. In fact, in terms of regulation cutting he's been on a tear. His administration has just been really digging through a lot of rules and regulations, perhaps right because he has a business background and understands what happens I think so. I think there's you know he's a cup with the auto industry. He's getting rid of the these really stringent corporate average fuel economy standards again.

He got rid of the climate accord. He said he said he's not pursuing the climber regulations that the Obama the Obama EPA were pursuant was pursuing a streamlined lots what he loves tariffs.

He does and that's I think that something is hanging over one may think this hanging over stock market right now. I mean, we see stocks really you think wow not doing bad but that there is a roller coaster. They are well off of their highs of over 26,000 that the Dow and I think a lot of that has to do with the fact that he is out there threatening major tariffs on Chinese goods.

These this nonsense I think about the French wine studies come up with lately and he was tweeting about that.

Yeah, I think is just bad policy and tariffs never help the economy we been talking with Dr. Roy Coronado. He is senior economist for the John Locke foundation here this really interesting piece to be seen with this much more Carolina journal radio to come in just a moment.

This week's edition of Carolina Journal radio was brought to you by Blue Cross and Blue Shield of North Carolina working every day to transform the health system from North Carolinians. More information available at today. We.com voters have spoken in North Carolina.

How can you make sense of what they said about the legislature Congress, the courts, the Constitution Carolina Journal has you covered in print each month. Online every day. Carolina journal is your source for up-to-the-minute information about North Carolina state government policies and their impact on you Carolina Journal offers in-depth analysis of the election's aftermath, then looks ahead to 2019.

How will elections affect your family, your wallet, your schools, your business find out in the free Carolina Journal newspaper online@carolinajournal.com Carolina Journal your number one source for government news that affects you visit Carolina journal.com today. Welcome back to Carolina Journal radio I Muskoka North Carolina's certificate of need. Law was supposed to help control healthcare costs by blocking unnecessary construction of new healthcare facilities with purchase of unneeded medical equipment recent lawsuit challenges the con law are joined by the man who filed the suit. Dr. Gendreau Singh is a surgeon based in Winston-Salem, joining Dr. Singh's Josh Windham Institute for Justice attorney who's working with. Welcome to both of you think you so first of all to talk about the specifics of your case. But first, of that attorney Josh tells what is this column Lawler certificate of the law, do that's blocking your client so for people who are familiar certificate of need is effectively a government permission slip to provide healthcare services. Now healthcare services are regulated under North Carolina's common law, but many are putting hospitals. Hospital beds inventory surgery centers and things like MRI scanners, North Carolina.

You can't purchase an MRI scanner. If your physician unless the state is predetermined. A need for that scanner in your planning area North Carolina by regulates MRI scanners by County so Dr. Singh is in Forsyth County is actually not allowed to purchase an MRI scanner because the 2018.

State medical facilities plan didn't project a need for new scanner this year. Dr. Singh you wanted to get an MRI scanner tell us why and why this law is blocking you from serving your patience while been practicing as a surgeon for quite some time and my specialties to deliver pancreatic G.I. cancer. Besides doing all the general surgery, so my patient do need quite a few of scans and Linda come back and tells me that how much it cost some time more than what they make in a month. It is heartbreaking.

Like when the sit in my office and crying tongue like you know I just went to the emergency room couple weeks ago and I got $10,000 bill. I make $2000 a month you would like get the money from so that, like in a push me in the direction of providing affordable care to start open my own imaging center and MRIs of big equipment to be part of imaging fear either displaying chest body your bones. They know deducting tumor the size CT scan. It is very important part of diagnosis and management, and that was my reason to start imaging center and tried to get MRR so if you got the MRI scanner. Basically, your patience wouldn't have to go elsewhere, they could go to you is already providing the treatment get the MRI scan and from from what I understand what what's what you're suggesting at a much lower cost right so our cost for the patient who do not have insurance is just a single flat fee almost everywhere else you would pay in imaging feet plus a reading fee. We have combined all those in like a nonconscious MRI at our centers only $500 as someplace it can cost up to three to $5000 and income lies based only on County but we have patient like lost with you. Have patient who drove Don from Tennessee for a half-hour to get a CT scan done so we have patient know from Tennessee from Charlotte from Raleigh and from Virginia they're driving to 2 1/2 hour so doesn't make sense was restricted MRI or call Ludwig Conti, Mrs. Ben Veeck and for services to people driving over hundred miles to your doctor. You want to provide the services for your patients. What's a pivot back to Josh Windham as your attorney. What is the state's argument against Dr. Singh being able to do what he wants to do and get this MRI scan. Well, we haven't gotten a formal argument back at Prof. of longtime historical justification for con laws that are necessary to control healthcare prices.

That is has never been true ever since, as a reenactment, was originally starting and enacted in the 60s start taking off in the 70s after significant lobbying efforts by the American Hospital Association and the rationale whole time was up there and keep costs low for patients.

The exact opposite has occurred as the federal government has repeatedly recognized the fact that con laws actually prevent new entrants into markets keeps prices high by preventing competition on an otherwise lower the prices so your con laws have not help work to control prices and enacted as mature. North Carolina has been true across country that is the voice of Josh Windham.

He is an attorney with the Institute for Justice are also hearing from Dr. Gendreau Singh, who is a surgeon based in Winston-Salem and has his own imaging center where he would like to have this MRI scanner Dr. Singh your Dr. you're not a lawyer so what made you say this is something that I I feel so strongly about that. I'm willing to go to court, why, why is this so important to you while for the kids and for years, you know, we have tried to set healthcare professional trooper wired care to the patients and to the politics, the hospital they have not worked for the public and the community. I have tried to provide the charitable services affordable services as much as I can and the common law, and the big corporation gets in the way the easiest thing for me to Institute of going back to the state and asking the repeated just was not gonna happen because they are backed by lichen on Belinda hospital lobby all the stuff and Institute for Justice. They were kind enough, they understood what I was trying to do and no time to get rich, but trying to prewired the affordable care to the community space to the poor people in Forsyth County among the poorest county and adjacent areas and there they were able to step up and just help what this lawsuit is one haven't been harming these days people are increasingly skeptical of health system right people think that hospitals are not out there for them. The insurance Commissioner are there to scam them for a 600 furniture companies, or other scan them. They think doctors are out there to scam them and nobody trusts anybody in healthcare industry and the last thing government should be doing is preventing a doctor like Dr. Singh who wants to actually help patients from get scans they can afford a transparent prices from doing exactly that is a lesson government should be doing.

If you Dr. Singh and you. Josh is the attorney win the suit. What happens does this con restriction go away if you win yes of lawsuit is specifically targeting North Carolina's MRI con requirement. If we win the suit.

The whatever court issues a final ruling will strike down the law is unconstitutional and issue an injunction against enforcement of the law against Dr. Singh and so the next step would then be Dr. Singh could get the MRI scanner and then what would happen while my next school route to get my own MRR and to prewired continue to provide affordable services which I have been doing and if I have one a forenoon if you can make more money. I may be able to bring the prices for the town. You two have both been involved in raising awareness about this issue as people have learned about the story and the particulars are you receiving the light bulbs go off of people say wait a minute, this doesn't make sense work with. Why do we have this law that stopping you from getting this MRI machine just the question was, what can you get what not. I said we can get ultrasound medical x-ray and CT scan and her question was, why not MRI. Just another piece of equipment. I said that's what you don't understand so because it is not harming patient is no radiation.

We are not doing anything which can heart patient so does not make sense to give permission to all of the equipment, but not MRI scanner so when what I go and talk to anyone anywhere.

This question comes up and it doesn't make sense like and what and what is being controlled about you Josh is you're talking to people. People say wait a minute, what is this line placing the most common response I've gotten so far is is one of two responses. One is either they don't believe me. I explain this long essay, there's no way this is really so it is actually a healthcare works in North Carolina. How if I never heard about this and I agree the eye I've next heard about con laws and toys are looking at this issue number of years ago and I was blown away to find these laws on the books you response I've gotten is North Carolina has some some pretty explicit constitutional protections against things like government establishing monopolies. How is/on the books for the people who were moving forward with this suit are Dr. Gendreau Singh from Forsyth County, a surgeon who was hoping to get an MRI scanner and his attorney Josh Windham with the Institute for Justice like so much for joining us today. Thank you very much. Thank you a lot more Carolina journal radio. Did you know you can now advance freedom and free markets just by shopping with Amazon it's true online shopping is now a great way to support the John Locke foundation just shot using the Amazon smile program and designate past the work foundation to receive a portion of your purchase amount that's right you shop and Amazon donates money to us.

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One consequence of the 2018 elections redistricting reform might return to the legislative agenda in North Carolina. That's a prediction from John lock foundation chairman John Hood. This is super close they were. Cory lost to Roy Cooper was 2/10 of a percentage point. The closest gubernatorial election in American history until 2018. But certainly one of the courses in American history very very close. I anticipate North Carolina being close for years to come. One of the implications of that as of already referred to is redistricting questions. I am a strong proponent of redistricting reform.

I believe it when the Democrats were in charge of believing when the Republicans are in charge of the try to be consistent, even if I'm consistently wrong and I do believe, by the way, that there would be a strong push redistricting reform in 2019. I think Republicans will be more amenable to it than they were in the past for two reasons. One, suddenly you're not so sure you will be in charge in 2021 when the map scheduled, but frankly, more importantly, the state Supreme Court is now 5 to 2 Democratic Ct. mean no disrespect to the our latest associate justice. But I'm here to tell you if the Republicans get the sense that has happened in Pennsylvania. There will be a state constitutional case filed and will get up to the Supreme Court and Anita earls will draw the maps that starts to change the political calculation a bit about what to do.

Hood suggests observers should harbored no illusions about the 2018 elections impact on state courts. The appeals court and certainly the Supreme Court has moved to the left.

That means that any policies that you like is a conservative or in danger of being struck down, but there's no real reason is protected they are in danger of being struck down based upon whatever citation. The majority wants to make. This is not just new things you want to do.

These are all things you already dead that you thought were already upheld by the Supreme Court but overturn precedent. I don't believe you should nurse any such fantasies. So in the traditional situation you want to get in federal court. If you're Republican or conservative, which wasn't the case until recently. But now it is very much the case.

It also means that as I said earlier that gerrymandering is a different storyline.

All you have to do again is like a Pennsylvania think through how that might work out the same provisions of the Pennsylvania very general non-specific general provisions in the Pennsylvania Constitution are also in our Constitution will see what happens.

That's John Hood, chairman of the John lock foundation. He argues that 2018 election results including judicial elections could boost interest in redistricting reform for North Carolina returned with more Carolina journal radio commitment to truth and transparency in government. That is the mission of Carolina journal and we are proud to deliver and now proud to tell you the North Carolina press Association has honored to members of our team with awards reporting and writing, that's right, we really do deliver award-winning journalism we shine the light on government spending, reveal the truth about boondoggles and dig deep into programs paid for with your tax money. We keep you in the know in a way other media outlets don't in our reach and influence are growing all of our outlets. We reach more than 1 million N. Carolinians each month so make sure you're one of them are monthly print edition arrives in your mailbox every month.

Our online daily news site Carolina journal.com has fresh stories, opinion pieces, and more. The award-winning Carolina journal team I reporters make government accountable to you. Call 1866 JL FINF0 for your free subscription, welcome back. Carolina journal radio. I mixed coca higher education in North Carolina faces a number of challenges ahead of the states leading higher red watchdog used a recent speech to focus on two of them, Jenna Robinson is president of the James G.

Martin Center for academic renewal. She asked her audience to consider problems linked to a lack of viewpoint diversity on campus and the decline of academic quality chosen as is. I think they really go to the heart of what education is and what it should be. It should be a place where students go and learn how to reason critically analyze and how to be prepared for future no matter where it takes them and I think in order to do that academic quality has to remain high and MSB viewpoint diversity in economy. Robinson started with viewpoint diversity.

I define that as an environment where multiple views are not only permitted but encouraged where faculty and students employ their power of reason to search for the truth and that he used to be the modus operandi of universities to search for the truth. Unfortunately that is not always the case anymore.

Heterodox Academy which is a bipartisan group of faculty who support point diversity has done some really excellent research on this topic and what they have shown is that American universities have leaned last for a long time and that left-leaning tendency that long-standing left-leaning tendency for for a long time wasn't a problem as long as there are some people with different political perspectives in every field and every department we can assume that eventually someone will challenge claims that reflect ideology more than evidence that they also found the beginning around the 1990s as the greatest generation began to retire. Things changed.

The greatest generation contained a fair number. Republicans, even among academicians and when they retire. They were written replaced by the baby boom generation and generation contains somewhat fewer Republicans. Among them is the Academy.

So in the 15 years between 1995 and 2010 will eat what they found is that the Academy went from leaning left to being almost entirely on the left and now conservative professors are found almost exclusively in schools of engineering and other professional schools in most humanities and social science departments only about 5% of professors are conservative.

What about the ideological breakdown within individual campus departments in about 60 in the most most elite universities in the country. The most competitive universities in the country on engineering looks all right for every conservative professor there are 1.6 liberal professors nine specifically for this is a partisanship in Exodus as Democrats or Republicans over every Republican there 1.6 Democrats in an engineering department.

No problem at all. That's pretty balanced political science and for every Republican professor there.

8.2 Democratic professors you move up the list if you get to philosophy for everyone Republican there are 17.5 Democrats in class VI. It's 127 in sociology is 143 and in religion is 1 to 70 at these schools that researcher he did this work found no registered Republicans at all in anthropology and communications departments. Why does the head of the Martin Center for academic renewal spout these statistics is a problem. I think Wingard list of your own political pollen area or in politics or in personal politics and the reason that these are problems because now there are questions that don't get anymore in academic departments or questions are taken seriously important philosophical questions. Questions like are humans a blank slate does human nature exist are all differences between human groups caused by society are all that are there real differences say between men and women. These are questions that are asked or are given very little attention in the Academy anymore because they become unpopular just even to ask those questions and this kind of orthodoxy is very dangerous. He Academy first is that for scholarship everyone in the Academy does their colleagues in their students a disservice by not challenging cherished beliefs that the good people at heterodox Academy say we fail as colleagues and his scholars when we allow unjustified dogmas are simply insufficiently justified claims to go unchallenged is also bad for students because teachers are failing to teach students the most important skill which is how to think if to if teachers and shielded students from strong counter arguments on the issues that they care most about.

Then they set students up for confusion or anger. When a later encounter people to think differently and I think it there and said that in the student protests that we've seen recently. Speaking of students. They also bear the brunt of the second challenge lower academic quality Jenna Robinson of the Martin Center highlights recent survey results found out that only 28% of college graduates today survey could name. James Madison is the father of the Constitution. Almost half couldn't recognize that Senators are elected to six-year terms and house members are elected to two-year terms, and that 10% of college graduates thought that Judge Judy sat on the Supreme Court and the worst part. The worst is that this was a multiple-choice test so the right answers were right in front of people to choose and some of them still chose Judge Judy gets worse. According to the National assessment of adult literacy. Only 29% before your college graduates read at an advanced level I would expect that number to be 100%. What is college for if not to teach students how to deeply read and understand books novels in written material that is so important to interact and engage in an enlightened knowledge-based society. They also found in the literacy rates for adults with associates in advanced degrees. Also write low levels and that over the past 30 years.

They declined despite this lower quality college students are scoring higher grades than ever. A's now represent 43% of grades awarded today, which is up from only 15% of students got A's back in 1960.

In fact, in a is now the most common grade that university students receive an 73% of all grades awarded are either A's and B's. What's the outcome of this decline in academic quality and employer survey recently released by the University of North Carolina system in 2015, suggests that graduates of the state 16 public universities, especially those who are less selective schools are deficient in terms of their written and oral communication, work ethic and work Workplace etiquette and these results mirror national employment surveys I believe are universities can and must do better.

I think we think we owe it to our young people and to ourselves to do better.

That's Jenna Robinson of the Martin Center for academic renewal she's discussing declining academic quality and the lack of viewpoint diversity on college campuses will return with more Carolina journal radio with a moment this week's edition of Carolina journal radio was brought to you by Blue Cross and Blue Shield of North Carolina working every day to transform the health system from North Carolinians.

More information available at today. We.com voters have spoken in North Carolina.

How can you make sense of what they said about the legislature Congress, the courts, the Constitution, Carolina journal has you covered in print each month. Online every day. Carolina journal is your source for up-to-the-minute information about North Carolina state government policies and their impact on you Carolina journal offers in-depth analysis of the election's aftermath, then looks ahead to 2019.

How will elections affect your family, your wallet, your schools, your business find out in the free Carolina journal newspaper online@carolinajournal.com Carolina journal your number one source for government news that affects you visit Carolina journal.com today. Welcome back to Carolina journal radio I'm Donna Martinez asking the North Carolinian about healthcare or health insurance are likely to tell you that they want greater access to care at a lower cost. Recently, the Trump administration announced an effort to provide more access to affordable health insurance to what are called Association health plans. The John Locke foundation's healthcare analyst Jordan Roberts joins us now to explain exactly how these plans work in the role that states like North Carolina will play in determining how employer and trade groups actually set up their plans. Jordan welcome back to the show. Thank you. What is an Association health plan. These Association health plans are group health plans are sponsored by either an employer based group or in association a trade or business association and there set up for the purpose of providing health benefits to their members and to people that have a common business interest with a trade association for now. Based on these new rules arm can be all over the United States. They don't have to have those geographic restrictions anymore so it really opens up access to groups that do business together have a common business interest in what they do and now can be anywhere in the United States.

How does this relate to Obama care and I guess what I'm getting at is in your description does not mean that let's say that I work for Smith production company and they offer health insurance as part of my benefit for working there. Do I have to take my insurance through them or could I just say you know I got a better plan over here from the construction workers of America or health plan sure she could opt out. Answer what it does for businesses. Is it sets up a different way of individuals to band together either individual working owners, small businesses or industry groups and they can band together use their power. The marketing power and bargaining power to negotiate lower rates and really the biggest question in this matter is the question of when groups and individuals can band together to associate and arm under the affordable care act Obama care. These individual groups and himself. Working employers were classified under the law was individuals and so therefore there subject to the restrictions and regulations of the individual and small group market. The large employer market which these two are regulated separately under Obama care large employer market offers a lot more leeway and are not subject to as many of these restrictions under the affordable care act. So under the new rule. These individuals was employing employer owners can get together and be treated the same as large employer groups under the affordable care act to get that same favorable regulatory treatment to provide more flexible health benefits and try cheaper plans and the ones that are being sold right now under the affordable care act is this new idea or is it just kind of a loosening of the regulation right notices the new idea. They've been around for a while. These plans have existed in the past but they've been the regulations have been a lot more strict in the past because it's been examples of fraud in these plans becoming insolvent and so under the affordable care act to really eliminate the risk of this affordable care act would view these individuals in the smaller group plans as individuals that it was there governed by what's called a look through doctrine so they would look through the Association. These individuals as individual buying insurance on the individual market after small employers which are there still subject to a lot more of those Obama care regulation so what this rule really does is open up the fairness of the of how these groups can associate and be treated under the affordable care act.

It sounds like if a person goes this route that they have a lot more leverage and with leverage you have the potential for maybe greater amounts of benefits or a lower cost. Is that what what were really talking about here.

That's right. So if you are allowed to be exempt from some of these regulations that the affordable care act places on individual and small business group plans then you can provide more tailored coverage to the members of these trading industry associations because their interests are a lot more aligned and they can provide more affordable coverage because it's there not subject to these regulations and it's just a better deal for these groups that can't afford the coverage that the affordable care act is providing them in the individual and small business markets during years and I've never understood about the affordable care act and that is that there's so many requirements and it. The first topic, the cost shoots up because any insurance plan that qualifies under the affordable care act has to do certain things, but it just makes common sense to me. I wonder what you think that everybody's life is different, right everybody's at a different point in their life they prioritize things differently that we should be moving towards what you're describing that more tailored opportunity right Association health plans.

They really give individuals and businesses the freedom to associate with the people that they do business with every day.

The people in their community because before they were restricted. These plans are restricted to either a bona fide business interest, which was very narrowly interpreted or a metropolitan area that had to be in the same state really so now when you when the Trump administration opens up these rules, the business interest is more broadly interpreted so you can associate with all your clients all your member employers take the Chamber of Commerce, for example, all those people that are members of the Chamber of Commerce could potentially be in this health benefit plans are really opens up like you said a more decentralized localized approach to providing health benefits for Association group members that have a common interest together and have been hurt by the affordable care act for so long. I think those of us who are used to more traditional health insurance through an employer, for example, were used to knowing that okay it's our employer's plan and is administered by a certain insurance agency and and when you choose to opt in.

That's it.

But what you're describing sounds to me almost like it's possible, I would be in a plan with somebody from the state of California. That's right.

And so if you could band together and create a business plan.

I'm sorry a health insurance benefit plan to provide only the benefits that your certain trader industry Association group needs than you have more personalized health insurance and more affordable coverage for what people need and that's really what these plans are providing relief or from Obama care Jordan tell me about the role of the state Senate. Now that the Trump administration has loosened up these rules. What's can happen in North Carolina so North Carolina. We have rules in place for these multiemployer welfare Association plans that have been in place for a while because after there were some instances of these plans going about states really got for broad authority to regulate them, which is still the case with the new rule, which is important to note here that the states still have the broad regulatory authority to employment are imposed reporting insolvency and disclosure requirements for these plans to be sold so what North Carolina has in place is for these older traditional plans that were restricted by industry or metropolitan geographic barriers.

But now with the new rules in place. States really have a big role to play and how these new types of Association plans can operate in the state market so Carolina right now is currently looking at the new rules to see how these new Association plans would operate within the new rules and what North Carolina can do to potentially make these plans more accessible.

So right now we would hope that the North Carolina Gen. assembly in the department of insurance would not do anything to make these plans harder to access. That's all the time we have for the program this week.

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