Who’s Got Your Back

Today on Building Relationships with Dr. Gary Chapman man and their friends or lack of them use of the spirit of the board overdoses and a lot of we bought in all masculinity that our culture is really flawed.

Welcome to building a relationship with Dr. Gary Chapman on the New York Times bestseller "The 5 Love Languages" your manner. If you have a man in your life that you care about.

Don't miss our conversation says that and then often get used to living without friends of the heart their time. Even the church is a place where men are usually alone together.

But it doesn't have to be that way. Other David Smith is with our featured resource to five love languages.com. It's titled who's got your back making and keeping great friendships among men go to five love languages.com Gary wanted to talk about the friendships you've had with other men through the years. How have you been helped by those friendships are crisp, no question about it. The deepest impact my life is been other men who have interface with me. I should back up and say my mom and dad have the greatest influence on my life, but this mostly is through the years. I'm thinking about Jim Merk who lived there near Wheaton was gone. The unofficial navigator representative. When I was a student there.

Jim was not only a friend but a mentor and and even after I finish college Up with him through the years and then Clarence Schumer, African-American friend of mine we been friends since he was 14 years old, really, really close friends and I could go on this name a whole string of gossip. Their friendship has meant a lot to million people it today that I know if I call them in a moment whatever the situation they would do everything they could to help and I have that response toward them so you know this whole thing a friendship and I realize that there's many ways in which what I'm saying is abnormal because there are many men that don't have close friendships and I am really glad about our topic today and excited about talking with David in this book, I guess, helps a man take initiative to reach out and Bill friendships and there may be somebody listing right now who yelled here this conversation was that you know what, that's exactly what I need is what I've been running from but it's what I need linear news, David W. Smith. He spotted events throughout the country about male friendship leadership in the fourth quarter of life and other practical issues.

Former public school superintendent in high school and college teacher as well as a former senior consultant for an international executive search firm.

He holds an interdisciplinary social studies in social policy PhD from Northwestern University and his wife Sue and live near Chicago and are featured resource is his book who's got your back. Find out more at 5lovelanguages.com David, welcome to Building Relationships privileged to be with you especially dealing with such a important topic which should dovetail directly with Building Relationships and even hazard. The comment perhaps that I think you can make a case that spirit that our spiritual health is is really an indicator of how well were connected with other people in our art we are we going it alone or we connect with others. Well I'm excited about our conversation.

So let's talk about me and in friendships. I don't know if you found it true also.

Through the years that this is the lot amended really don't have close friends. They don't wondered about it. Initially I was in the process of moving from Chicago and Indianapolis and we had a garage sale of all things in my dear wife Sue and is out having I thought a delightful time but she was having these wonderful goodbyes and promises the stay in touch and tearful positive hugs and all that I had what I thought were perfunctory.

See around man in your house. The lender you know is it just me here. Is it all guys and so I started misery loves company or not but it seemed to me was a lot more than just me but it was me and remains me, but the the I wonder what Scripture had to say about. I wonder what the normal literature had to say about the secular literature and also it began a study that continues I trust you know I think friendships really are friendships and maybe just distinguish between friendships and acquaintances is a difference right all my goodness there is and you know we we don't have the the time and emotional energy to befriend everybody who enters into our lives. I sometimes feel and need to share that because there's that you may be at risk of being defensive and and in some ways, but you see you see the life of Jesus are others who have close friendships and they're not intimate with everybody you don't have that type of ability, but we need to be close to somebody in the real issue is that many are wandering through life you plan to live a mediocre life. It just happens. They don't plan to not have influence in the lives of others. It's a meaningful level but it just happens. They don't plan to go to church and not have really any connections with other people like I had an opportunity here in Chicago recently with the pastor asked me so you know this is this is a wonderful topic but it but it I struggle with it.

He said because it's it's not easy for me to get guys to connect with guys even in the church and so we had it. We had a long talk about that in and that's the journey and I site I thought what we got a right right right.

Something about this in and see if we can find out why, how, how the secular world conflicts with the Scripture, and that awful lot off. We are what I think is important topic including loneliness is widespread and getting worse and is possibly as dangerous health risk. As our smoking and obesity expert strong statement. Going that well and and I think the more isolated we are even of our life goes out of town on the space of a weekend we do stupid stuff you know we drink too much smoke too much or just to hang out. It's just meant don't do alone very well.

We avoid positions we do risky faith behavior more likely to be in jail more likely to drink. You know, and that it is a story in the paper bag just a few months ago now where I think is on CBS's quantities commercial stations were looked at the stain the running of the bulls and this commentators journalistic. What's the deal. The everybody who was in the running were men where women were too smart to get out there and like my heart but it's even harder if you're stupid. I guess you know men don't do life very well alone, and I would be one example of one guide married up and I think most men if they're fortunate enough to to find the love of their life that the Lord direction to that that it becomes a very positive experience.

By the way their life expectancy is longer. We tend to live longer for married even though mail lifespan tends to be less than than women. Overall, but I think geysers are suffering and it seems to be held up by by data that there's a disease of despair, there's more addiction and overdoses say it's just it's really in a lot of ways I think it's unnecessary because we bought into a false, even toxic masculinity in our culture that really flies in the face of anything I've written Scripture what you think it is that women typically have more friendships and deeper friendships then do me as a biological biological. Although there are some wonderful reviews out there to talk about the yellow member teaching anthropology and that's an area you're interested and I'm sure the witness the natural superiority of women you not how to week. How do we decide what the differences are between men and women.

That's a fascinating topic. The whole idea. I think in our culture. Girls are taught to become women a lot more than boys are encouraged to become men in in American society. I think I think we we as men then maybe in overgeneralization, but I think it holds up to some degree is that the we focus upon fame and wealth and influence and unite really doesn't bring happiness and it doesn't bring anything that's particularly positive as far as influencing other other other people, but it seems to hold across generations.

By the way the you know that most millennial's are Gen Xers or whatever you know there was hope that they might be doing now teaming better and writing better in all of that but in talking to them and interviewing them.

They they seem to be in the same same mindset that some of the rest of this experience throughout the life talk about our culture's view of me and how that is affecting men in general and and then the Christian perspective and how that might differ. I think there a lot of causal factors but to me it seems like I look at my own life. By the way can I say I don't think I'm a perfect example of forming great friendships. I'm fortunate to have a handful of friends but it's been a struggle and they're not there. You know you going across the whole lifetime and and forming a good friendships that are sustained over time.

Inequality endures you mentioned earlier but good good friendships in some of the most important friendships that we have in life are formed very early and they that you know the the idea of forming close intimate friendships in midlife and late in life seems to be more of a struggle than early in life and I'm not sure you know what all that's about, but I do feel that some of the things that prevent us from doing so is some of the stuff we bought into weekly. We feel it. It's harmful to show emotions.

For example, you know that I don't how you form a relationship. If you're if you're not vulnerable in your open up near you. You share with with whomever you're close to that. You know that you got feelings to and that that you simply does doesn't work well and Scripture. Scripture talks to us about the importance of of relating to other people. The idea of bearing one another. I think it's in Galatians a bearing one another's burdens and applies dependency are or were one in Christ, you know, the concept of fellowship and we were not taught that were taught that it to be independent and strong, which flies in the face of that and it doesn't it doesn't seem to work well with the type payment mentality and and isn't just another when III think that night hinted at earlier supposed material things remain more important in relationships and in our culture. I had somebody that I was talking to.

Once you gave me the illustration. Yeah, you don't you don't see a U-Haul being pulled behind her. She can't take it with you facility and what's the big deal trying to accumulate a lot more than than perhaps the stuff that you need and I that just seems to be the way we live. But there is there there are reasons for that, you know, we realize the conflict sometimes and we realize that intimacy can be satisfying but we want that freedom. There's an old there was an old folk song years ago that I think had a lyric ended about that freedom means you've nothing left to lose. And that you like I remember were working with a guy years ago who was divorced and he was celebrating that anything I don't have to answer anybody anymore at 430 in the afternoon I go and do what I want to if I want to have a late dinner stay up on having a few drinks or whatever I can do what I wanted to and he was celebrating that and in some ways people gonna fight with that. But in many cultures. Her and I think in a lumbar but biblical century feel sorry for that person that they were lacking that that that sense of connection with other people, which is so important.

You can't do life well and leisure close to some people and responsible to some people. We talk about accountability biblically in relationships and is so important. I think sometimes that if you if you look at the the life of Jesus. For example, and then compare it to the way we we do like an alert he was. He was interested in learning people's namesake.

He wanted to meet you. We want to talk to you. He wasn't uptight about stuff that he was easy to forgive in his humanity. He was willing to say I'm I'm you stay with me.

I'm I'm afraid he was willing to what was with Lazarus. I think with when Lazarus that he had tears with others with whom he was there.

We in America are less likely to as men to take to share that need.

I suppose you get it yet one. I confess I like old Western sometimes. And there was a Western that was famous. Years and years and years ago that the high noon and it it illustrates to me this whole problem with masculinity in our culture. I think this goes back a couple generations but is still cool film and the fact that the head guy Gary Cooper was the actor, if I remember right, and it's the tale of a frontier marshal guy and he has to defend the town all by himself. The bad guys are come the town and all the people he'd like to depend upon the guys they cower behind saloon doors and he has to do it all by himself and he's the Lone Ranger… The hero of the story that you life is rarely that way you know and you you need to find people.

If you're going to accomplish anything of consequence if you're influencing other people's lives spiritually or in other ways you know and and oftentimes we don't we don't do it well with diversity and see that this seems to me here in Chicago there was a interesting study.

Not long ago out of Wheaton College of all places, where they found that evangelicals had friendships or connections with people who are mostly similar to them and things like age and education, gender.

I think ethnicity, even religion politics certainly race. These are all things where we if you drill down into those areas. We tend to just hang out with people who are pretty much just like us and make maybe we need to be more open and and and look for other relationships like on that study kind of interesting. That is an interesting study. Let's talk a bit about it because you do with this. In the book of friendships of man in the Scriptures we read maybe just some examples of that. What we can learn yeah the Scripture is still open and I was surprised how practical you can find stuff in the Bible on friendship and on on relationships that I look closely at the you know who you are that you and I anticipate everybody be real close and and not in relationships like David and Jonathan Moses and Aaron and Elijah and Elisha, for example, where the unit partner together by doing these were different kinds of of partnerships. The ages were different. The social responsibility, the sense of the being that one person being a leader in the other kind of a follower that was all pretty common, and not a number of these relationships and I always like the one with the Naomi and Ruth, even though it it's we do get some of our best illustrations out of relationships with women whether there in the Bible are within our own lives.

That's not always the case. Even in Scripture. I think of Job and his friends.

What a mess that was it's not all smooth.

The apostle Paul, I think, refused Mark on a missionary journey.

I'm not sure I know the reason why Barnabas wanted him Mark to join in the missionary journey and he was didn't happen at all and how that played out that it's, you know, relationships are tough. Whether it whether we find them in Scripture and in the God is very forthright and then looking at some of the frailties of of all of us that you ask a specific question about what we what we find in Scripture. And it's just wonderful to find the and I got several chapters on this you find things like covenant, you know that the closeness of of why do people form relationships and you'll covenant you, we don't have covenants in friendship and lip covenants.

We do formal things. If we get married or something.

But there are some native tribes that did things like bleeding your fingers together something you know that but but do we invite people together and say were going to form a friendship and we wanted to celebrate that with our friends and that there are lots of things you find in Scripture there's faithfulness and loyalty. There is a requirement of social involvement. There's generosity. I like to think of the thing that you see in Scripture and almost all of these relationships is that in are you a host or guess that's my term. I don't find that directly in Scripture. But when you enter into a new relationship.

Are you do you do you feel like you know you enter into a new room. Maybe it's a conference or something and do you look for people who have some need is are you waiting for people to come and meet your your needs and I think is better to be via a hosted and it is to be a guest and something like that but candor you find candor of verses about candor throughout the Bible, faithful wounds of a friend and so on and you drill down and adding you realize that you if you have a real friendship it. It involves illness person you know you and they're going to encourage you to push forward to a higher mark in your life. In this respect we were all created in the image of God and you know we should respect people were close to them as friends are and friends are not truly friends have a have a respect for each other. I think of even versus what it comes out like Psalm 139 and so on. It begins very early in life, listening, you'll stop me when you want to see where I think that you know they're there several communication skills and we learn in school about reading and writing and speaking we teach those communication skills with their supports one of listening and I'm convinced that we had better listeners in this world we we do have computer emotional or even spiritual problems that listening you can fight you can drill down in Scripture and find lots of illustrations where you you'll see that is an expected trait within within the concept of friendship, empathy.

Empathy comes to mind. We really feel and understand where that colleague is coming from and you know what what what what we do about it and did they know us one of the basic human needs is to feel that you did people know you and that it really can get a feel about what you're doing it with with your life and enjoying with you on that. And in that journey and I think that reflects back a little bit on another concept of self-disclosure like I can remember a young pastor in my life so many years ago was so helpful to me. I didn't know anything about him and he is never disclosed anything to me at all and I could not reciprocate in any way. Maybe that's okay. In that relationship and there is an age difference and all that but I think her real friends tips. You gotta have some back-and-forth is gotta be some self-disclosure for the for the relationship work. I like to use the phrase were stingy receivers and that type of thing look for unwilling to receive in a relationship than the other persons has a hard time giving and that's where the incentive is. I suppose in some ways Scripture and then can I lastly say the least of the moment is added the concept of compromise. You know you mentioned a list of folks who are close to a been close to for years. I'm guessing that along the way.

You know you got a give-and-take.

It's not always your way. In all, or are you present still have that list of folks you would agree with that. You know the Scriptures full of just good sound advice on how to live, but at united I ultimately would come down to two things. One, the life of Christ and the way Jesus related to people in his humanity and then you look at the women in our lives. And if you just observe the ladies in our lives, especially if we are fortunate enough to be married. Usually they're doing it better than we are and it's amazing what we can learn and grow and benefit from an earlier than often friendship start to where young and I want the observations in the book is that the younger man often seem to have friendships and an older man you know and develop friendships but commits any of them are retired and they reaching out and in building friendships are are maintaining friendships they already had. What about those in between years when men are actively working in all of that is it harder to build friendships during those years. I think it proves to be and again, the data shows that the earlier the more likely you are not the form relationships in the causal factors from that may be a little hard to nail down that I think were busy or we can be busier with family and work in church and everything is just harder to deal with that in and also the ideas that you know we we start to solidify what's important to us. And frequently we we get pulled off into fame and wealth and achievement in and of those kinds of things that we tend to think I've had guys tell me that they the there's too much mobility I'll have the time to be moving soon America to be work in the neighborhood and trying to develop relationships where we focused a lot, especially in the middle classes of being busy and yet we just don't we don't take the time you there been studies about the good Samaritan. There was some college that said that there were graduate students. You gotta go over to this certain hall. You need to be there real soon and then they had a couple guys who were in some need but was all fake. It was a study and they found that the graduate students eager Christian men would move past the needed soul because they were in a hurry to get somewhere else and I think sometimes the good can be the enemy of the best and sometimes are missing opportunities because were so focused on civilian we have such responsibilities and met in middle life, I think the busyness is the middle part of life that later in life.

I think that that especially with the loneliness with the data that's out there recently is showing that the more and more people because of divorce because of aging women living longer and so that people are living alone and you know what what we going to help those people. But you think that would lead people to form close relationships in elderly years, but I'm not sure what what's going on. Really there well I think a lot of times over man hours thinking in their own minds and then my thing. Bryce my family have done my thing and then now it's time for me to relax and so they spend their time and with sports or other one of their interest is yellow hunting or fishing and that sort of thing. Nothing wrong with any of that stuff, but life's meaning is not found in pleasure. Really, his momentary life's deepest pleasure comes at a relationship, summing the deepest sense of meaning in life comes out of relationships and I don't want older men to hear me say stop fishing all of that stuff is fine. I'm just saying what is all over. What difference will some of that make it in the lives of others and the kingdom of God. But if we enter into the lives of other people and build friendships and seek to help them and then be helped.

Man, that's where life than just media. Jesus said I didn't come to be served. I came to serve and give my life for others, and I think as we get older we need to continue. Remember that as long as we have life, and ability, then we need to be serving others and and one of the ways is reaching out to and seeking to build friendships but take the choice you have to make the choice to do that and I could if I were a fight of a video of everybody listing right now. My guess is there's some wife is sitting in the car at home, and their thinking. My husband needs to listen to this. He needs friends in his life and I can't get him to do that I can't get him to make that choice. David, what would you say did that wife listening who longs for her husband to have a deeper relationship with friends so interesting that that question because oftentimes people say what I want about friendship is to take away from the family and I've had the privilege of interviewing lots of ladies lots of lives and that they'll say you and I wish my husband are no also say my son or my brother had that relationship because I am providing mostly emotional energy for this thing. They'll encourage that and where using other not anxious to have you been out on the golf course for five hours day.

By the way of Gary's comment so so cool I don't see anything in Scripture about retirement doesn't mean we can't notice of the birth somewhere where is where it says let's come apart and rest a while. That's the closest thing that I've ever found retirement site and I think if it were still ambulatory and were still functional. In some ways I think we've got the joy not just a responsibility to be out there befriending people and doing something and adding value somewhere in whatever the context that might be and in our civic world or church wherever wherever it might be. But back to the question at hand. I think that ladies in our lives.

The just by living the way they they live. We just pay attention to that with ladies of told me is that I try to create an environment that's hospitable where my husband feels comfortable bringing people into the house where we've invited people. Maybe it's after church where we go out with another couple in a week and we maybe see a couple. It's not connecting well they're not part of a small group or whatever it was that you know it just kinda connect with them and let's see if you know and and some of those relationships can absolutely develop into a friendships it's looking for opportunities and it is nothing really profound. It just being other person centered. It's when you first meet somebody you Howdy how you do that how do you I've got a thing where I am doing a seminar and things I ask questions like to know what is it mean to be successful, but in different questions. One of the things I ask is that you start a relationship and you know it.

Sometimes it's nothing, and people volunteer is nothing more complicated than the youth in our culture to give eye contact to smile, to not, I don't think start with what you do is frequently that typecast people in the social classes you know I'm an attorney, or I'm a plumber something out of it. That's always the best way to start the to engage that person. You know what brings you here to this meeting your you know what you think about this or whatever engage them be quicker to ask them something about what's going on in their world rather than to simply be waiting for a break in the conversation where you can tell them something about yourself or something that your you're involved with an offer firm handshake and may be exchanging business cards or in our cup of coffee after church or whatever it might be, but it's nothing really profound it just the focus is just that it's a spiritual attitude. It's an emotional attitude of how we are going to engage the folk and it doesn't have to be with the ultimate of becoming real close friendships. You know some of the most important relationships in our lives or acquaintances. I think there are three stages of relationships. That lead to can lead to friendship and some of the most neat ones are at the acquaintanceship level. You know I member college professor putting on a test you know what's the first name of the lady who happens to clean the hall where were sitting in it only silly it was. How can you ask such a question like that, why not, should we know about the people there. They are created in the image of God. It doesn't mean that you have to befriend everybody.

The Lord himself that he treated the masses with with love and care that it was not his is the Internet. As he did with the smaller groups.

Some of the women in his life submitted the disciples and that was more of a companionship thing that did not require the intimacy that you said you found in real close friends like I think Peter James and John, my right that the that he was closer to them that every level. Even those acquaintanceship about the people that you see on the on the street when you when you leave your your home in your apartment each morning. You know how you relate to those folks and is there always that opportunity. You know you look at what it means to be a neighbor. Is there always that opportunity out there. It's not like you're trying to plan for evangelism bed and wait. Maybe in a way you are it better to fully befriend people meet with we remain open. We remain engaged with them and do it at a and acquaintanceship level. Maybe there's the opportunity to go for further in the relationship, and I think that's across everybody that really everybody that we meet because everybody that I meet you guys. I can be able to meet them out on my own outerwear that that good fun and important responsibility that it hopefully adds value to the folks that I come in contact with. We all have that when we engage the world.

Hopefully it's good for us to get to the people around back to the question that's with the women that I had the privilege of talking told me if my man is involved with others.

It benefits the family.

They may be more responsible with the children or grandchildren that maybe take the time to read to them or take a walk with them. My two grand daughters were here last night and I asked him guys want to go out for a walk. What one was doing something with grandma and the other said sure and I had the most delightful time out there with my granddaughter. You know, and I think you know something she'll say no, but that time. She said yes and so were always looking for opportunities to to be a be a host and not encounter any type of counter. It seems to me the answer to that wise is complaining Risa would be more involved giving him a copy of David's book and say I think you need this to say, I thought you might enjoy this book. I love who knows he might pick up three weeks later and start reading that all along getting that you you can't change your spouse even change them for for good for their own good. You can influence them so you know part of the part of the answer is, I think that women just going ahead and having friendships and and modeling that, but then moving into their life. Don't you think Gary yeah everything that's true, but let me ask you this, David goes was we talked about the benefits of this unit. I think there's great benefits and me in building friendships with other men. Since those benefits are there, why what you think men you don't do this more often. What what prevents them from reaching out and in building friendships habit. Habits are hard to break.

And sometimes we need illustrations just like you guys talk about you women in our lives provide out those examples frequently, but that habits are rare are really hard to break and we were fearful of that intimacy.

We don't want the accountability will suffer loneliness, rather than that that the possibility that this person can consume time. Time is such a valuable thing in our culture. The last time you got to share with another human being, the more important you are and I think of the seven minutes that you get with the physician when you go to the medical officer whatever I think a lot of it is just habits is it's the idea they were not studying Scripture and emulating what we see another in the life of Christ, and other important people in Scripture it's bad habits and we we have them, and make it they can be broken from the literature says it takes about 21 days to form a habit. What havoc can be good or bad. So you really gotta work at it you know it just like like a lot of things in life you you're trying to lose weight enough takes work and if you try you're trying to be more accountable in your relationship, you're trying to be a better husband or whatever it takes work. The thing is there are principles there's really hearts evidence in Scripture and I try to summarize the stuff in the book and on my website by way forming connections.com and with some other articles and some of the things that where you just take a look at this and I'm mindful that guys don't read as much is the good women in our lives. Do I think if your mother your father your wife will you you will pick up this book and say hey here's here's a perfect gift. And now there's good there's good stuff in here that it's it's worth worth looking at this last segment. Let's talk to is when out there who may be listening today and maybe taken it seriously. Maybe just not thinking seriously about it and that's when we begin where you start with this whole thing if you if you really realize that you don't have deep connections with other men you not talk to pastors about this and that they try to engage guys in opportunities to get together informally. Sometimes it's tied to a Bible study is certainly biblically oriented where you known it can be a be a small group of people or if it gets larger that they can they can break up in this and the smaller groups, but it's the idea of trying to create environments where you can get together and you can find people that they can be of like passion, but they don't always have to be.

We talked about, you know, sometimes it's cool to connect with people who are different than you are. And some of those relationships can be most meaningful in a weekly function even as believers in a way that is an old nature that is it that still hangs on, we gotta get beyond self. And sometimes it's just a forceful you know I got a better look for opportunities to smile hello minutes of simplest things in life. The the years and years ago that that book on how to win friends and influence people in a very secular ion. Admittedly a lot of lot of stuff was taken out of Scripture and in and that in similar books like that like to remind folks that you know we really are created by God we're in an and therefore we have worth and dignity, and that's so important to remember that sometimes it even though it's so obvious, and then each of us is the is the benefactor of his redemptive love.

He loves us. Yeah, I look at some verses I think it's an Titus word since you will not bite limit what reversion is it not by works of righteousness which we done but according to his mercy he saved us what he loves us. You know and what we we have that redemptive love and that that empowers us to to to go out there into to connect with other people and we unit we we we can get our strength from God. We don't we don't get it from formulas and some week we get it from God himself and in in prayer, in connection with with with Scripture, I believe, but that leads me then to the third thing in a way related to where do we go from here and I think that we have a responsibility to God for our stewardship. While we here on earth doesn't mean that your retirements okay.

We can make fun of the stuff. Sometimes it's okay to retire but I just think it is long as you can contribute. You can volunteer you can you can read a child story you can pay attention, you can listen assertively that when somebody is is talking to you not looking on just a break in the conversation are was our 16th Pres. Abraham Lincoln once said that you whatever you are be a good one and I think we got a responsibility as Christians in a tip if you're a college professor be a great one.

If you're a retired plumber be a great one. If you're in whatever whatever were in we ought to function well at it. We have a responsibility to continue adding value and I think when were other person centered. It makes us happier happy. Happiness is a strange thing you not to go after directly. It doesn't happen at all.

But if you function and focus on other people. It it can yield a sense of satisfaction in the sense that you're doing the right thing in the sense that the you you know that you're created by God and that we would fit from his love and that that empowers us to go out and contribute in the world that we find ourselves in.

Part of that whole mix then is is your form friendships out of that and that's not a selfish thing it's it's something that that that even though it's very satisfying. It makes you a better person make you happier person but everybody around you benefits that an and and and I would say this that the ladies women.

The primarily the lives of them most vocal that I found when they say I will. I want the men in my life to have friends so that that's where I believe let's go out make some friends and make it a better world are you saying David is that it's not that we one day decide to go out now make a friend, but we decide were going to be more involved in people's lives were going to take advantage of the people that God brings across our path and engage them by asking questions and just getting to know them a bit and out of that friendships like it will develop yet. I think that is so true. I think we need to avail ourselves to opportunities where were in different places and we have some of these opportunities that I've spent much of my my adult life working in public public arenas, public schools, public universities and and public accrediting institutions throughout the world have been in some places throughout the Middle East like Syria and Saudi Arabia and other places and by the way have learned and put places like the Middle Eastern great ability hospitality have learned so much about hospitality and connecting with other people across the dinner table or even in a in a business conference room in in that part of the world and I you try to try to bring that back. I think we just attempt to go about our lives, not in an artificial way. Not looking for you know when can I say this or that but just being engaged in a normal life and that's going to take you into context with lots of people and we just take advantage of that. We don't just blow by that we know him and everybody that we see and meet is someone that again this is a is a created the image of God and deserve some of our attention. For that moment. And it's not about the amount of time. It's about how we approach that limited amount of time as we engage people in the Middle East in places like Russia places I've found that people live life differently but you know I guy find in Europe, for example, that I had many people tell me that you Americans.

You tend to form relationships easily, but you don't drill down into performing real close friendships and I've had taken that seriously try to learn from that. So you can learn and try to grow in and make it and make it better by forming in some cases you want to be you wanted be able to form relationships quickly, but you also want to be open to forming some that are meaningful to can last that can last a lifetime. This is a necessity in conversation and this is a fascinating book and I hope that our listeners are going to get a copy of hope that man will think about using this may perhaps even in a small study group. So thanks for being with us today. Thank you. I really appreciate the opportunity to talk about such an important topic together with you challenging and hopeful conversation today and you will follow up and read more about the topic of "The 5 Love Languages" .com to see David Smith's book who's got your back making and keeping great friendships among "The 5 Love Languages" .com and next week when life since its worst and gives your marriage a crisis you respond.

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