Holding On To Love

I felt like a beauty team for sure.

This process makes a thinking fair and stronger nothingness in a separate nation that she has me thinking has a plan and no matter my family can still trust welcome to building relationship with Dr. Gary Chapman, author of the New York Times bestseller, the five today.

Andy McVicker helps parents walk through the most devastating Valley of the baby holding onto love after you lost the baby are featured recent book was cowritten by our guest post of this program, Dr. Gary Chapman, Jerry, why do you believe this is ludicrous because so many your mom good spirit trial and opened by process things very different ways your reef sort of thing just came up with. She's walk the journey and is many, many of the people walk the journey so I think this book will help a lot of folks, and of our listeners know of anyone who's lost the baby would encourage them to call them to plug into us today.

You can listen to the website. Five love languages.com you can send them to the podcast of the stream right there. Five love languages.com. I guess this candy McVicker founder and Executive Director of missing Grace foundation, whose mission is to provide support resources and education for families and professional care providers when there's a loss of a baby, infertility, or adoption challenges runs the gamut. She lives in South Carolina with her husband and their two daughters and you go to Moody books.org you can see her featured resource holding onto love after you've lost a baby. "The 5 Love Languages" for grieving parents again go to Moody books.org or candidate welcome back to Building Relationships sector Chapman.

It's great.

Let's go back to the beginning when you met your husband, and fell in love, your hopes and dreams were for a family.

This go back in your life and share what it is like in those early days, we were just selling my best friend where friends or five years before we got married now really just had a lot of great plans. As we all do you have a big deal this wonderful thing for the Lord in ministry and and we started our family right away. We wanted to have at least four children and we we were hopeful to also incorporate adoption into our building and so anyway we were elated that we were able to get pregnant and things are great and then they weren't that we started to have a lot of complications and that was primarily with MSS and he was very sick and so I just kept praying and trusting the Lord that this would be okay. Things would work out and we were in the last two weeks of the pregnancy going in regularly because I don't feel the baby. There's very little movement. I just wasn't sure what was going on but I knew something wasn't right.

And you know we had Justin there's a lot of moms that would say I knew something wasn't right, but I didn't know what to do about it, and sell in the seventh visit hats when we were finally given the ultrasound appointment and we were we found that when you first became pregnant with grace and vacations early on that this would be anything except a normal pregnancy now as a young, healthy mom and that's why also the doctor said luckier guide your healthy young you don't have anything that were concerned about. And so it didn't seem like there should be a problem.

However, at that 20 week ultrasound that all Muslims have. There was a diagnosis of a filamentous cord and they chose to know about it and close that file never talk to me about it and that was really problematic because most situations require early delivery and intervention and the baby themselves. They're healthy, but there their connection to life for the Elkhart connectionist is going to be compromised over time. So walk us through the loss of your daughter well with grace and how we were really in foreign territory. We had never had a friend go through this. We didn't know about. It wasn't on our radar.

We skip those things in the pregnancy preparation box those chapters were very appealing. You know you just where hopefully everything works out and I really had no idea what we are walking into and it was scary. It was hard and I had a lot of regrets because when we met her we were exhausted and we were scared and we didn't hold her near long enough, we did not take hardly any pictures. We only have a disposable camera roll of pictures that we received from the nurse. We didn't have video we didn't have any family coming to meet her there was just a lot of things we didn't know what we could do what was allowed, what we might have found more helpful. Nobody was guiding us through that process and helping us understand, and so then in the aftermath you know we were really just wondering what we do with this and felt very wrong. Very broken, very hard because we had so many regrets and so much hurt and pain and we did a funeral and that was really beautiful and we looked for support. Afterwords, trying to see who could journey with us through this and I was very surprised to find that in reaching out to multiple organizations.

Nobody responded to my emails and calls and it became apparent there's just not enough support that's actively involved in really there and helping people presently and so we we felt the Lord was guiding us to start something not only to honor her, but to help people so they didn't go through this alone and that they felt supported and left in the journey. No degree from Charlotte must of been better for you. Well I would love to say handled it really well but I don't know if I did not initially just a moment weaker cry. We grieve know when we talk a lot and I just had to keep playing through the story and honestly trying to figure my way out of that. Almost like trying to work my way out of a nightmare like how how did this happen to us, how I just couldn't believe it had happened and I kept replaying what I could've done different and how I could've saved her, but of course all that was futile because I couldn't bring her back and you know we just didn't have anyone saying this is normal.

This is how you do this, I just ended up going into really dark place and it wasn't uncommon.

I had insomnia and I was really struggling to just feel like I wanted to be part of this place I wanted to go home and be with her and with the Lord, and my husband was really grieved because he saw me just kind of wasting away, and he was wondering what has happened to my wife, and so we we got help from going to a support group we found we found online support we went to counseling.

We talked with our pastors we we began to really reach out and seek out help so we could do it well. But what was really instrumental as I reached out on my online support companies that you know our marriage which is normally so vibrant and strong and we have a wonderful marriage really rubbing each other Ron were struggling right now and and that's when they said you know you should really check into "The 5 Love Languages" . It's a great tool for your marriage and that began only journey for us.

Once we read the book and we can put that into practice intermarriage. This is Building Relationships with Dr. Gary Chapman, author of the New York Times bestseller "The 5 Love Languages" you can find more simple ways to strengthen relationships@ 5lovelanguages.com you can take an easy assessment of your love language right there. It's absolutely free.

Just go to five love languages.com Candi McVicker has written along with Dr. Chapman the book were featuring today holding on the love after you've lost a baby. Five love languages for grieving parents. You can find out more at Candi's website. Candi McVicker.com's like it sounds M CVI CAR Candi McVicker.com or go to Moody books.org Moody books.org before the break you mentioned your husband and you will want to support groups and ultimately counseling is will you tune to handle the grief and pain differently from the where you yes you did you know he had this ability to just turn off the grief fractured and I couldn't and so my mind perseverative and all these things and he had to go to work in your provider and you know and then when he slept. He slept deeply and I was awake and you know he wanted to try to be a good provider and to do things for me that would make me feel safe and because he couldn't keep me safe from the law, so he was almost like over trying to just write a good home and be a good provider and I just really wanted his time, and I wanted him to serve in our ministry with us and I wanted to to be able to hear his heart more for his daughter and he he didn't realize that that would be helpful to me.

He thought bringing her up and saying her name and bring me down and it was the office and once he realized now that actually can access more and I feel safer with you knowing you're being really kind to talk about your daughter and opening your heart to me about her and what your feeling that was very freeing for him and it really bonded us together. You discovered since working with other couples often processes grief different from the water. You know men to handle it differently. I find that they are much more quiet about their grief and more compartmentalized about their grief and so they tend to you know put that more on the shelf and women.

It's very much in the forefront in their thinking about it all the time and so men need to be invited into a timeframe to talk about it. I feel like they feel if they began to talk with their spouse about it. This is going nowhere. They're trying to solve or fix an issue that can be solved or fixed and there is a pressure putting on them.

When the wife is talking about her feelings and her emotions he sending her panic thinking. I don't know what to do about this. I feel helpless and and she doesn't need him to fix it or make it all better. She knows he can, but she just wants his presence and his blessing here in his love and his affection and so is as husbands understand that that gives them freedom to disable calculus and not feel like I'm being a bad person to not make it better. And she also needs to then realize that he can't be her only outlet is very important because there is no way he can handle all the words in all the emotion she's can offer you.

And so that's why I suggest for women you know, go to the support group go to talk to your friends online. Go meet with the other ladies talk with your counselor. Talk with your your pastor off support. So that's important when you need to have additional support.

I think that even the men do go toward helping couples understand the differences in terms of how we process grief is pretty normal. We understand it. Then we were able to cope with another question can be after you lost by the grace were you afraid even to think about getting pregnant again. Yeah I was terrified. You know, it's very common.

You just you really think I ever go through that again. And what if it just happens again and you feel very vulnerable, very scared. Even though the desire so strong to continue to build a family. And so even when we became pregnant. I member getting down on my knees just sobbing in the bathroom one day because I said, Lord, that the fear is so tremendous it feels like an elephant in my chest.

I am so afraid to go through that again. I need to release us all to you. I can't control anything about this. What happens will happen will be the best mom I can advocate the best I can but ultimately I can't control the outcome.

So I'm just can I trust you and I'm going to choose to love this baby for every day I get to have it and I'm going to choose to tell this baby how much I wanted and how much I long for it to be here and bless this child and insight. I took a whole different outlook on the pregnancy and it released a lot from my heart and I went through it much better once I just release it all to the Lord, but I have many moms call me and they're just there so stuck in the fear and pain. Someone ever try again and some who are trying again. They don't realize even that fear goes to the baby like you your your interconnected and you know they feel your emotions and so to try to be free from fear, his perfect love casts out all fear. And so II think it's really imperative that you get the support for the fear and anxiety rulers and the dog is with usual through the whole spiritual and social important, how did you handle the additional pregnancies that came after the loss of grace. I had to living children after grace. And so we have a 17 almost 17-year-old and a 13-year-old in the pregnancy that followed was over three and half years after grace. We had adoptions that felt really had infertility. There is a lot leading up to that and so then when I got pregnant and we start have complications. It was like oh my goodness. Not again.

And yet I had much better knowledge at that point and actually grace. That's one of her guests to me as I knew better how to navigate this in the medical system and how to advocate for my baby and me to have the support needed for high-risk pregnancy signs on bed rest for six months and she came early. She was a month early. She was in the NICU for you know over a weekend, so that was you know the challenges we had to face that she's a healthy child and we're so grateful she's here and she's amazing and then another three years later we had our next child, and that pregnancy had a lot less complications, but each time I had advocate and I had to work hard to make sure I had the right doctors in the right team and to help make sure I had people who were on my side to help me get this baby here safely in the they didn't take a trip Italy that they were an email minimizing the risk or are not addressing the issues at hand. And so there's sort of a mama bear thing kicks and like I'm getting advocate and get my baby here safe and now with our our fourth pregnancy promise. We didn't know we were pregnant and all of a sudden we realized it was a miracle that we would get pregnant because we were supposed to anymore and and so we were very shocked. Once we realize are pregnant start to get excited that it was all over so quickly because we lost that baby 15 weeks and that was sort of like that you know well what just happened.

We name the baby promise because we didn't know the gender but I know we have two deposits in heaven. I am very grateful for knowing that we will see them again. Was your faith impacted what you been through, you know, it takes a beating just say you know it's very hard to get through this because your ear even though I trust the Lord so much and I had such strong faith and I still do.

My faith was really rattled because I felt like this sense of security that God would always protect me and that I would not have to go through the hard things which is in biblical realized you know we will have trials and tribulations in this world there are difficult challenges for us and that we have a faithful when through the Holy Spirit comforting us and guiding us and I know Jesus is our advocate and so I had to go through to a dark place and get to the end of myself and just really pour out my harden and realize he still God, you know, no matter what, he still sits on the throne.

He still our Savior.

He still is there for us with open arms and and I knew there's an adversary to his out to kill Stone destroy. And so I I guess I had this faith crisis moment, but it was imperative to grow my faith like my husband I talk a lot about when you're squeezed what comes out and you know I felt like there is a new oil. I knew mine like a beauty that came forth through this whole process that I my faith went deeper and stronger and like nothing can take away my faith. Nothing was in a separate me from the love of God, and he felt like he has me and he has a plan and no matter what. It is a good plan and I can still trust him. Sometimes when couples go through the sort of loss or turn away from God, for the Lord God didn't treat me fairly. Where is our duty is to run to go right yeah it's very common.

You know, for us to hear couples say I don't think I could ever go to church again. I'll I mean, I'm so angry with God and now I understand that I can handle her pain. He can handle her anger. I tell them, tell him all about it. Just share your pain with them, but he'll still be waiting with patients for you. You know he he is a gentleman. He stands at the door knocks. He doesn't barge in and so he's in a wait for you to say I surrender you know I I also pose a challenge to people, disable what you think happens after this life.

Like if you love your child so much and want to be with him again. Do you really think anger with God gets either an email pushing him away. You need to invite them back in and so we all have to go through it and no matter how strong your faith is II can guarantee it will be affected in some some way. If you've gone through trauma just us and that's and that's a moment of growth that will greatly We all need to grow. People sometimes talk about getting over a loss like this what you think about the idea of getting over it. Well, like I actually got a letter from a relative talk telling us early on, get over it and that didn't sit too well with us. In fact, my husband wrote a very strong letter back to the person regarding that because he said the court were not. It's not like I don't care she's we want to leave behind that didn't fit right will just get a new pair shoes you know this is a life and we were created to just be so callous. I think that's what the world would like us to do about life. You know it's just easily disregarded, and it's not important and we know that the Lord created us to to love our babies and to cherish them in their heritage and we should have a quiver full, and there a blessing and so to have them no longer with us is devastating and it's not a bad thing to miss them and love them and honor them. I don't think we ever quote unquote get over it. But we do take strides to move forward and we can get stronger and less troubled. Where were not able to function or we just aren't really having joy think we do move into a place of joy. Again, there is the ability to laugh again and to enjoy life again. But it takes time and takes time to go through all the emotions and all the layers and process and you still will have bad days I am. I am not in a bad place like I was in the first years after losing grace. I have so much fullness in my life and so much laughter and joy and I have a wonderful life but when it comes to her birthday or when I meet somebody in their child's name is Grace and I have the same birthday as my daughter something just triggering me and I'll just be sad for a moment like I wish our story had been written differently but you know I don't stay there very long. I'm not in the depths of sorrow.

I just have a moment and and I'm kind of, you know, I might cry it here and I might just go take some time to pray but you do you do go on and you have the ability to have a thriving beautiful life. Can you do remember the first time you were able to laugh, you know, as a family or with your husband was or is there something you remember. You recall that that was funny and you gave yourself the permission to just laugh out loud. You know my husband's a jokester.

That's one of his ways. He likes to lighten the room a bit and so he he says funny or something used to laugh all the time at my jokes and I dislike today Mme. like you're not funny anymore and am really you know is funny moment and then we just started laughing hilariously because it was like while he is funny but I wasn't finding you know he is always trying to choke and prod me a bit that way. Enlightened I'm I'm the more serious line and so I need him around. He makes me laugh but but there is a sense to that when he started to share with you what was going on in him you handled differently. The door did you feel this that I'm I'm bearing the weight of all the emotional load here and I don't see him carrying it and did you realize that he just kinda carried it differently than you do. Yeah, I mean I definitely have a respect for him.

That was a new kind of respect. Like I I realized different things about his character and his personality that came through all of the pain that made me feel even closer to him.

You know he really is a good father and he was really hit hard and not being up to parent the starter just as much as me and he's I see him with his children and he would do anything for them and he so good to them and to us as a family and so yes I saw that his way of doing it differently wasn't bad it wasn't wrong.

It's just different than how I do it and so you know we need to give her husband some grace and and realize that they need to be built up and honored to and respected and appreciated in and he when he had that for me it's like it goes back and forth will do anything for each other, you know, when we feel that and so I'm very grateful that I had that realization because I have met many women. They just a sour against their husbands. They they just become so critical at how their processing this and it starts to really break down the marriage if there's a wife listing right know who's felt would you say to her, just what is the father's heart for your husband with his heart for him. You know he created him he loves him.

He died for him and you know if you could just look at him, a new with the father's eyes.

I think that will change things and to pray for him and to bless him. You know he sent the enemy is here your beloved and so do what you can to invest in the marriage to restore that sweetness know we we got marriage conferences and we make sure we take time where we have a weekend away together and me.

You know we go on locks and we read the word together and we pray together and it's it's a constant deposit were constantly investing because otherwise it life just begins to deplete that account and you realize you don't have much left there.

So you need to invest in him and in your marriage.

This is Building Relationships with Dr. Gary Chapman, author of the New York Times bestseller "The 5 Love Languages" were talking with Candy McVicker today. She's the founder and Executive Director of missing Grace foundation and co-author of holding onto love after you've lost the baby.

"The 5 Love Languages" for grieving parents find out more at moodybooks.org that's Moody books.org after a producer loss or the little child you think couples can love their mother talk about this a little bit forward to the bright cooking they love their mood through the process of grief. Well, I think that implementing "The 5 Love Languages" is really critical like it is a game changer and so if you can read the book, read "The 5 Love Languages" chapter and understand how to implement that that will really help. We tend to love people the way we want to be loved and it's often not received the way we intended it to be received and so the person is not hearing your love they're not understanding your love they're not seeing that and there there wanting something different. So figure out how to love and the way they need to be loved and then when we relate that to our grief. For example, with my husband and I wanted him to just be with me and to serve in our ministry with me and to honor her together and so is he began to serve side-by-side with me at our events and in working at the office and helping me with projects I just felt such tremendous love and I was so thankful that he was doing it in honor of our daughter and then for me. I know I think he's a great person and I have these thoughts in my head about how much I appreciate them, but I realized I wasn't vocalizing and so he was he was, you know, starved in the area of affirmation verbally and so I had to learn. I have to express these things I need to text and a need to say it. I need to write it and I know I often spoke about what I was recognizing in his fatherly love and what a good provider and husbandman friend he is and how many ways he honors his daughters and heaven, and that just shows his love think you know any and there's there's just a lot there. So as couples when we asked him to implement this and then we talk about it in our support groups. It is actually really fun to see all the changes that begin to happen. They come in and they start to say you know. While this is really oiling the years of our marriage and were beginning to get along better again and were beginning to appreciate each other more, and where were doing much better and so I I know that it can make a big difference for couples to implement this. You're discovering "The 5 Love Languages" , and applying it in the midst of the grief process is what drew me to want to join you in writing this book because I do believe that our deepest emotional need is humans need to feel loved by the significant people in our lives.

Sometimes when you're going through grief. The emphasis is so much older grief as we talked about earlier that you're not really thinking about the love relationship between the husband and wife and but when we do as you indicated. Restore speaking their primary love language and regular basis were meeting that the drawing us closer together and we both feel that we can process everything better, generally for the lobar spoils. Absolutely that's exactly right risk. Another question is it possible to take a break from grieving. I do think it's possible yeah yeah and I think it's important to do it. We do need a mental break because it's very exhausting to say, grief is exhausting.

It takes a lot of energy and you shall wiped out. You literally feel just tired all the time and you know when you can just give yourself permission to take a little bit of a break. It does a lot of good.

So for example you can go watch a lighthearted movie or just go out with a friend for lunch and take a break or go to the spot, get a massage or pedicure or whatever that would be our media go on a little vacation and you go to a place that's pleasing to your senses and it just feels good to get warm sun in the sand on your feet and all of that is nice to do, but what I realized happens is many people feel that it's also like they're dishonoring the child or their they're not being a loving parent or that that's somehow saying that there ignoring them in some way that and and so what happens is his parents have a guilt complex because if you have, for example the baby there with you would not just leave it alone in the car seat or in the crib and just forget about it for hours on end. Your nursing your changing diapers you're checking on them all the time so were wired to want to be thinking about them, and to be aware of them and so it's really hard for moms will say I just don't know how to turn off my head and how to just walk away from the animals feels like I'm and it's like well if you had your child here. Even then, you would need a babysitter once in a while or your mom and dad come over for a few hours and give you a break to quantitate your husband or to Jesse. Now go get some errands done and just have a break. You know you would do that even if they were alive. And so, how much more when you're going to something lady and heavy do you need a break and said definitely take time and carve out time in your personally and as a couple to take some breaks hope the mom. But really here's what you're saying because it's it's for your good and really for the good of God's kingdom for you to take those breaks so that you can continue to come back and process life. So that's a good word to thank you, what would you suggest if someone is listening who has lost a child. I know someone who is grieving mother infant or child.

How can we be a good friend to that person's experience with what I think a lot of people when they learn of somebody's last baby they don't know what to say. It's very uncomfortable and the they feel nervous about you know how to handle that situation and often what comes to mind are the remarks the platitudes that they've heard other people regurgitate in other conversations around trauma and so without really thinking through what they're about to say. People often just tell these quantities and say things that are going to end up having light lifelong effects because our words have power.

And many people will say I'll never forget the moment. So so-and-so said this years ago really hurt me or it really helped me and so it's very important to pause before you say something and I believe prayer is very powerful in that moment that you just ask the Lord, would you guide me with my words. May they be filled with love and life, and may they bring comfort and just pause and ponder for a second before you say something. What I find those words helpful if I just lost a loved one. When I think that that would help me get through the day better.

What I feel supported and loved. If you would say no to that and don't say that and the other thing is you know people who lose the baby often want to share their story and so asked more questions and learn more about their situation and let them share and do less talking. I also spent a lot of time just holding someone's hand or weeping with you know I don't I don't try to force the tears, but I just have a tender heart.

And if it comes naturally. Don't be embarrassed or try to stop that.

You know they'll appreciate your your care enough to cry with them and you know and just acknowledgment is critical. You know, and validation.

Don't don't minimize their loss and don't try to take the grief away from them. Let them have their the right to grieve and allow them a chance to process with you if they invite you into that depending on the depth of your relationship with them will also determine whether they fight you into the deep place of their grief, they may keep you at arms length because you don't have that kind of intimate relationship with them and except that boundary you know honor that their boundaries that they said if they're not comfortable to share with you some of the more deep places in their life and in their grief, but just love them through it continually extend grace and continually acknowledge and just be a loving friend like you would to somebody else. But maybe throw in a little added extra love to portray. What are some of things that people sometimes but really are not helpful, sometimes very hurtful to grieve.

Well, you know, when we say it's all for the best. Well, that's not going to help us.

We don't feel it's all for the best.

When we say well at least it wasn't a real baby when we're referencing you know somebody's referencing an ectopic room escape carriage will yes it was a real baby just hadn't developed fully yet you know and they say things like, well, you have another, maybe not that person may not be able to have another child you don't know that while you're young, you will have more well you know that doesn't help either, so that there's a lot of things that people say even if you say well it's God's perfect plan that doesn't feel very helpful if if we repeated that to you in the midst of a trauma you know you just got your leg amputated and we say well wow that's great you got your leg amputated. What a great plan.

God had for that, you know that when it feel comforting to you always think about how does it feel to say these words back to myself in a bad situation and and so we want to be very thoughtful about you know choosing those words very carefully. What are some of the helpful things to someone others, many good things we can say no. I miss them so much.

This isn't taken lightly and truly affects all of us. Please know where were deeply saddened by your incredible loss the world that can be the same without them. Here we all missed out it's not okay were not okay with it to say, you know, I can't fathom how badly hurting but I want to levy through well can I hug you. Can I hold your hand. Would it be okay if I visited the gravesite with you know what ways which you like us to support you. You know to do things like give them a gift card to God eater to get a massage or you know to do something especially meaningful or to pay for cleaning service to come clean your house if they're just needing a break there so many beautiful things you can do go for more than one just take care of it for them. You know, anything you can do that says I'm here.

I realize you're still going through this, we still love you sending them a card on the birthday is really impactful. Hey were thinking of you.

It's we know it's their birthday and we miss them. We love you guys are praying for you all for to go to the groups with room. I'm guessing if we do that for you. They would never ever forget stoning, the grapes are talking with you know you're right.

I think that would be very impactful. I don't think very many people do that again a lot of people are very uncomfortable around this, but I have a friend who she knows I can't visit Grace's grave.

It's in Minnesota were in South Carolina and she goes and puts flowers and takes a picture and send it to me and it just makes me smile even though I know she's not physically. Her body is still laid there are spirits in heaven, but her body that still the body I gave birth to NAI just it's a place of honoring and so it means a lot to me. Thanks for joining us today for Building Relationships with Dr. Gary Chapman and thanks for telling others about this conversation. Maybe you know a couple going through a loss of the baby sent them to five love languages.com they can hear the podcast right there, go to five love languages.com Candi McVicker is our guest and our featured resource today is the book holding onto love after you lost a baby. Five love languages for grieving parents become drill associate looks talk about the copal children living children and they lose a baby boy process with those children. While we need to understand how hard it is for these children who lose a sibling there grieving to and they often get overlooked and forgotten about because the parents are just so burdened with what they're going through with the lost and so we need to have the whole family unit.

Step into just love on these other children and his parents. They need to realize this is going to affect all aspects of their life just like it affects the parents life something they're going to address. Fear, anxiety, they're going to feel concerned that you know of my baby brother sister died. What if I die what if my parents die. They're going to feel the vulnerability of what comes with death. They're going to have a lot of questions and things that they don't understand you know and depending on their age. You know you have to give age-appropriate support and love to them through it. I often suggest drawing and writing is a really great way to process where we draw and write things out or going to a sand tray therapist who can help the kids process is a great form of therapy for children that just being patient with them.

We might have to shift how you do things with the kids with your typical discipline and structure because they need a little bit more wiggle room and some grace.

You know they might have behaviors they may act out they make children angry have troubles at school and so all of that is an opportunity to talk about the feelings. What are you feeling and how can you know and and walking through that with him and how can we help them and you know acknowledging to those around them to let them know they've lost, even if you know you had early miscarriage that the baby knew the child knew that you are having a baby. You're going to need to let people around you know so that they realize will my child struggling because they lost a sibling, even though it was early on, so we can help these kids really well. We can actually help them come through this strong we can give them tools and resources give them things that are meaningful like we give them a bear and me say this is your brothers bearing your sisters bear that we would have given them, but we can give it to you and you get to hold and care for it now so there's there's ways we can do these things in an honoring way and help them but do it as a family in a family to grieve together will stick together long haul and go through this well the kids the kids will actually end up being very empathetic caregivers. It's amazing how many people I meet who share my baby brother sister died and that's when the doctor share. That's why my pastor today and that's why I'm doing the field I man because that affected my life and parents and extended family can be reported this as well Road, absolutely and definitely grandparents the other third level he craved there watching your child go through the pain of loss and they lost a grandchild and often they feel sort of on the back burner and everything that they're not seen or noticed or how badly they are hurting and so they need to get support and help to and you know I love it when families get together and they do things that are very meaningful one. One thing is just like have like a bonfire and everyone sits around and talks and and is able to share or there's a family Journal on the you know the table in front of the couch and it's a journal that everyone can write in your notes in your pictures and many think about their grief and you can look through and see who's put things in that journal lately and know there's ways to incorporate even special occasions when you have a wedding. We know what a holiday you have a candlelit that's a memory of the baby that honors and acknowledges them and everybody gets to be able to feel like that's the candle that's for our loved one collectively when they were all missing. Soon the book it's not a good to write the grief of others. What we call the grief meter meaning we all feel this or we do this to others and we want to try to caution people through what we share in the book about not doing this and that is that we we say your grief has a certain place in my mind of acceptance and an allotment of time about your allowed to to grieve. So for example you had early miscarriage. Okay, I give you a few weeks or a few months, but you need to move on and get past it, or you lost a two-year-old and that child was a really bad scary awful death, and so I give you a year or two years to really grieve that and you start to know put this weight on the person and they feel that that you are thinking they should be done now and and also just in importance level. So, for example, my support groups all say everyone gets validated here. Everyone's baby matters here and were going to uplift and honor everyone's story and somebody sitting in the groups as well. I only had a miscarriage. I mean, yes, I miscarried them 18 weeks, but I can imagine what you went through with your stillbirth and immediately they mitigated their own story and this other person feels like they don't know how this to support them because they're already putting on their own story that they there story is equally important and so we we can do to our own selves and so let's just say all life matters and that every baby story is important and precious.

And let's be honoring each other and each other's own journeys and not rate what we think is a level of attention and time that's allowed to be given to the grief through this.

You did establish a nonprofit Russian mission grace foundation tell us about what you been doing through the we started at shortly after losing grace and we had no idea when we started it when it would grow to become and so we have support groups. We have mailed resources. We ship out care baskets and care totes to hospitals and clinics, and these have all the items needed that a parent would want to use. While there with her baby or shortly after losing your baby or child that these are things that will bring comfort. Everything from hand and foot molding kit that footprints to a memorial bracelet and candle and barren blankets and outfits in literature.

We have online support phone support support group meetings or in person or online.

It's it's grown where we we help thousands of people throughout the nation and the world. And so you know where the little engine that could. I guess we know where small organization with my husband and in a handful of wonderful volunteers but we do a lot of work and able to help reach a lot of people and missing grace can be reached at missing grace, ductwork and grace is an acronym that stands for grieve per store, arise, commemorate, and educate. And that's the goal and mission through programs so excited about what is happening through this ministry will encourage your listeners know people who might be going through this themselves to go to your website that I think this is also for this book to be extremely helpful if you know someone who's going through the loss of a child. I hope you'll get a copy and give it to them as a gift because I think there's they work through the book, thank you so much as a pleasure that I hope this conversation has incurred loss grown given you the ability to reach out and enter into the loss of someone else. Resource Gary Chapman Victor is holding on to love after you've lost five love languages parents find out more books for books, a woman who live here Marcy Greg's story in one week. Thank you to our team.

Todd Building Relationships with Dr. Gary Chapman's production radio in association with the ministry of Bible Institute. Thanks for listening