Get Out Of Your Head - Jennie Allen

Are you spiraling thoughts holding you captive the new mind is a mindset on five it's fixed on a hope that transcends our circumstances and how you live is a direct correlation to how you know it's not just for your kids and it's not just for your friends. There spouse. It's for you. Once you welcome to Building Relationships. Dr. Gary Chapman, author of the New York Times bestseller the five love my today author and speaker Jenny Allen said the greatest marital battle of our generation is being fought between our ears. Is it possible to stop the thoughts that intrude will talk about that with her today. Five love languages.com see your featured resource yet out of your head. Stop in the spiral.

Five love languages.com Gary, have you ever had any toxic nerve or groups. What you talking about… Loser look like all of us through the years of books that are crazy and wild and sometimes evil, and I am really excited about our conversation because I think this book of Janel is going to be able to help so I'm looking forward our conversation to talk just for the program about the span of ages who listen to this program.

There are people in their teens and 20s, 30s all the way up in their 70s and 80s, and this subject is going to hit you right between the ears as they say you'll find out what I said that as we meet Jenny Allen. She is founder and visionary behind. If gathering an organization that equips women to know God more deeply and disciple others. If has reached more than a million women in nearly 200 countries of that amazing she's a popular podcast are sought after speaker just a Masters degree in biblical studies from Dallas theological seminary. She and her husband Zach live in Dallas Texas or nearby with their children and again our featured resources get out of your head, stopping the spiral of toxic thoughts. You find out more at 5lovelanguages.com welcome to Building Relationships. Thanks for happening Gary it's great to be here. Your goal is to help us stop the spiral of toxic thinking. So first of all, let's define toxic thinking what you mean about it. Well I love you guys opening this out because the truth is, everybody's having a lot more toxic thoughts than they realize.

And science teaches that this so over 85% of people thought in general are negative and I know and over 95% are repetitive from the day before. So what that means is that with thinking the same negative thoughts over and over and over again on repeat so you know discouraging when you hear that, but what I mean by it is the ones that really crappy and typically most human science teaches us as well. Think anywhere from 9000 to 60,000 dot in a day.

The line of thought, and so we think of as Scriptures like take every thought captive. You know that the Holy Spirit that that we are having so many not answer the first thing I really encourage people to do is to write down their thoughts and what you will see, if you do that is you might see some of those negative themes rise at any 60,000 thoughts and so many of them being negative.

Typically, when people write down your thoughts will start noticing a really toxic pattern. Maybe it's an at fear of not having control over their health. Or maybe it's fear about the future because of politics or maybe it has something to do with your kid a lot of people right now, concerns about the kids when they're just spinning endlessly with fear, anxiety, worry, and it's it's really truly taking a strong hold on and so Scripture so kind, because it talks so much about that but what I found in my research is that science talks a lot about it, too.

And what science taught me is exactly what the Bible taught me growing up which is no God made our brains and our brains are built to have way more control than we thought of finger listeners already do this because all of us have some negative thoughts from the sump is conveyed to the world.

Who or what inspired you to tackle this topic. Yes, I have this daughter. She is now 18 years old that when she was in seventh grade. Her science teacher saw Hassan growing her for the brain and specifically to become a neuroscientist and says she started feeding her. All these articles and my daughter K really all through high school and middle school wanted to be a narrow researcher and narrow scientist and so she wanted a healthcare Alzheimer's was her goal. So together we would watch Ted talks and we went read all these articles and again when I saw was this thing that really surprised me. Which was that we have way more power over our thoughts.

Then I realize now if I told you my my friends say is over and she's crying and I told her hey. Quit being sad.

You know it doesn't really work by you actually do have more power over your thoughts than you can imagine and and science tells us that in Scripture tells us that so I think what what was exciting to me when I read that was I work with women every day. My life you know for the last several decades and so what I know is that I want to help them right. I don't want them to be stuck in bondage. I don't want them to be stuck in fear and paralyze without what most motivated me was if there's a way out of toxic behaviors and toxic thoughts, and even toxic feelings.

What is that way and what science and Scripture were both saying is through our brain.

It's controlling our thoughts. We may not be able to control our emotions that we can control our thoughts so it's been the response so far. To those who read this book. Yeah it's it's overwhelming. I mean completely overwhelming. You know something about that because you're always one sales slot above me. Gary's 20+ years later but but yeah it's been absolutely astounding how many people have resonated with this because I do believe, especially coming out in 2020 with the pandemic and with everything politically that's happening in the unrest that we all feel. I think everyone has time to actually feel the anxiety that they probably stored up I think we just been too busy to deal with things like this. And in this season what it's done is not necessarily brought new struggles but I think we been able to see them when my friend says it's like that. The lake was drained in the pandemic and and you see with at the bottom and and I can be really discouraging, or that can be really hopeful that it's time to do the work and I think so many people have in the last scene of the book linking out six or seven months ago, hundreds of thousands of people said you know what I want to do that work. I want to notice what I'm thinking about because most of us never think about what were thinking about what we feel we think about how our relationships are affecting us, but we don't think about what we think about and I think this is a great moment to do that because it's helpful to actually deal with the reality of our hearts should be discouraging, especially for Christian because there is so much hope and a way out your crusade earlier that you found good gathering and through that you've met thousands of women all of the world do people in other cultures face the same issue of toxic thinking. I think humans have been facing this since Adam and Eve, I think the same thing that happened to Eve in the garden with enemy is something that I experienced and really was the reason that I wrote the book primarily because I walk through a season of doubt and God's goodness and doubt and God's existence and it was it was a brother led me to a season of anxiety about death and about the future and so it paralyzed me and and I kind of put up with it for so long that I didn't even realize anymore what was happening.

II just I didn't realize I was under spiritual attack.

I didn't realize that there was back to change the way I was thinking I didn't let people in, and I think that's very human. I think that not just is happening everywhere.

I think our brains are fallen from from the time of Adam and Eve and in our brains tend toward the lowest common denominator of feeling sorry for ourselves and being victims and being ungrateful and part of the power he's given us with the Holy Spirit is to shift all of that and to give us a new heart and new mind. He says mind. It's like Christ. We have the mind of Christ, so it's all a transformation project but I do believe, yes, all human struggle with this and I think it's our propensity to to see the worse.

He said the best. I also think this is irregardless of personality think I'm a pretty positive optimistic person so what was crazy.

As I look back and I see even if it wasn't minute on a given day that was affected my thoughts at 3 AM about the existence of God you know is almost like the enemy was to find a way to get to me and I think that's true for all of us is if we can be discouraged and defeated and distracted. That is a powerful place for the enemy to have this right and so that's where I just, I mean I got angry and I wanted to fight this Jenny there's something that you said earlier, just this line of thinking we have more control over thoughts than we understand that can be comforting to say well I can do something it can also do the opposite to some people and so will you told me that all my toxic thoughts are my fault. So now I feel you I feel even worse than I did when we came into this. I feel bad that I have the thoughts I can't stop what you say to that person. I would say oh this is not a blanket.

This is a human game right like we are all prone to do this and I want to be really clear that mental illness is Israel. This is not something you imagine in your head. You know if it is new to the point of diagnosable anxiety or depression counseling in medicine. My husband and I both are big fans of that and had seen God use those things in our lives at different points. So I want to be really clear that you can't think your way out of depression necessarily or anxiety you might need some other tools that God provides.

Besides just your willpower, but I can't say even for those diagnosed with anxiety and depression. The idea that there's a control panel that we have access to should be very empowering that that that should feel like great news and I think for most people it does because I think the trick of the enemy is to make us think that we had no power that we feel what we think. All that is just subject to our circumstances and subject to our personality type are our biology and I'm saying those things play a part, but but we have more control then we think. Did the research I saw 60,000 thoughts as I'm on that you are not the 9000 on and when I when I saw that and then I read the first take every thought captive very discouraged right and not take 60,000 thoughts Completely overwhelming and so I get that feeling that people have the just healing helpless. But the one thought came to captive and this is because of the gospel of Jesus Christ. The one thought, we can take captive is that I have a choice, a God-given choice that Jesus died for, and said that line I have a choice. It's what I use every single day still because I still struggle with this and will till I get to heaven on I still struggle with worry and fear and obsessing over things right that that's the way I'm good.

I'm in a fight that till I die.

But I can't find it and and I do this all the time and I will remind myself I did it with my team yesterday. You know, I wrote the book a long time ago that I pulled all that out for devotional. Just yesterday, it is gathering offices because we can really revisit this every month or so because we have to realize again await what notice what you're thinking and what is true and interrupted with that idea. I have a choice you're suing the toxic thinking can do regular goals keep us from making positive life changes and even destroy relationships. It's pretty pretty tremendous impact the book that forced little bit yeah will Scripture tells us that we are what we think as a man think it so he is. You know that that is a versus capture so that we really are defined by what we think about and and I drew in the book like this. It's a spiral.

And you know the spiral is pretty endless. But emotions lead to thoughts. Thoughts lead to behaviors. Behaviors lead to relationships and relationships, then it again impact our emotions and emotions impact our thoughts and guts on and on and on. Right.

So that spiral can go either way can go positively or can go negatively down and I'm I'm noticing you know my life when it starts going negatively down. It's really difficult to pull up depending on how long that's been happening right so so the hope is that if we know we gotta figure out what's the point of change. With that, what's the least resistance to change, a lot of people would say behavior, but I know better than that because a lot of times my behavior is just an exact output of my religion or my my motions so my behavior becomes an exact output in my motion so I can't just depend on him controlling behavior. Although I do believe I have control over that too, but the the place of Scripture really calls us to enter and into take the reins is in our thought life and specifically Romans says that. Do not be conformed to this world but be transformed by the renewing of our mind. So the fact that we can change he saying changes possible through the way that you think renewing your mind. So I just was that person treat me I thought what if were working on all the wrong areas. If our minds change, could everything else change for the positive, negative, it's also really hopeful that we can enter our lives and and starts change everything you wrote mightily are primarily to women, but do man here these negative forces know I can even tell you how many men every stop reading this book and I think I think it is absolutely again it goes. It's it's humanity I was in it. I was sitting in a awesome talk recently after the book came out one of these men I really respect stopped in the middle of it and some in the audience is. I just want you know your book change my life and I was just so I because I really respect him and and it meant so much to me because I do think that this is and I even wrote it, knowing that wives would be passing it over their husbands and having them do it.

So I tried not to to write it primarily to women, but that is certainly who I'm called to minister to and and largely have done that since I started seven. Absolutely this is meant to. I think we all fight SME dotted do a better job talking about it.

I think sometimes women are more in touch with what they think and what they feel then. Then, in fact, a lot of times I will end up speaking to men and and all have them do the mind map which is in the beginning of the book and they'll start to write all their thoughts out that they thought for the last 24 hours and then won't stop writing. They can't believe it's like the most fascinating thing they've ever seen never even notice whether thinking about. So it's really important for men to work through this to your work. Usually coaches come to my mind to the responsible mousses. We often have sinful faults thinking about a husband to share all of these thoughts are run through his mother during the day.

You know your sinful sure that with his wife or want to hear that you speak for all wives writing that superpersonal for each relationship that for me my husband I feel so much peace about my relationship with Zach because every week he meets with four other men on at 6 AM and they have coffee and they go through the hardest questions you can ask each other and so my confidence comes from the fact that some notes right like not living in isolation and enjoying that he struggling with that but I think you know that would be hard for me to carry or even understand. And so I think it's just that that somebody knows we can't live in the dark.

We got to be honest about what were thinking what were feeling because you know Jesus was pretty clear that that yet he change the commandments on everybody he was like it's not just don't sleep with a man's wife. It's don't even think of a man's life.

So I think you know Jesus really took it to our minds.

He really took it to our motives in our heart and and so we've got to be zealous for this. This is important to God. And I think it is the reason so many people feel like they're in bondage, even if their behavior is somewhat moral there. Their minds are no prone to sin.

And that's just human. That's not you know special people that are really messed up.

I remember one radio host asked me the question so I mean is this just for really messed up crazy people and I was like that is is is such a guy question that you're crazy doing so all I think we all need. You know the mind of Christ every day to to override whatever our sinful desires are so yeah I think that that's our common grace is that we all need the same God and we need to change you know you so when you're thinking about what you're thinking, you're taking time to write it, which is a way of doing that, you're really learning out to yourself in the presence of God.

Would God already knows just acknowledging what he already knows about what our thoughts are aware is a way of making us conscious of what were thinking is the first lip is one of your is yes.

Yes.

And isn't it a kind Stephanie is his kindness that leads us to repentance right, not his anger and I think that is what everybody's gotta realize now I just think this is scary. If we feel shame on top of the shame we feel shame for feeling shame.

You know that that's impossible see no place to be.

But the truth is, he calls us out of our shame. He wants us to recognize it so that he can set us free from strangers a little bit and let's talk about the neural plasticity and the science of the brain and how that compares to what the Bible says about our module alluded to this earlier, but I think many people don't put those two things and so incredible what the Bible salesman neuroscience, so let me take you on into the science a little bit super fun and fascinating. The brain has know everything everybody knows this, that they have neurons make up the brain and these are real physical things, and every neuron has another real physical part of it like a brain to that specific cell called a microtubule and so that little brain processes your thoughts right so it takes a thought that you're having, and it builds a little city in your brain so the microtubules build little cities around your thoughts and and it physically alters your brain so when you have a negative thought a little city is built right in your brain around… Suggest from one thought how long Gary would you guess now you are really smart and I think you qualified way more than me to talk about this so I thought you might actually get this.

Most people doubt how long do you think it takes from the point that you have a thought till you know that little city exists in your brain.

I would think it might be pretty. First, everybody thinks it's like .2 seconds it's actually 10 seconds and why I find that so interesting is that your brain is actually thinking about your thinking harder than you are. Your brain is working really hard around your thoughts.

It's it's due. It has a lot of action around your thoughts and so the fact that you think a negative thought and 10 seconds later a little city a little physical alteration has happened in your brain is a little bit scary yet. I think people are like outbreak. I've been thinking negative thoughts for 15 years like what what do I have my entire like a hole in my little scared by the truth is that should feel really hopeful because in the same way that a little negative city can be built into a positive city can be made to and I think that's the hope we have is we can change this. And yes, it takes time. When I walked through it on into a little while more in depth when I walked to that season of doubt. It was really long so I didn't just change my mind overnight like that.

It took weeks no almost months to walk out of that season so I want to give people hope that changing the patterns and disciplines are mine takes work and it takes time.

It's not something instant, but it is something that can change and and starts with this really positive interruptions. That and fighting back with what God's given us so you should replace those negative thoughts with the positive, but the negative comes back again so would say that I mean I think that's I try to get to the end of like what is there hope you know is if you don't believe in God. What is what is the hope of self-help.

What is the hope of the science community, for this and they always kinda ended with something like, believe in yourself.

You are upset like you are an athlete other. All these messages that I don't actually believe I am too. I'm like I am really a sinner. In fact, I yelled at my kids are learning enough. When you I like actually don't feel awesome like that didn't ever stick for me what what I found more helpful is to interrupt those thoughts with weapons and guys get any. I tell people to if you're treating this passively.

It will run over you like it you. Your brain is hardwired negatively. Add to it an enemy that does not want you to be free, you're at war and if you don't treat it like war then you are going to keep getting run over.

And so what change for me after the season of doubt was realizing the power that I have because of God. Second Corinthians 10 tells us that we are fighting flash that were fighting, fighting spirit and he says that I'm giving you divine weapons to destroy strongholds and and that's exactly where it also leads into and so therefore take every thought captive, so is is all about our minds that he's talking about and that theory, you know, intense war language passages and and what I saw was guys, we are being passive about this. We want to just stick a positive thought on it and will sticker on our mirror that says you're a great person I like that's not working. We have to realize that the goal of the enemy is to completely destroy to kill, steal and destroy us and what a great way to do it in our mind, where you know he can say whatever he wants to whisper to wherever he wants to us, we believe it and it's on repeat 95% of our thoughts are on repeat. So I think this is been a strategic way he's gotten us and my hope is that people would wake up in the class at that fight this regularly in the what the three things that are clear to me does divine weapons throughout Scripture are the spirit of God to pray in the spirit that we have the power like we got to now I speak with authority against the enemy because I don't have to be held captive by his lies in the middle the night, which is what was happening and the number to the word of God, which is what got me through some 139, when I had that fear of death that that was pretty pervasive in my life I would I would speak and pray someone 39 that if I go up to the heavens you are there I go down to the grave. Even there you are with me and so I would say that over and over again that cannot flee from your presence, fighting with Scripture and in the third thing and this is probably the one people are not prone to be excited to apply is the people of God that we need to tell people we need to bring people into what were thinking about.

We can't just write her own list and sit on it. We have to tell people what we do in processing because if we don't tell them, then what can happen is where stuck in it ourselves. The minute I opened up about an 18 month struggle of doubt in minute I get and I heard myself say it to my friends number one, they fought for me. They fast and they prayed and never to I heard myself say it and I realized I'm under spiritual attack, and I knew better how to fight it but it wasn't until I admitted it to other people that I could really get free sojourner you've alluded to a dark time in your own life, in particular with a lot of doubt about God himself share a little more fully with us and how you work through that what it was like so I think that something we don't talk about enough is that I think we we all have doubts. I listen to Tim Keller a lot to that season and he's he's really kind about that. He just says doubt is really a part of faith. But it really grew from just casual thoughts to a stronghold because it was three and every night I woke up in the middle the night every single night for 18 months and I would just be asking myself these huge questions as is this really true and and are we sure that God is real and I realize when I look back at that season I was feeding myself a lot of cynicism and I was not in the word as much as I was in a reading the news and and social media and all that, I think, but begin to happen. Is it just begin to erode my competence and and certainly the enemy was a part of that to. In fact we talked on that second Corinthians 10 passages says that that we we destroy any arguments being lifted up against God, and I think that was what was happening to me as their argument in my mind being lifted up against God, and that's another thing Tim Keller says is, be sure you put your doubts on trial.

Just put your faith on trial.

Also put your doubts on trial and I didn't do that to those 18 months. It wasn't until again. Like I said I let people and I begin to fight that it was scary, and especially somebody who's leading a massive Christian organization I'm speaking and writing about God and faith. It it was it was very scary. And yet I never lost that hope you know that Hebrews says that the evidence of things hoped for, and I think that evidence of things hoped for is what I held onto. I always saw evidence of of that hope and I always wanted it to be real and so I held onto that I held on to other people's faith in my life that as soon as I turned and started fighting it instead of just letting it happen to myself.

Everything changed and I think that's why I wanted to write the book was other toxic sparrows could be fought in a similar way, where where instead of just letting it happen, as we actually turn and fight those governors to the question because you were while you're going through this you were losing your your group youth gathering and worked with all of the struggle and doubts with no what was it like before before you shared it with anyone else. Seems to me that was kind of a turning point for you when you sure it was some from a trusted friend of what was it like when you're going through that in your newer but actively talking in terms of the people about life in other – yeah, I remember my editor when I wrote about this this season was worried about me. She said I am worried people are going to look back at that season of your life that was significant and long way spoke a lot in and feel like you are being a hypocrite and I was like I'm not worried about that because I think I look back at myself, even in the midst of that, even when I would be preaching and wondering in the back of her head.

Is this pretend like my wasting my life on this wondering would be there, but I preached still with faith if that makes sense like I never was never fake. It was just wrestling and I think that wrestling is what I want to comfort people with his that's not evidence that you don't have faith, maybe it's evidence that you do and I think that season I look back on like I never did.

I never did lose my faith. The energies in the book as I felt like I was hanging by in the air and I was just falling but what I didn't realize and I would later realize is that I was falling from a crane that had a strong hook in my hands and I would get a fall and that our God is my fate was not being held up by my thought life or by my willpower, my faith is held up because it's a gift from God and he secures me for eternity. It's not myself and my faith.

So now I think that is comforted me.

Looking back, that they got let me know feel that way. I think to be more empathetic toward people and to have more compassion as people wrestle with their faith, and it just wake me up to how much I need God right but but I I don't think that I was fraudulent. I wasn't believing another religion. I just was scared.

It wasn't true to the world is different from overt soon. Would you agree with the way I hope everybody hears that loud and clear. His yeah it's now I think you can see doubt and it becomes I do believe that I think I think my sin and all of that was just not being honest with the people around me and in hiding what I was going through.

I think that's where it turned darker and I think that's why gave the enemy no room to run with without fear and with anxiety so I do think that's where we can do a better job. Just let people in two to do is go scary because you don't know other people don't respond. So how important is it to Michael was a decision about whom you share thoughts with such a good question. I want turn that back to you. Dr. Chapman just because this is your this is your real house and I be so curious. Your answer to that think it has to be a person you trust a person that you have a relationship with. Not necessarily just a professional Christian like a plaster your symptoms people to like what Marilla Schermerhorn negotiated with the pastor or professional counselor. I don't think that's necessarily true, but it does but you have to be someone that you have a relationship with its pretty deep in the you trust them with your thoughts. Would you agree with you have a different slant. Yes no I think we I think we throw our our most difficult things around the Internet and and are summarized that that we end up. You know, feeling more isolated. I think we gotta realize that life on life, sitting across from somebody trusted time committing to the relationships that might be difficult for a long time but proved to be more fruitful in the end I think we've got to be slower to walk away from difficult relationships, you know, because those difficult relationships. Maybe we are supposed to make us more holy.

So I think we run from difficulty in and leave behind kind of our intimacy with people so so that's that's a deeper, bigger subject, but I do think you're exactly right. We got to be more careful who we share with but we but you always say you gotta have two or three people that know what's going on with you that I can ask you the hard questions that are not going to know leave you in your own head for too long we talk about salt newsletter basalt but can interrupt negative thought pattern or is it door.

There many faults. What will come July 1/yes well again I had to boil this down yeah I have to pull this down. I couldn't eat out it overwhelming to take all my thoughts captive.

It felt like trying to catch you. Then the dragons in the book is a little bird loose that that was in our house one time you was impossible so I don't know how to take wild thoughts captive very easily, but that what I do know how to do is to place a thought in the mix right so the thought that I really encourage everyone to to think as often as you need it is I have a choice and again that is that God-given power that he's given us. And so you know, the book really lays out the different choices we have that we can choose gratitude instead of victimhood that you note that we always have a choice as to which road to walk down Romans eight lays that out so beautifully that there's a road to sin and death in a road to life and peace, and some of us are just stuck on that road till to sin and death. We just know it well. We keep choosing that way.

Romans eight clears with the power of God gives it the ability to switch roads you can move to the road of life and peace.

That's possible today. People are driving or doing dishes or doing whatever they do in our life. That's at the moment we can realize had don't have to think about this, what it looks like for me is pretty quickly. I will notice if I usually notice my feeling before my thoughts so I'll feel anxious and all need to stop and think. What am I anxious about and all notice I didn't encircling this one subject a lot and so all I'll just tell myself like okay I'm a choice I don't need to go down this road anymore.

Sometimes that won't work right. Sometimes it just doesn't work and so pretty quickly within.

I would say two hours if I notice myself really not able to get off that spiral. I will phone a friend and I will say talk this out with you really quickly. By that point I prayed about it.

I've read some Scripture. Yeah, I thought it on my own, but it is just not if I can't get off that road. I'll bring a friend into it and I think I'm a lot quicker than 18 months.

Now he know now it's more like two hours and I'm on call and somebody because I just don't want to dwell on it.

I did this yesterday.

I do this. Probably once a week where where I get really stuck on something and I can't get off it and I'll just call a sister or one of my good friends and just say hey Process this with you and usually they'll just listen. It's different friends.

I don't want to wear anybody out is different from putting on the subject ends and all. Just a hate hypothesis. I might only need to talk about a two minute may not need that friend to say a word to me. I just needed to say it, and when I hear myself say it is a little bit different than just being in my head and that's why we call the bucket out of our head of your head.

I really do think we gotta say it out loud sometimes to to move on. Didn't have a question for you. The person in your life. Think about a couple different people who have this, they have this toxics. These thoughts, toxic thoughts by work spiraling around. How do I help health does the person on the other side they need that person who's going through this. Well that is a very tricky question because we've got to be first of all doing this ourselves. One thing I do with my kids because that's what I think about the most.

I want to be the most free in life right what I'll do with them is I will get them talking, I will just get them talking at what they're worried about because a lot of times if you can just get them to open up and want you to some of my kids do this easier than others then and I start the process, then they will kinda come to their own realizations and they'll, start to admit you know what this is really really thinking about this a lot, and you've just got to be bold and fight for people. This cannot be something more passive about ourselves and it can't be something repressive about another people.

I really believe in marriages.

I think think husbands should read this book with their wives because you can help each other and you can you can notice a lot of times it will be exacted that will see me in my face and my posture and say what you worried about you see me being worried and he'll be able to call me out of it and I didn't even notice. You know, so I think we've got to be on guard for the people we love and that we gotta do it in a way that's relational and not telling them what to do. That never works.

I've never seen it work doesn't work when someone does it to me. I bet if somebody says hey wait about something and they're willing to sit there and listen for a good little chunk of time.

I'll probably talk about your kids what to do and I bet your husband well so I think we just have to be those that practice listening and helping people come to their own conclusions and in exploring what God has to say about that together on emphasizing my favorite thing is when Sadi has that you know the head nod the head not always to me means I get it you know it's a you not alone. So I always and someone who but my daughter makes noise like yes he's agreeing. I nod my head. I think we all have a different thing we do but but it's important to just to listen and to get it and and to be and it was somebody. You should really lose something that is putting yourself in their shoes and trying to understand what they're thinking and feeling is probably the biggest thing we can do to help the student answering questions in front of the professor, like Dr. Chuck relationship so I would love to hear kind of what your thoughts are not already agree with the next part of is is is there a place for sharing and you for the person that's listening to sharing with the person is like affirming their thoughts and feelings expressing understanding of their thoughts and feelings and if you had a similar experience to say you're here usual the things of help me when I was going through a similar thing. It might or might not be helpful to you. But you know you're throwing out an idea that you found helpful. You're also assuring Scripture that you have to avoid the finger preaching nor preach to a friend. You know you go. Snap out of it. As God said Scripture down. There's been meaningful to you but might be meaningful to them insured in a loving timeline out of the preacher's wife and I would say to you if you're the one that needs to share this with somebody is to know to set the tone of the conversation because there are times I need my friend to preach to me and that's what I'm asking for say that we got not be afraid to ask that too late. Do you want me to give you my thoughts or do you need me just to listen like that as a career question Alice's girlfriends you know I just think sometimes we don't set the expectations of the conversations were disappointed. But if we if we say hey I really just need you to listen. I don't need you to say anything and then afterwards you might be curious like what you think you but I think sometimes we have to set those guardrails up so were not disappointed. You wrote in the book that we don't simply need our spiraling talks to stop. We need arm to be redeemed. What is it look like what once you've got to take him a full captive work.

Remember redemption of the mind yeah well it's a very mysterious term and in the Scriptures that talks about the we been given.

If you're a follower of Jesus Christ, you can get in the mind of Christ. It's input into its very ancient you. It's a very interesting phrase and and the phrase is I think an already and not yet statement a lot of the Scripture is that way that that you know we've been made righteous in Christ, your holy people set apart. It's like, well, not so much. We have a lot of work to do.

So I think there's an already in a sense of that. We been given the power to have the mind of Christ that he's given us a choice and that choice is ours daily and were never completely defeated and entangled in bondage to sin anymore that the doors been unlocked and it's our choice to walk out, minus mental illness and end the physical fall right and so so when I when I think of that door being open and being able to walk out.

That's the difference right and in the person that has the mind of Christ. Now do we do it and I think that's that the practice of discipline over time, and I think that's where interrupting the spiral as a first step, but what were really looking for is a new way to think and the only way I found that actually comforts every single problem is the way of Christ. I don't have again.FYI, don't ever call myself a self-help author in the self-help is taking you to Jesus because I don't really have like another great answer like I am not to be there when it says your awesome, in fact, I'll tell you, you know your center and I think what we need is the hope of forever and and the only hope for death is is not so, I just think that the new mind is a mindset on the things above. It's fixed on a hope that transcends our circumstances and I think that's actually what were all craving and Scripture says that eternity was set in Ecclesiastes. It says eternity was set in our hearts that we were. We long for.

Whether or not we know minimally think about that very often or not there is a longing in us for a hope that transcends our circumstances and I think you know that the only hope I have all the prayers pray for many, many, many years ago when the older gentleman said to me, this was in the early days of the Billy Graham ministry who said you know what I pray for Billy Graham or pray that God will keep his heart never forgot that it became a prayer that I pray for myself, you know, Lord, keep my heart in my heart I mean the real millionaire. You know, because it's not just us. We can't just think our way through to well-being. The results are really important. But it's it's bringing those thoughts to God asking him to direct them so one more thing in the book of you so that we are. We all have a contagious mind that our minds are contagious accordingly.

Mother is a positive or negative. I think it's both right. I think how we think influences the culture of every space we touch every relationship we have and so I think it's both and I hope for everybody listening right now is that even if you are not motivated for yourself to be free, that you would look at the people you love and you would want to model a free mind that isn't entangled with strongholds and sometimes that's what motivates us.

If I look at my kids and somebody told me the greatest way for your kids to believe in God and to like him and to love him and to believe in themselves and like themselves and love themselves is for you to do that in the model I would be very motivated to make sure that my mind liked and love God and like and left myself and I think that is is sometimes what what we needed the kick in the pants. It is less about what we say to people and more about how we live for people and how you live is a direct correlation to how you think, unfortunately, but also fortunately because God wants you to be free to you know it's not just for your kids and it's not just for your friends or your spouse. It's for you. He wants you to be free to submit a first learning conversation. I know that those who are listening from it. So, certainly, and I really would encourage your listeners to read this book. I think it think it would build on what you heard today, so thanks for being with us and thanks for the ministry that you have loans or ladies as well for thanks for having me start building those cities of positivity in my brain will apply to more about a source get out of your head, stopping the spiral of toxic thoughts, five lovely just got five love languages.the next week. Your questions and comments about interrelationships are post-Thanksgiving dear Gary coming up next week. Thanks today to our production teams with Janice Todd building relationship with Dr. Gary Chapman's production of the radio in association with Moody publishers a ministry of violence.

Thanks