Yours Till Heaven - Ray Rhodes

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He holds theological degrees from New Orleans Baptist theological seminary, the Southern Baptist theological seminary is married to Lori they have daughters, four grandchildren and his doctoral thesis.

We talked about this last time focused on the marriage and spirituality of Charles and Susanna Spurgeon's book is our featured resource today. Yours, till heaven. The untold love story of Charles and Susie Spurgeon. You can find out more at 5lovelanguages.com welcome back to Building Relationships will thank you Dr. Chapman forever me back on. It's a pleasure well, you know, people of my generation think at least the Christians whose only reading it all know Charles Spurgeon but younger generation out there and maybe doesn't know very much about them so want to set the stage by telling us who were these people. Charles Haddon Spurgeon and Susanna Spurgeon. Susanna Spurgeon's was 2 1/2 years older than Charles. She was born in 1832 in London and all of her life in the city except for some excursions to Paris so she is a city girl.

Spurgeon was born in 1834 and he was born in the country of England, small-town small villages more rural life.

There and he lived until 1892 Susie died in 1903. Most of their lives really all their lives occurred during the Victorian era. Queen Victoria came to the throne at 18 in 1837 and she done in 1901 course Charles Spurgeon became the most famous preacher in the world still one of the best-known preachers Christian leaders in all of Christian history Susie Spurgeon was pretty much behind-the-scenes. Her life was much more of a mystery until she met Charles Spurgeon and after meeting him.

That's what we uncovered in our research more about her fascinating life as well.

They were married for 36 years, from 18 3618. She's making 56 until Charles's death in 1892. So why are these two people captivated you so much that you dug into this and dug into the history of all this. Well, you know, many, many of us pastors so we have left Spurgeon for much of our ministry really is about as long as I've known about Charles.

Charles Spurgeon became fascinated with him as a preacher as a writer as a Christian leader and again nothing one of the most famous Christians in all of post-New Testament history so started studying him and reading biographies about him.

I think maybe in 1990, and continued learning bits and pieces about him and I guess probably 2013 or so I started asking more questions will who and what was the influences behind Charles Spurgeon's life. What was his home life, like who was his wife. I think many many of us knew that he was married to a girl named Susanna that she was sick for much of their marriage and that she gave away books but beyond that I didn't know much about her and the more I started studying her life and their lives together, the more fascinated I became will behind the prince of preachers was also a great lover and a great lover of one woman for all of his life and she loved him devotedly as well so she's she's a fascinating woman. He's a fascinating man in their marriage is fascinating for numerous reasons I love so much that we'll talk about today but the romance, the love, the devotion to perseverance, the commitment that they had it it just through muscle movement. Is it still makes me to tears. Often reading about them and and there's still so much more to learn. Now, you mentioned that though they live the course. In the 1800s, mainly in the Victorian era. What what really was going on during those years, and in the general culture yeah maybe Charles Dickens's tell two cities is a good way to describe Victorian culture.

It was the best of times it was the worst of times. It was a time of great progress and growth and with that that progress and growth of people flooded into London and created all sorts of challenges for the culture. There were many many orphans of prostitution was high that air quality was was awful. Sometimes folks would be burning their lights throughout the day.

It would be the fog and the smog in the dirty air from London would create such darkness, so there was that there was poverty there times of great financial booms and losses but also as a time of great progress.

London is the greatest city in the world at that time and with the revolution brought about money and progress in creativity and a lot of that was symbolized I think by the building of the Crystal Palace first in 1851 Heights Park, and then later rebuilt in 1854 in South London and it house the great inventions and stories of the progress of of London in England. Also around the world.

So yeah, was that it was the best of times it was the worst of times you mention the acclimate dimming the smog and all of that were still talking about that. Narcotics: I don't go there and I just so what what was that what was her courtship like in the in the 1800 and what role did their faith play in the early stages of the relationship. Yeah that courtship in some way seems a bit different from Victorian courtship.

Typically, as I understand it, a young lady would have a coming out indicating that she was ready to be courted and that will be probably for the higher middle-class and upper-class girls in the middle of lower middle-class girls would be to be as simple as the way they wore their hair or a type of dress that they would where there's really no indication of any of that. Susanna Spurgeon was an attendee at the New Park St., Chapel when Charles Spurgeon first preached there in 1853 as is up talk about in both books says she was unimpressed with him and she was struggling with her own spiritual so this can identify with that. She was really struggling spiritually. She had been converted maybe about a year and she would trim.

She described herself as being backslidden and dad could not really appreciate Spurgeon's ministry was just preaching as a guest preacher but is at the church in London but the church was really taken by him and by April they invited him to become their pastor and Susie, who had also begun confiding in him. Her spiritual struggle. So they got to know one another really owned by studying biblical issues and looking at spiritual growth and talking about conversion and the fruit of salvation. Those sorts of things, but sometime between would say April 1854 and Jean 1854 suggest a period of a few months. Charles became really enamored with her.

She didn't really know his feelings.

He seemed to conceal that is in heat, he did know for certain.

Her feelings either. But in June 1856, with the grand reopening of the Crystal Palace. He opened the book of poetry and pointed to a section on marriage any healings over whispers in her ear asked her. She prays for the man that is to be her husband. So they're both attending this grand reopening with church, other church members. Just a church group going to know that that's what Susie thought Charles had other ideas and by the end of that evening. She describes herself as really being in love with this man and her heart beating her face is flushed and there courtship was really pretty simple.

Charles would go over to her home after their they were engaged two months later, so the meeting in June at the Crystal Palace engaged by August so her hard to change dramatically since her first meeting of Charles with Charles. They were engaged in August he would go over to her home on Monday nights and edit his sermon from that had been preached and taken down in shorthand on Sunday and it will be published every week and so she was sit there pretty quietly.

He gave her job to do well on at least one occasion he handed her the sum of the works of Thomas Brooks, the Puritan asked her to go through those and pull us in great quotes and as a result, a book came out of that smooth stones taken from ancient Brooks. I play on the name Susie was a part of that. Her name is not on it was not on the book then nor now, but she says there's a tender love story through that process and then they would meet once a week at the Crystal Palace St., Spurgeon would leave church. Susie would walk over to the Crystal Palace that made at the crystal fountain and they would walk around for couple of hours and just have some time of leisure and getting to know one another so that was essentially there courtship that and Susie and attending the Metropolitan the New Park St., Chapel initially later will be named the Metropolitan Tabernacle and so their love grew and developed and eventually Charles would baptize her before they were married right, you talked a little bit about their courtship and in what was going on with them and that, their love story but was there an emphasis in their day of finding the right one. I've gotta find the right one to complete me your to do note that that fits exactly what any idea about that. I have not seen anything that would suggest that in general in Victorian times, specifically with Charles and Susie, nothing at all like that that I found to take a broad view they own their lives and give us some marriage lessons for today that we might learn from their relationship. Back in the 1800s think the most moving one of the most moving things about their relationship that I need to learn from is the way they talk to one another. Their communication was a course like all of us. There's just utilitarian conversation with things that need to be taken care of, but their communication was very tender. It was thoughtful. This kind and it was often very romantic.

Reading the love letters of Spurgeon just struck by how the prince of preachers could speak so romantically about his wife to others but to her specifically in the love letters that he wrote so communication good communication is a pastor. I know you guys know this very well. Also in your ministry. Communication is soft issues that couples come to me to discuss in their own marriage so we can learn much out right at the entire chapter on community creation and this in the book, but perseverance also. They didn't quit. They didn't quit on the Lord in his work and they didn't quit on one another to some very hard times very hard time say they persevered through trial and they said they both sacrificed. I think Susie's level of sacrifice is really stunning to me and it's not yet even in my works not fully grasp the level of sacrifice that she made to keep their marriage going to support her husband as she did, but they also envision for their marriage they they they had no concept of of not being married, and they also had a vision that after their deaths that they would be together and have an honest husband and wife. Jesus said there's no marriage in heaven. With that they would love one another really for the first time perfectly around the throne of God and together with the saints of the ages they would praise God so that there that eternal vision really pull them forward in their marriage through through many challenges, but if I was I one thing only their faith, their spirituality, there their commitment to prayer and Bible study that was foundational fundamental and then from that sprung these other things especially. I think the way they talk to one another. You think their lives were a lot different from ours. You know here in the modern world, communication, travel, and all this stuff, but where their lives really that different Dr. Chapman.

I don't think so. Coarsening not most of us are Charles Spurgeon and we don't have the sort of fame and in all the things that can next to him just pulling some of that away the nuts and bolts of their loss are very similar to ours. They're both busy.

They were parents. They had to many many bouts long bouts with sickness, affliction Spurgeon struggle with depression. Susie with loneliness and anxiety especially over him being gone so they they have many of the same challenges that that we known early in their marriage they have financial challenges as well. As they were trying to work together to support the ministry to help fund the education for young pastors who didn't have the funds himself, they they sacrifice their budget so they knew about financial difficulties. They knew about marriage through suffering than you about the challenges of parenting and and separation due to work issues. So in many ways you there's and there's nothing new under the sun, and so is true in marriage, they experience the same sorts of things that we do and I think a lot of our listeners can identify with all those things is on OGR hello been together that night in your research. There must've been a few things along the way about the Spurgeon's that might really have surprised you the something come to mind again.

I think I not write about this early in the book how Spurgeon many descriptors have been placed on Charles Spurgeon over the years, the Prince of preachers is probably most familiar want to hear your listeners. He's been called the last of the Puritans.

Many great titles so lofty titles placed upon Spurgeon by biographers and others, but I think that we can put a new title on Spurgeon that fits.

And that is Spurgeon was the great lover and he was the great lover of Susie. We don't tend to think about our Christian heroes so much like that. I think a lot of times we know hardly anything about their marriages and about their their spouses, but with Charles Spurgeon he he was the great lover. Maybe that's a book titled Spurgeon the Prince of preachers, the Prince of lovers, but their romance was really surprising to me, in spite of the fact that he was gone from home so often you early in their marriage. She's preaching 10 or 12 times a week, in various places. Sometimes you travel with them but often she could not, so sweetness in their romance that the tenderness the affection.

Maybe we tend to think of our heroes, whether it's a Martin Luther or George Whitfield or John Wesley. Remember, we tend to think of them as soon so larger-than-life that they didn't really have much of a of a romance.

In some cases, some of our heroes didn't.

But Spurgeon surpasses them all think he and Susie so there romance in the way they sprinkle that with with laughter.

They had a lot of fun together and Spurgeon since of humor was large and could laugh and could cause anyone around him to start laughing as well so I would say the most surprising thing is the degree in the intimacy and the sweetness of their romance and laughter would be good for all of us pastors if we demand a laugh. What may be our best spouse and our family would laugh more as well. Now both Charles and Susie, as you mentioned earlier that was some major health concerns in the course of their lives.

How did they handle they handle it. They were spiritual people and by that I mean biblical spirituality chosen Susie individually read the Scriptures every day. Susie read through the Bible every year. I one juncture she was discussing Bible reading with some of Spurgeon students at that time she had read through the Bible 14 times over the course of her life once a year. Three chapters a day and beyond that, she meditated on the Scripture so she loved taking just a small section of verse three and a part of the verse and turning it over in her mind and thinking about it and can and pondering it contemplating it.

Charles did that a lot as well so they read the Scripture individually and every day family worship happened in the Spurgeon home, typically twice a day once Charles was gone. Susie lead that and as this is their sons. They had twin sons in 1856, the sons would help lead that and everyone in their household participated.

So if you are visiting the Spurgeon's insert this the time of family worship every day you would gather with them their household employees. They had a number of those of Spurgeon's ministry grew and responsibilities grew they all gathered Spurgeon treat all of those as family members so they read the Bible. They had family worship. They prayed individually, and they prayed together and the church was just essential being connected to the local church and and how important that was to their their lives and they supported one another Susie for the first 12 years she could offer her full support and her energy really to encouraging Charles praying with him when he would be suffering bouts of depression. She would read to him when and then later when she suffering so much, as Spurgeon and he did this really all of this marriage legislator. He he.

It was common for Spurgeon to go over to her, put his arm around her and pray for her.

So I don't think that they and I don't think we will make it unless we are grounded in the word and were seeking God in prayer and we're singing the hands they love to sing hymns together with her family and that we are connected to the local church so spirituality was just vital to Charles and Susie was in their bloodstream and beyond that just from that, I should say their devotion to one another was total unreserved unqualified unhesitating compare their commitment to one another so they were not going to let one another go in the midst of hard times so sounds like that and their handling of the illnesses that depression and physical illnesses and really it was God in their relationship with God that brought them through all of that. That's why they they both had a vibrant and growing relationship with Jesus Christ and you cannot you cannot read any of Charles's writings, or any of Susie's writings without seeing something of the beauty of Jesus and the glory of the gospel of Christ was their center and everything else revolved around him as their center.

Is there any evidence of conflict in their relationship and if so, how they dealt with it. There's there's so there's not any evidence that I found of any serious conflict early in their relationship during their engagement. Spurgeon forgot her own one evening they walked to the church to the building together where he was going to be preaching.

He just simply forgot about her so focused will see on his own. His ministry as he is about to engage in and she left upset ran home to her mother and Spurgeon after his Oliver realized what he had done had that sinking feeling in his gut that many of us guys that we know we've done something really down and that's that's the way Charles fell. He also ran home to her mother's mother's well and thankfully she had a very wise mother who brought them together else there engagement could have been in trouble. The Susie was deeply distraught and felt greatly offended by that, but later they laughed about that and the only you know there's a funny disagreement. Maybe in their marriage that was not really a source of great strife, but Charles did not believe in using instruments in congregational worship.

He thought the human voice was the instrument and we should use it and it only he was not dogmatic about that when a priest in other churches. Sometimes he would poke fun at the pastors and all in good fun, but Susie later in life. Susie donated, even while Charles was still alive. She donated an organ to a church for the help, to help them in their congregational worship and then after he died she did the same thing again. She just insisted that it only be used for congregational worship and not used for any other sort of entertainment purposes, so maybe they disagree over the use of instruments and worship, of course, there there conflict was, is, was and is not a striking point in their marriage.

They seem to does and they didn't happen. I'm sure that it did happen. Had a couple tell me one time they been married near 40 years and never had an argument and thought wow half met my first space aliens that sure the children. Susie had disagreements but maybe the Victorian era That sort of buttoned up and that ensure this. Thanks for joining us today for Building Relationships with Dr. Gary Chapman, our guest today is Ray Rhodes Junior author at your still having the untold love story of Charles and Susie Spurgeon. You can find out more at ourwebsitefindlovelanguages.com Susie contributed greatly to Charles's preaching ministry. Tell us about that. Yes Charles read all the time you read six substantive books a week plus is Bible reading. So he was constantly studying. He was a student of nature and all the rest, and they walked together, and they point out things that they saw in a bird or flour or their cows that they had horses that they had those sorts of things all Saturday evening at his specific time they entertained guest for much of the day. Most most Saturdays. Spurgeon will say goodbye to his guest and he would go to a study and shut his door and he would begin his intense sermon preparation for Sunday for the Lord's day, and after a while after the guests were all grown and he was engaged in study he would call Susie in and he was a Susie come and read to me from some commentaries and he would tell her to go to the shelf so-and-so book 3, paragraph nine, he knew his books. He had a wonderful memory and she would read commentaries to him and other books that brought some light upon the passage and that was pretty frequent in his ministry. I did tell one story in the book of how he went to bed one Saturday evening a just couldn't get the meaning of a particular passage he had studied he worked. He he was upset that he was not going to have his sermon as he wanted on Sunday and season go to bed and I'll wake you up early after a night of sleep. Your mind will be fresh.

Olivia completed and the morning will strange thing happened.

Spurgeon went to bed fell asleep and Susie heard him talking in his sleep as so she woke up and she realized what he was doing he was expounding the passage that he had been studying that Saturday night and she took careful note of that so much she said was such a wonderful sermon she heard in his sleep had to.

The next morning, she didn't wake him up early and when he woke up on it is normal time. He was a bit bothered.

She said don't worry about it. I've got a gift for you and she gave him his sermon in his sleep and he preached at that morning and was delighted. It has never had a family that I never experienced the know the title of your book is years, till heaven awarded that title come from December 1855, Charles was about to get on the train and head out of London to Colchester.

That's where his parents were.

He said his goodbyes to Susie. They were just a few weeks from their wedding day in Jan January 8 so he says goodbye to Susie that the train lunges forward and and Spurgeon pulls out his dip pan and has his Inc. and he begins doing what he did all of their relationship, writing her a love letter he wrote her every day that he was separated from her every day and on days when he could lift his arms because of gout later in life he dictated the letter so she got a letter from her husband. Essentially, every day of their marriage.

But here on the eve of their their wedding. He writes this letter, and he signs it and he signs it. Yours, till heaven and then so that the way he signed that became any signed other letter similarly to that later on so that became our book title and later in the book. I describe what he means by and then so yours exclusively yours Susie of till death do us part and and I go to heaven or you go to heaven first and then and then was his eternal vision that we spoke of earlier.

And then I will love you perfectly. In heaven we will love one another perfectly in and having around the throne of God.

That's powerful. It's hard to believe that he wrote her a letter every day that he was away from her.

That's pretty impressive I said is you imagine doing with the DIP financing that even though a fountain pen was available.

He he, like dipping and writing. I think it helped him to be more thoughtful perhaps yeah & the problem of the sun and I'm also grateful for telephones in the FaceTime right is much the day easier to read or write as much letters that the but I think you know C you've got them the look back on some well tell us about the Surrey Gardens musical Hall disaster, and how did this affect Spurgeon's ministry and and his marriage has a Charles and Susie married in January 1856, the music Hall disaster happened in late October 1856. They've only been married a year and Susie had recently given birth to twin sons.

The only children should be able to have. They would be able to have throughout their marriage, so she was at home recovering nearly yellow young in their marriage you parents. Spurgeon leaves to go preach at the music Hall. He's there because the attention he is getting everywhere is unbelievable. Folks are flocking to hear him their church building will not hold the people so they were that this music Hall in the very first evening that he is to preach their breaches at his church in the morning because of the music Hall in the evening and the SE's preaching some mischief makers command and yell fire fire. There's 10,000 people packed inside another 10,000 estimated outside morning to get an and so this so these mischief makers crying out fire cause great chaos people panicked, they began trying to storm out of the building. They trampled seven people were trampled to death almost 30 people hospitalized the horror stories from that night. The papers are full of them. If you go back and look at smoke some of the old papers. This horror stories of things that were happening and so Spurgeon really couldn't see from where he was exactly what was happening, but once he sort of figured it out. He collapsed and they had to carry him out of the building. 11 newspaper reported that he had died that night. He didn't die, but something died in him. I think that affected him the rest of his his life believe he already struggle with depression. The depression intensified and became darker at times he was overall very joyful happy man. He would he would fall into these times of great depression and some memory or some something could happen.

That reminded him of the music Hall and is almost like a post traumatic stress disorder that's well that's sort of like an and I think Spurgeon had something like that certain events could trigger that. So it would lead to the same Susie would find him at times weeping, and he didn't know why he was weeping. He was just so overwhelmed with sadness. He said there was this dungeons below the, the, a dungeon of despair's. He looked at John Bunyan's Pilgrim's progress.

So it was it was a sad time that he had many sad times but again he a fault that would by faith in joy and he loved being with people in prayer and all the rest, and they did that together.

Thankfully, Susie does not seem to have suffered with depression. Though she was anxious at times, so she was able to really support him during those very dark seasons in his life. What you think.

The preachers of today can who have experienced trauma and in their journey.

"What can we learn from his experiences this yeah I think using that God's ordinary means of grace. The Scripture and prayer and Congregational life drawing near to people really working hard not to pull away and in others around us that seeing us knowing something of our situation.

Drawing year to us but that we can learn from Spurgeon that you know we don't we don't give up.

We keep pressing into Jesus not pulling away from him. That's what Spurgeon did he. He pressed into Christ.

A pressed into his relationship with Susie and that sustained MVA wasn't a mere it merely just sort of getting by every day was thriving, but when those dark times, he he knew he needed help he needed God's help he needed the help of his wife, Annie needed the help of his friends and Spurgeon really didn't like being alone with.

He was happy or sad. He wanted people with them. He enjoyed companionship and is pastor.

Sometimes we we can be very isolated even longer with the crowd.

We we need intimate friendships and intimate relationships that we can that do offer support to us in ways that we can be supportive of others, and I think a lot of pastors failed to understand the importance of that and I we tend to withdraw when we are under stress, rather than reaching out and allowing people into our lives so again about Susanna Spurgeon. What is it that makes her what many of said one of the Christian history's greatest women. Yeah we we tend to think of her know again coming into existence almost upon her marriage to Charles Spurgeon and course is just Neo is using our imaginations to imagine what they would've been like married to someone else. Maybe we would know less of Charles Spurgeon. They do not know anything about Susanna Spurgeon. Susanna Spurgeon was a godly woman in her own right. In the course. The Lord used her circumstance. He used her husband to as a part of that part of her sanctification and growth in Christ just as he used her in Charles's life, but I think one of the things that makes her such a remarkable and fascinating and great woman was that she found life beyond her own immediate circumstances. She had a large view of life and ministry. Life was not all about her. It was how can we best get the gospel out so she was willing to sacrifice time, energy, money, even even time with her husband to support the extension of the gospel and and the sacrifice was no small matter again after 12 years after the after they were married 1618 69.

She's essentially an invalid for most of the rest of their marriage almost never able to go anywhere with them, not even to church and yet she says that you know she encourages him. I won't you to fulfill your ministry, and Charles never worried that he had better wife at home that she was begrudging him in any way that she was sulking just the opposite of one particular occasion he was at an event and that she was sick when he left he always left her well attended.

She was not sick along she was attended but he got word that she was had taken a turn for the worse and it it appeared she was going to die and somehow Susie was able to get a telegram to him.

Do not come home you continue your ministry and essentially I'm in God's hands. God is sovereign, we can trust God here know Spurgeon did state that we can do it we can we can have a debate over whether he should have stayed away. They should've come home anyway.

I understand that but it's just remarkable to me that that when she had that ability to focus when it appeared she may be dying. This is long before her death, and thus the way she lived. It was not easy as she talked about being lonely she would hear noises at home and not just like any other persons. Charles is not there. She's she gets a little bit nervous about that. She's concerned about his health and sheet you can read that into her letters that she wrote is not that she was this woman of steel. She was a woman of real faith in real commitment and she willingly sacrificed so much so that Charles Spurgeon could be the man that he was and I've said this many times. I believe it to be true in the in the depths of my heart. We don't have Charles Spurgeon as we have him today. The 63 volumes of sermons. The hundred and 35 books, the though large legacy that he left behind. We don't have any of that. I don't believe without his wife Susie and then all the while she's doing things like writing her own books. She writes of five stand-alone books. She's the coeditor of his massive four volume biography.

She starts a church after his death is just remarkable to me what she does in poor health and even when she is elderly herself now but her commitment. When the wife's commitment is to God and sees God's support now have him. A man hit. This makes it a lot easier for pastor or preacher of any kind is amazing. So tell us a little bit about the formation of Spurgeon's pastors college and the role that he played in it, and the role that she may played and played and it is early on in Spurgeon's ministry in London. He had a desire to help poor pastors any he really up to two objectives in this one. Some pastors some guys who felt called to the ministry just did not have money to attend any of the.

The formal institutions of the land and also Spurgeon was concerned about the doctrine of some of the places were pastor's otherwise might go to be trained so he wanted to start a school that would benefit poor pastors are pastors who can afford much more traditional educational routes of the traditional Bible college or seminary, setting but he also wanted to have a college that was doctrinally sound and faithful and the men there all came believing in would leave believing it was his goal. As their education grew, so did their commitment to the authority and inerrancy and sufficiency of God's word, and so Susie early in their marriage. She actually became known as the mother of the college.

I think some of the students put that descriptor on her. The mother of the college and so is as we mentioned, she sacrifice the family budget to help support the students they open their home they would greet students on a lot of times on Saturdays. They had a place that they on their property where they would sit outside during nice weather and Spurgeon, we just answer questions from the students and sometimes Susie would answer questions and they just take care love Don and supported and encouraged the students and many of the students. Spurgeon sent out to start churches adjust numerous numerous churches across England and London were planted as a result of Spurgeon's College in Spurgeon's desire to see the church grow. So they both were essential to that to that work course had a tremendous ministry in terms of even today there is a reading of the things that went on their now Spurgeon was a gifted teacher, preacher, no question about that, but he was also challenging person. Most of us are in some way or another.

In what ways was a, you know, let's say difficult to be married to the event. I mentioned earlier we forgot Susie that's something that actually plagued him and various times in their marriage. He would be so focused that he could lose sense of what was going on around him. An example of that is in others, and at least one occasion, I think it happened multiple times when he was about to preach on Sunday morning. Susie would come into his study. There and he would stand up and extended his hand to greet her as if she was a visitor to the church meeting her for the first time so he was just absorbed in what he was doing ministry wise and so that that happen. And of course, though the long separations as his own health deteriorated really the last 20 years of their marriage. Spurgeon is traveling usually three months of the year just for health recovery is doctor prescribed warmer weather for him. Her doctor prescribed that she could not leave so she could not travel with them. So there separated beyond his preaching times there separated sometimes three months a year for maybe 20 years of their marriage just Spurgeon trying to survive physically and he would go off to the south of France, and he would come back better and stronger in his ministry would take off again, but he was a war ending.

I guess we could say was a workaholic heat he worked all the time. There was no well not all the time he worked a lot and the times the demands on his time great. He told one of his biographers G. Holden Pike that he seldom has a moment to claim us his own in a very sort of interesting saying he he points to his garden and he tells Pike, but I have my garden and God delights to let me have moments of peace in my garden so Spurgeon is working a lot know the good thing is when he's at home is working at home and Susie is there with him and as I mentioned she's helping him that he will.

He works a lot.

He's away a lot, and he's distracted in his work a lot as well and so I guess the sum of those things into thinking you're mad at me. I can't bet that you can imagine sort of using our our imagination a bit.

Susie being married to one of the most famous tour ends not only in England but also one of those famous people in the world. This is ministry grew. He's also been called not only one of the most important Victorians easement: the most important people in all the world so everywhere he goes.

There's people flocking to see him. There's people wanting to visit him in his home. There's folks sending them him their books to endorse. Ask if he will endorse their books. Everybody wants Spurgeon's name what they're doing instant bestseller aviation urgent so just so many demands on him and that that had to be taxing on both Spurgeon but also on Susie and their marriage. You think he was fully supportive of her and her gifts in her role as she was of him yes I do and I see that pretty early in their marriage of me. He he saw that Susie's his own struggles. He believed one of the great remedies for that was service and he encouraged her. I think he saw some of her gifts and talents early only having her participate in this book that he puts together, and then in 1875. He hands her a copy.

Manuscript of the first volume of his lectures to my students and asked to read it and she does she's I wish we give every pastor in England. A copy of this in a civil Susie want to make that happen and she was a bit taken aback by that. But she accepted the challenge and what Spurgeon was doing. There's one though she was sick he believed it would be it would be comforting to her. He would be encouraging to her to be a part of something like this and he saw gifts and that is what she would write a piece for his monthly magazine called the sword and the trowel she would give him a report of the book funds of the book fun. Started as a result of that, she ultimately gave away 200,000 books before she died in 1903. She would write these reports to be included in his magazine and she would say you call should call Spurgeon her editor. Oh my editor to read this and anything that you see in and Spurgeon would often send it back and say is perfect as it is. I love it so he he would help her in areas in which she needed help, but he encouraged her and that he encouraged her in her writing. He encouraged Turner service to the poor pastors. Both of them had such a burden for poor pastors and invested in them. So he was. He was very, very much.

He treated her as his equal value her opinion he asked for her opinion. He respected her and Victoria in the Victorian era coming. Women were not yet coming along this as quickly as we say. Maybe in our day and time and they were often treated as second-class citizens in fat when they got married they they lost all rights to anything they completely came under the control of their husbands and and of course that was true in Spurgeon's marriage but she was under the leadership of the very kind and gentle and tender husband who respected her intellectually and emotionally in every other way and that's one reason I think their marriage flourishes. He did support her and did respect her already.

This is been a fascinating conversation and I know that many of our listeners are going to want to get this book and read it because there is so much we can talk about the day had to get around to that but thank you for being with us today and that I continue in your ministry and in my God continue to use you and your wife will thank you Dr. Chapman for having me on again. Blessings to you and your staff.

There thinking when encouraging our amazing couple and one read more five love languages.com to find out about yours, till heaven. The untold love story of Charles and Susie Spurgeon book written by our guest railroads Junior can go to five love languages.com and next week will go to the front lines and learn about the lives of persecuted believers when faith is forbidden in one week Olympic thank you to Steve Lincoln Janice Todd in their work time. Thank you for joining us today building relationship. Dr. Gary Chapman's reaction on the radio and I ministry and I believe