Yes, You Really Can Change - Chip Ingram

You want to change.

You try hard to change but you just can't.

Is there any hope Gary one of the big things people think is the focus on their behavior were on their emotions. That's not where change happens change always begins with the truth but then it begins with how you think it's the renewing of your mind for real change happens from inside the building relationship with Dr. Gary Read the New York Times bestseller "The 5 Love Languages" today teaching pastor and no living on the edge help and hope. If you've tried and failed at changing your behavior. Yes, you really can is her future resource. Five love languages subtitle what to do spiritually stock Gary, I think that describes a lot of people who have tried and tried to kick some bad habit and they've given up hope of ever change their married to someone who has tried and tried and tried to kick the habit, but they're not been successful in the spouse's number of targets you know you people tell me you're trying I can't see much evidence of it so excited about this topic today was me Chip Ingram. He is teaching pastor and CEO of living on the edge pastor for more than 30 years. He's the author of a lot of books. His wife Teresa have four grown children, 12 grandchildren, you find out more about him in the book. Yes, you really can change five love languages.com welcome to Building Relationships. It is great to be with you all.

Thanks so much. You begin with a story about Bobby who came up to you after service. Once on to tell us about him one of those very unique experiences. He was a young guy, late 20s pretty successful had prayed to receive Christ, maybe seven, eight months earlier, lived out of town and so about once every three or four weeks or he would come visit the church and he got involved in a church of men's groups meet all the things that you would say this guys making great progress and I so I'm walking down the aisle right after I'd spoken this.

It happened multiple times. He's was going up to three questions when you talk a little bit probably connect later by phone and he walks up to me and with a big smile goes. Hey, I just really want to thank you for all the help you've been to me these almost a year.

I spoke great Bobby, it's fantastic.

He said I got to tell you that you know now that I'm a Christian I'm in men's group I'm in God's word and not doing the things you're talking about but I still have some struggles I got some problems at work and everything is perfect with my girlfriend so this just isn't working for me and I said what yeah this Christianity is just is not working for me.

So what you mean just what I said I thank you so much. I think I believe in God but I just don't think everything's not the way I want to be. So I'm quitting.

I tried to send another you understand this is normal to progress its growth, etc. and he smiled, shook my hand, gave me a hug and said I'll see you later, and there was no meat that was in an and Gary, I think the thing that hit me was no one had ever been that direct that I think there's a lot of people if you ask him is your faith or Christianity. Your relationship with Jesus working for you in terms of your perspective. I think a lot of people would quietly say no, not really think you're I think you're right Chip, you know, we just assume that because people are involved in the Christian things related to the church. For example, that there there really walking with God and sometimes this is not the case. There's, progression of people who are trying hard to change things to be different and they look good for a while and then I fail and, eventually, does that lead to this sort of morning just to give up her yet. I think it's twofold.

Gary, I think one especially maybe with all the prosperity teaching. That's crept into all churches not just maybe ones that are like you know the name it and claim it or those sort of things I think there is an expectation that somehow if you do sort of the spiritual activities I mean everything should be up into the right you know right relationships upwardly mobile. Never have problems never have a down day and then I think the progression you see with many people is you know I love that I was talking to a galaxy because you know I was really trying to muscle through the Christian life. In other words, I don't feel like praying that I'm gonna pray I don't want to really weed by not and so I think there's a lack of understanding of how life change really occurs in some of the outward things maybe change pretty quickly, but the insecurities the greed the comparison this deep inner things that God wants to change the try hard and fail try harder and fail and then I I watch it pretty significant group of people that just basically stopped trying quite so hard and just make it and live with this quiet silence of you know, maybe as much energy going into appear like a good Christian, as opposed to really experience you become like were talking about. What does your story trip because you you can experience this yourself right. Yeah, I really did it was. I came up around the group that was I mean super helpful in one of their great strengths with the disciplines and I didn't grow up in a church that didn't teach the gospel came to Christ at 18 and had this amazing joy and no one ever told me anything, but they gave me the New Testament was pretty easy to read. I read it in the morning read it night and got to change my life.

I just had just my desires change my joy changed and I went away to school in. I met a really good Christian group and they super help me like your son. Have a quiet time and then here's how to memorize Scripture than actually should be in a Bible study night did all those things and being pretty desperately insecure in a people pleaser and not being aware of all that, I don't think it was conscious Gary but it was like you know that the people that really get the strokes around here memorize a lot of verses go to Bible study, share their faith and I didn't know what it meant to be legalistic, but it took me maybe about 2 1/2 years to pray for an hour every day. Memorize hundreds of verses.

Whole chapters being a Bible study leader, Bible study, and I literally became a Pharisee and a self-righteous jerk and my joy was gone and I felt like a had an extra job. You know I was going to college and playing basketball is like oh my gosh I gotta pray for an hour. I could read and the life.

The joy, the supernatural transformation, literally evaporated and I know I I had a brief experience that jolted me out of it. I have time to tell a quick story. I'm thinking I'm being as committed as I've ever been in God must be really pleased.

In my senior year I bumped into a coed and that we were good friends.

No dating relationship I like.

Currently she used to like me and we bumped into each other right in the middle of cold quadrangle and we talked a little bit and she said something I quoted diverse and she paused, tilted her head and looked back. She casino chip I met you and you are a freshman in you were a really neat guy. You are just so fun to be around and you had such joy and I remember thinking now I'm not a Christian, but if I ever wanted to be Lot 1.

I think I'd like to be like you. She said I don't know what happened to you, but now every time I'm around you I feel like I'm less than like I don't measure up like God and you are down on me and if you are, what it means to be a mature Christian. I know one thing for sure I would never want to be one and then she walked away.

That was a wake-up call.

Well, that would wake up anyone here the rest of the story later on. Okay absolutely worry went from there about why what you think it is that so many Christians experience failure and end in failure in the try hard and they fail again and again and I think maybe two or three different reasons. I think one is spiritual ignorance I mean is, all the best of intentions that this group had in discipling me.

Their focus was on my doing, and on my spiritual activity instead of on my identity. Spiritual transformation is about understanding who you are in Christ and whose you are and living out of that. I think the second reason a lot of Christians and I think this is what people are experiencing now after the pandemic is spiritual isolation.

The American mantra that is so deeply embedded that you can do this on your own. It's me and God and my Bible. And even if you're in a group of some kind.

Spiritual transformation scripturally requires in-depth, vulnerable, deep relationships of the heart where we minister to one another and their safety to share your deepest struggles and there's an accountability of people that won't allow you to keep behaving or acting in ways that are harmful to you, and I think that the third one would be simply what I just call spiritual myopia I think the American dream that says are you happy is your life working out for you.

I don't think the average believer realizes that there's so much at stake.

Christian's life who does not change is an oxymoron.

And when you are a believer who is living in a way that discredits the gospel.

The implications of that hypocrisy are I was one of those people who grew up in a church around people who said they were Christians and I completely rejected the Christian faith because their lives were no different than mine.

In fact, they said one thing and live so completely other and so I think on a spiritual isolation, spiritual ignorance and none of this nearsightedness.

This thinking, it's all about me, which I think was Bobby's issue. Candidly, it was no if this doesn't make my life wonderful for me. Why do it as opposed to an oh this is God today on Building Relationships with Dr. Gary Chapman were talking with author and speaker Chip Ingram of living on the edge our featured resources.

The book yes. You really can change you can find out more at 5lovelanguages.com that's five love languages.com trip. Here's a quote from your book quote Jesus did not come to tell you how to be the best version of yourself became to make you new what you mean about it. Well what I mean by that is that I think sort of the self-help industry and some of the prosperity teaching has developed this narcissistic view that Jesus is a means another words, he's my self-help goo room. He's going to help me be. This best version of myself as defined unfortunately by me in the fact of the matter is, is that the gospel says if any man, or if any woman is in Christ, you're a new creation mean it's radical. It's a completely new person and Jesus takes up residence in our life. And he has an agenda for us in the big agenda is to make us like himself, and you know I think this idea that how can Jesus make me a better me as opposed to how can I walk with the living God in the way where he transforms me completely from the inside out where I become more like him. In reality, by nature, we lean toward that. But first, they arrive at first the right of terms of want to be the best person I can be unit will be who I am that that's the natural bit you and I think apart from you. We talked about this a little early.

I think apart from some good teaching. You know it's in the water. It's in the air.

I mean everywhere. It's about letting the self-help industry is a multi-multi billion dollar industry and and I think a lot of that is seeped into the church where as you stated, you know, a Christians goal somehow is to be happy or you speak you know you are the expert on the on the marriage relationship count how many marriages are not working because the big goal is what is in it that I'm to be happy mean, isn't that the whole deal and you help me and my wife realized it's in giving the other person what they need.

That way better than happy you get the supernatural joy here's something I think it's related to that. So what is it mean to live from God's approval rather than for his approval. Well when I shared a little bit about my Scripture memory Bible study sharing high faith.

Down deep.

I think what I was trying to do was earn God's approval. I think there's a lot of believers who intellectually would say how are you saved all I am saved by grace through faith.

You know it's it's it's all what Christ is done for me and then we come to know Jesus personally and we had this new birth and then I think, instead of realizing the same way that you are saved is the same way that you have to walk a switch gets flipped, maybe back into her family of origin you know when you're a good kid to get rewarded more in your ad kid get punished in so I just thought if I memorize lata versus if I do everything God wants me to do and he would love me and when I wasn't doing well he probably doesn't love me and the Scripture teaches the first three chapters of Ephesians.

Give us this really glorious picture that the moment that we are forgiven of our sins and the spirit of Christ enters into our life. We are literally yanked out of the kingdom of darkness were placed in the kingdom of his beloved son were sealed with his spirit were redeemed for wanted were chosen. We have a future. We have a history of were secure and and that he prays at the end of chapter 3. After telling us all new relationship.

This in Christ position and he prays that more than anything else we could grasp the height and the depth and the length and breadth and know the love of Christ and then he says therefore walk in a manner worthy of him and I think living out of. I am already love how do I say thank you. Out of desire out of intimacy. Instead, out of duty and performance that was the night and day experience for me. Gary, I think the same thing is true for any of us that there is appeared in life often, at least when we are converted. We do begin to walk with God. But exactly what you described. You know the Christian life becomes things that we are supposed to be doing and we do them well.

But we don't have a lot of sense of satisfaction out of it and we feel like were not not doing it well enough, whereas in reality. If we allow him simply to work in our lives and point out to us what needs to be done. Give us the power to do it. It's freezing you know it's liberating it's it's not duty it's a it's like a real love relationship you want to do things that's going to enhance the life of the other personal human relationship and so you want to do things that are pleasing to God because of your love for him and your gratitude for what he's done yeah I'm it, we're talking about a huge thing here. It really is gearing up, I think so many people you know listening were saying well I want that to happen in my life, but you know I just feel like I keep doing the same old things and I read my Bible. I don't get anything out of it or maybe even I don't have much desire to read it it it if you don't mind, can I turn the table since you are a little older than me and I know wiser how how did you go from here. There's part of the discipline right. I mean a lot of mornings I don't feel like read my Bible.

A lot of times I don't feel like praying at honestly but it's in choosing to do that out of the I want to love you God speak to me that I experience those breakthroughs. How do we help people gonna make that change from the oughts in the shoulds to the desire go it I don't know that there's one answer one formula for anyone but to what happened to me. I finished the college and I had the sense of you know, man.

I'm ready to go now and I went to Colorado Springs with the navigators and their summer training program about what I learned there was not in this quote spiritual things that idea what owner was in the printshop and O's home was assigned to run a folder the text large sheets of paper like them in a small booklet and they gave me instructions on how to run this folder was okay got it. I worked all day long and couldn't get it to work in the next morning to give me more instructions that I worked all day long commute to work this well Monday Tuesday Wednesday Thursday four full days eight hours a day and I couldn't get it to work and then I was having my time with God on Friday morning and I read John 15 five of Jesus.

Through the branches to stay connected to me.

Go bear fruit without me you can do nothing and I wept unless it oh God I cannot even run a dump folder without you. After I got there, we bring us to God, asking you to give me the wisdom to run this folder because I realize I can do it and I went in that folder just enough is like God ran that folder restless and that's a lesson I never forgot it was a changing point in my life. Yet that is not my efforts my abilities and all of you know that the Christian life is simply depending on God for everything every day and were just walking with him and letting him accomplish in your life and through your life.

What he has in mind so you think the experience may be different for different people, but ultimately it does come to what you're talking about.

It's it's realizing that we are already his children and his children forever, and that we don't have to try to get there. We already his job and now it's a matter of developing a relationship with them being honest with him about your thoughts or feelings of all of that. Why is it you think that even the church. Seems like a lot of times were not expecting to see much change in a person when they become a Christian, you know, we display well okay the construct of the church. Now we don't we don't release what what you think that's true. I think maybe it isn't like you said maybe in a number of reasons, but I think one of the reasons is when lots of people are not experiencing this life-giving power and are faking it to some degree and have struggles and you look to the left and you look to the right. I think this standard instead of being this is Christ likeness. This is the power that you possess. This is this is what God expects and desires. I think we sort of said units on the night. I think down the known can really live that life is like think we really don't believe it. And so you know hey you're a guy got understand you're probably gonna log on the porn once a month or so which 50% of Christian men, according surveys do or you know hey what the heck everyone. Everyone's going to drink a little bit too much now and then.

Are you know I don't think God can really expect us to reserve sex for marriage, and I think it's been this gradual dumbing down if you will. Where giving one another.

A pass because it is a challenge and it really you swim upstream. If you will. When you begin to live with a commitment to I really want to love God and am committed to living a holy life that can be a very lonely challenging difficult place and I wanted I want to just tag on to something you said because I remember that conversation with Bobby when he decided to quit the Christian life. Basically he was having a conflict with his girlfriend and he couldn't get it resolved, that was well it's really really hard.

It's difficult it's painful. So I quit. I just want to say I think what you shared because that has been my experience in pastoring for 35 years. A lot of people if you're hitting rock bottom bottom if you're hitting rock bottom. If you're struggling.

If it's not working you come to the end of yourself that was the turning point for me and I think instead of being discouraged like this isn't working. I can't stop lusting. I can't stop comparing myself or I can't like you said getting honest and broken. That is seen of the Lord is near to the brokenhearted and saves those who are crushed in spirit. I think that's that vulnerable place where you you really do say God I can't and I think our heavenly father's leaning down going while I was hoping you'd get here a lot sooner. I want to help you. I love you and I look back on my life and I'm glad I learned that early without him I can do nothing otherwise new know you work hard and if you take the credit for all the good stuff.

You do not think one of the reasons Gary I either I wrote this book was these are so common, I mean after I pastored little tiny churches of 35 people in rural areas and churches of thousands of people in other areas and what I saw is what it was a conservative area or liberal area multicultural is these themes are so true all across the board and people are struggling. I think they sincerely want to experience Jesus. They want to please him enough to keep in your head against the wall and you don't know how it works and don't know what you need or don't even understand sometimes when you're hitting your head against the wall. This is normal and so great about, read about this disciple that think they had some real struggles but so I'm praying that we can give some people some practical ways that are rooted in truth, that help them break through and experience the love of God and is transforming power.

Is this a go to book you think could be used in a small group in a church you know we talked earlier about the value of being in this group and working with people just working through this chapter by chapter discussing being open and honest with each other is is that one way this book could be used yet.

In fact, we we designed us some small-group material to to go with it and what I found was even meeting with someone one-on-one. It's interesting, Gary with had lots of people go through this content in small groups that's been superpowerful and then when the pandemic had I did something I've never done before. You know, I was stuck like everyone else and I was supposed to go to China and everything's canceled and I literally went on our broadcast and I said if you've never had anyone meant for you or people sure have asked you a lot. You know what you disciple me. I'm not always sure what what they mean but I do know there was a bricklayer who met with me every Tuesday morning for about three years. That process life with me and and didn't just teach me the Bible but you know I could share my heart and he taught me how to meet with God and hear his voice and so I I invited people. If you want to meet with me I'll never talk more than 10 minutes and wheat. I filmed it and I said you know if you'll do this for like 19 or I think 21 days is the is the research to build a habit and we called it daily discipleship with Chip and I literally walk people through this content every day and just ask them to give me 10 minutes. On the other side and provide a little in a PDF for them to work through and it's available right now and they can get it anytime they want to go on a journey and it's been really exciting that you put your arm around people and walk with them and have them do that with other people that's available on our app or website.

If people are thinking. I'd like to meet with someone every day for 19 or 20 days, and learn how you how you work through these issues.

Thanks for joining us today for Building Relationships with Dr. Gary Chapman, author of the New York Times bestseller "The 5 Love Languages" . Find out more about your love language or our featured resource by going to five love languages.com you can listen to the stream or download the podcast right there and link to the book by author and speaker Chip Ingram you hear him on the program living on the edge. His book is yes, you really can change. Find out more at 5lovelanguages.com that's five love languages.com Chip were talking about change over time obviously noted as well change overnight.

What what is can you give us an overview. What's the process of transformation of becoming unit more more like Christ.

Let me see if I can do it may be like on ESPN 1/92 quick overview change always begins with the truth and so chapters 1, two and three of Ephesians are the truth about you, then it opens up with the command to walk in a manner that your belief and behavior tells the same story and then it's interesting that the first place it goes is to begin with. Deep relationships that are other centered with all humility and gentleness. Patients bearing with one another and then the text says it transformation process.

It begins in connected relationships, and then it focuses on where is the power soon. Chapter 4 verses seven through 10 it talks about Jesus accomplished that he defeated Satan, and death penalty in the power of sin, then he says, change happens in a in a in a supernatural community verses 11 to 16 of talk about the role of the church and leaders in equipping people and then in verses 17 to 24. He talks about our personal role have yet to put off those things that we know are wrong, and those lies that we believe have our mind renewed and then put on her literally go into training on those areas that cultivate Christ likeness. And then that the last part of that chapter 25 to 32 has five specific training stations that in the book I go through and help people go into training, so I think Gary one of the big things people think is when they want to change. I think they focus on their behavior or on their emotions, and that's not where change happens change always begins with the truth but then it begins with how you think it's the renewing of your mind where real change happens from the inside out, wrote a powerful journey and I can see how working through the book and with that, with the help only help would be very very helpful to anyone. Any Christian who wants to walk with others or your walk with one other person true that when a separate talk about changing bad habits and full-blown addictions of one sort or another, and can be broken right, absolutely. There's a whole chapter impact on right now media unit.

We put some information up and they'll send us something and they'll say the number one message that people go to that we put up living on the edge is how to break free of a destructive lifestyle and it really is. We've got you know you get those great emails as I know you do in those stories of people that have deep-seated addictions that are rooted in lies and they tried and tried in willpower and sometimes recovery then what you help them understand is this is the law you identify it. We have them actually write it down and then we put a stop sign. Stop then you flip a card over and we say this is the truth. But for me, like I deep-seated I was a I was a workaholic at a level that just possessed my life. Born out of insecurity and mean your background you could tell me all the reasons how I got there and alcoholic father and you never measure up.

I took all that in my Christian life I tried.

I told my wife I told people I tried a million times to break. I won't work as much or I won't know when I relaxed I felt guilty when I wasn't active when I wasn't accomplishing and I remember writing on the card. I feel like I must please everyone and exceed everyone's expectation or in order to be an okay person stop. That was a lie and I flipped over the card and it said I desire to please others, like anyone else, but I don't need to. I'm loved, accepted, appreciated by God.

Just for who I am and then underneath that I put a verse that talked about God's unconditional love for me and that was a number of things and I reviewed that my wife and I morning and night because we we were marriage counseling at the time early on we both had alcoholic father.

So we both had various addictions and it was in the identifying the lie, renewing our mind and then going into training where specific activities I I literally begin to practice or some people call them virtues.

I watched God's spirit breaks the need to be a workaholic. I saw God give me peace and learn to believe what is true about me now.

I've done would be quick to say, after all these years, under intense pressure what I watch myself that's always a temptation and a default I have come to shake my something another nano in a way to minute. I don't need to respond to everybody and everything. I still have those cards and still reviewing I'm sure that in our culture there literally thousands of people who are Christians and in the broad sense of the word they've worked hard and they struggle with lust. Their whole life and I just feel like I'm never going to be free from this. I'm in bondage to this.

Can there be real deliverance from that absolutely I was one of those people that was about 2 1/2 three years in my Christian life because I I was committed not to be a hypocrite and the external things change. I you know as I renewed my mind I badmouth went away, but my internal even my behavior, my external behavior was righteous or holy towards women.

My thought life was a whole different story. And I remember trying trying trying trying trying trying and I still remember walking into my dorm room and telling God I'm done I can't do this. I I am not can be hypocrite and even though you know I'm not sleeping around and all the rest my mind where I look in and it in the midst of that you know the Lord spoke to me and I didn't have any big dramatic moment and I had a fellow brother, you know wasn't in isolation who said hey you know, let me encourage you to try something and I had no idea what I was doing but I actually went to one of those navigator training programs myself and in preparation you had the silent struggle with lust and by now you know I'm actually doing a little bit of teaching, and now you feel even more guilty like this beautiful coed your teaching is worked and then lusting for her. It was like oh my soul was ripped apart and to get to go if you remember Gary to one of the training programs you had to have the topical memory system memorized all 60 verses and so I was on the basketball team. My roommate was a wrestler we always had this sort of fun competition and so he was on his way to one of these training programs and he left the room and so I took all of his cards and I cut 3 x 5 cards and I wrote down all 60 verses and he was doing like a couple versus a week and so completely wrong motives. I decide I'm going to do a verse a day. I'm gonna nail all 60 of these down WordPerfect. I'm just gonna casually walk in and say how's it coming Bob with your verses and then go through all 60 verses and so I went nuts. I mean, I actually didn't like psychology class is very boring. I put my book up.

I reviewed versus I remember jogging to baseball practice reviewing versus and I and I mean it was just a never forget that. I met this beautiful coed. He was very godly and all I know is that if you lust for anyone you feel guilty when you lust for a very godly woman. It's really double guilty and what came around the corner of the library. I still remember is my 21st verse that I memorized. I saw her. We had a conversation my eyes made eye contact, only we had a great conversation. I walked away, and for the first time as a Christian, I did not lust for her, and then I started to head over to the cafeteria with the other basketball guys because we would sit on the bottom floor in the top five floors were girls, dorms, and they would walk past and we would know 8.593 it was terrible. Matt was terrible. As I started there the spirit of God of all go to the other cafeteria what what I want people to hear is I had and I didn't know about mind renewal, but God's word is powerful and active and sharper than a two-edged sword, and piercing to the division of soul and spirit of the joint and marrow, and judges the thoughts and intentions of the heart. It's powerful. And when Jesus wanted to overcome temptation in the enemy. He spoke and quoted the word of God, and those first 21 verses I was free. What happened I still didn't make the connection. So I did all 60 verses and all I can tell people is I'd I didn't know enough because no one told me that mind renewal was the key to transformation.

But it broke the power and so this other side of this is you know I didn't go to the I did go to the cafeteria in our day, you can't watch Netflix you can't log on and you can't watch movies that stir your heart toward lust. You have to say no to the things that are bombarding your mind say yes to renewing your mind and then you have to have a brother were pure girl, a sister that you can be totally honest with and as you go through that process.

I've seen countless men and women break the power of lust.

But it is available today and I think it is literally paralyzing. The effectiveness it if if your thoughts are pure you live with guilt and you live with guilt. You're not to be used by God, but you don't experience the power of God. This is Building Relationships with Dr. Gary Chapman, author of the New York Times bestseller "The 5 Love Languages" Chip Ingram is our gas. The author of our featured resource. It's titled, yes, you really can change. Find out more at 5lovelanguages.com again, go to five love languages.com trip in the last segment. One of the things I heard her saying was you it's the power of Scripture in the mind that God uses to change your hearts and our minds, but it also involves an application of that involves changing some things that we've been accustomed to doing. You mentioned moving from one cafeteria to another gift. Yes XOXO it's God, and we have a responsibility in this right it's not. It's not that God zaps us and does all this we we work with God yeah I love the thought and I don't know where I got it from. Probably some wise theologian, but only God can change a life. But he never chooses to do it alone and you know God has are we thankful that God has given us these lungs that we breathe in air that you know what I don't suck in the air. He doesn't do it for me so it's a cooperation and I think part of it is that it's that no yes proposition. You know they're in Romans chapter 12 verse two he says literally. Chromatically it's stop allowing yourself to be squeezed into the mold of the world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind that you might experience the will of God.

That which is good, acceptable and perfect. And so I think there's a stop and its casino just like personal diet or an alcoholic not going to a bar. You got a look at what information, what people what relationships are feeding my flesh that says I want to luster I want to drink or I want to please people. Whatever it is, then you renew your mind and then you have to take a step on the other side what people what experiences are positive in my life that help me do and become the man or woman that I want to become. But who who Christ wants us to become. I always was. I had a guy who was called me and he was a I didn't know him well. I think he called me. He was a supporter of our ministry and he said can I talk yes it will sure he goes I am. I'm scared to death and I'm in a bad situation and said what's that goes well. I own a business and I am I'm emotionally attracted and I'm just about ready to have an affair and got three kids, four kids, a Member and it would destroy everything. I don't want to be there but I own the business. This person works for me it's very mutual and more like magnets when were around one another and I mean we look at each other. I find myself looking forward to going to work. I any goes I see all the signs. What I what I need to do and I remember having the spirit of God, give me some insight.

I said you need to do what ever it takes to break this off said what you mean. I said I mean if you're right I is causing you to send pluck it out. If your right hand is causing you to send cut it off as an obviously Jesus is speaking in hyperbole because you could. You can send with your left either your left hand but I think what he saying is be as drastic as you need to be to confront it and I said if that means selling your business. You know what, so your business.

You need your wife, your kids, your walk with God he can give you another business, but don't take anything off the table be as drastic as you need to be. That's one of those great stories where he did eat. He literally probably encourage huge financial loss, but I'm still friends with them is got a great marriage, great kids and a great life. So I think you're right. There's times where it got. God doesn't zap us but he does speak to us will go and we never regret making the right decision and that the truth note chip 11 listen to you and I'm gone through this book a couple of times and I can't tell you how much I've underlined it was almost like I should underline the places this that I didn't need to underline because everything else is so good, but what you just said brings up one of the points that we have to get to and that is you say it's impossible to grow alone and so many people who are struggling today are isolated. They're not plugged into the church. The not connected for a lot of different reasons and some of them are good. So what you say about that. I believe isolation is where we literally die. It is impossible, it's absolutely impossible.

In fact, if you could go through all the New Testament and put on a screen instantaneously every single command during the second person plural I can find. I mean maybe one or two in the whole New Testament it's you all love one another.

You all honor one another you all encourage one another, God has designed this we can't do it alone but that doesn't mean just casual relationships. I remember studying in Romans chapter 12 where he says let love be without hypocrisy up or what is evil.

Cling to what is good. You devoted to one another in brotherly love and end.

There is about 13 quick little staccato encouragements that are all commands and what it really talks about is the real you has to show up and meet real needs in another person, you have to do it in the right way with the right motive and I don't how to describe this to you except to say there's this level of vulnerability and intimacy and you do it layer by layer and you do it you know wisely with people you can trust. But there is this I am going to do life with you with Jesus together.

I think every man needs a man or two or three in his life that they can do that with and every woman the same, and often seasons to do it as couples, but I think there's a lot of people that are muscling through trying so hard, wanting to please God. Feeling the pressure that the let down their family let down the church ruin their reputation, but life is a struggle because there's not you know accordance three is not easily broken. God gives us grace through his word, yes. He gives us grace through good teaching gives us grace through the taking the Lord's supper and baptism. But Jesus lives inside of other people and often when he wants to hug you.

He's going to use the body of another person in whom he lives. When he wants you to know he understands it's going to be through the look into the eyes of about a fellow traveler who cares who doesn't judge who's for you and says you know what, you're not alone. We will go through this together mean even Jesus. I think on his last night in his perfect humanity. You know you three come stay with me. You know I I'm over here duking it out. He was fully God and fully man and he chose he needed Peter James and John, guys, I need you to be with me and if Jesus needed them to be with him. How much more. Each one of us.

And if you don't have that, I will just predict you will not live the life or experience the victory God has intended. It took the church leaders can discover perhaps rediscover the truth because I think we have thousands of people in this country to go to church on a regular basis, but they do not have the kind of relationships that you just described with one or two or three other people in which the really sharing life with each other even more tragically, Gary.

I spent a good portion of my time with pastors there are very few pastors that have those kind of relationships and what I've learned is an anemic pastor who feels this pressure to be and to appear but doesn't have those is in such a vulnerable position and it's it's tragic and I member making a decision as a unit pastor churches of all different sizes and I got where I literally didn't even look at how many people showed up at church because as pastors, are they well know a few hundred people showed up her unit 10 more people depending on the size of the church. The pastor's emotions goes up and down with what I what I did as I said you know what I'm gonna do. I'm going I'm going to measure the people that are connected in small groups and if that's up into the right and were making progress and I'm going to I'm going to track the people that are connected and serving because what you find is when people get together and serve and care then they build relationships that that are great and those became my new metrics and I thought you know what at the end of the day. It won't be how many people come to any church. It'll be what kind of people are leaving that church and making a difference in the world and the community to appear and I both knew Howard Hendricks and they mentioned something he said to you that you've never forgotten share that with us will Gary profits. We called him headache incredible impact in my life right a brownbag lunch with 10 other guys. He says gentlemen get this down.

God will never love you more than he loves you right now at this minute there's nothing to prove nothing to lose and now once you get that than what you need to say is, how do I say thank you for all that is done for me and then he went on the board and he wrote objective could you really want to be priorities. How badly do you want it schedule. Where does it show up in your life on your calendar and discipline. Are you willing to stick with your schedule to follow the path not to prove anything but express your love for God and I was 28 years old.

After that brownbag lunch and I drove to Dairy Queen and I sat down with a napkin and I did something to change the whole course of my life instead of my to do list. I wrote to be list that I wrote down.

I want to be a man of God want to be a great husband want to be a great father want to be a great pastor, I want to be a great friend and for whatever reason I want to be in great shape. I don't know why I added that and I wrote those on cards and not put them in my in my calendar and since I was 28 years old very imperfectly. I've gone by my to be list and squeeze my to do list and on the side. It really change the course of my life that is that is powerful. Well I wish we had another hour to talk shipped but going to encourage people to read the book in your gift. Not only will we talked about you get a whole lot more. Thanks for being with us today.

God bless you as you contend of the ministry God is well.

It's a joy to be with you and that you get this a lot but I'm going to keep saying it. Thank you for what you have done and what you are doing changed my life in my marriage and I'm grateful. What an encouraging conversation.

Chip Ingram is his name and find out about.

Yes, you really can change "The 5 Love Languages" .com look for chips that just go to your app store and search Chip Ingram ING RA find out more go to the website.

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Big thank you to our production team Eveland Janice Todd Building Relationships with Dr. Gary Chapman is the production of many radio and association with Moody publishers ministry in the Bible and thanks for listening