Can Jesus' Deity Be Proven Without the New Testament?

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Learn more@harness.org and while you're there, browse our library and free e-books designed to help you grow in your faith today on a new beginning reward is retired Detective Jim walls proving the uniqueness of Jesus Christ walking around. Why should we even believe that amending Jesus was a tossup as to get out.

Is there a way to make the case for Jesus even if every single Bible history of what turns out there is a sucker you know specially where they solve real-life crime stories, especially cold cases and we happen to have a real life retired cold case detective with us today and is much as I'd like to sit here and hear some stories of cases is worked on user user to talk about a more important case right yeah that's right it's a brand-new book for my friend Jay Warner Wallace and the J sensor, Jim is yes it does.

J. Warner Wallace in his new book is called person of interest, subtitled why Jesus still matters in a world that rejects the Bible you know I think this book is really neat.

Jim because you are basically looking at the impact of Jesus on culture in general, there are actually people walking around.

That will say Jesus Christ never existed. This is all a man-made myth, of course, at such a ridiculous statement but what would you say that someone else would say well all we have is the biblical account you can't trust that. So why should we even believe that amending Jesus ever even walk this earth okay so I'm with you for a point of argument or trial.

For sake of argument, but just toss out the biblical managed okay. You don't trust that he ever exist. You can't trust the Bible says about is okay fine to take it out. Is there a way to make the case for Jesus even if every single Bible in the history of Bibles had all been destroyed.

What turns out there is. It's not like when you make a case in a cold case where you got saved a husband and kills his wife.

Then he gets rid of her body and we take a missing persons report. He says oh she ran off so then years later we decide this is a shame she never came back.

Something is up as a homicide now working as a homicidal thing we got no crime scene. He moved to clean the place up, got no physical evidence about how to make that kind of a case to a jury will hear that we do it. I was told the jury on the day of the murder.

A bomb went off, something explosive happened, but there was a long fuse that burned up to that explosion and there's all kinds of shrapnel afterward to make this case to you from simply the fuse and the fallout all the stuff that led up to this day and all the stuff that fall. That is all you did was look at the history of humanity. Everything that leads up to the appearance of this explosive moment that breaks that that BC and A.D. you want, you know, before the common era and of the common era where we want to turn it something explosive had us right there that changes history will assist exam.

The fuse was to examine the fallout. Here's what you gonna discover is that yes there is only one cause for that turn in history.

His name was Jesus of Nazareth and you can reconstruct the story of Jesus without any reference to any biblical manuscript just from the fallout of history in the arts in music in the literature in science and education is, for example, this all you did was go and visit the top 15 universities in the world today as you discover they are all founded by Christians in the top 15 all founded by Christians nothing up a Christian anymore right but they were founded by Christian hospital has Ryan relief organization absolute in all the song we guess what if you just took a look at the buildings you don't know Bibles not just the buildings. The buildings of these campuses of those top 50 schools you're gonna discover they're covered in verses yes they're covered in artwork of Jesus. You can reconstruct the story of Jesus just from the buildings of the top 15 universities in the world. So unless you're willing to destroy all of it on the top 50 universities. You're to be stuck with the story of Jesus. Even if you didn't have a new test about a nation called the United States of America what is the role of Jesus Christ in the Bible itself, and the establishing of our country elegantly again as it's great. Even people who would say that I'm not a religious person. I'm not a pastoral essay about this he realizes I was a fraction between science and in faith right now I can't do both will really go back and look at the thing called the scientific revolution and all of the fathers of all of the scientific disciplines you discover the vast majority were Christians who also wrote about Jesus in their private writings and all you had was the private writings of the top scientists in the history of science. Yes, you can reconstruct the story of Jesus what you want to get rid of all those people to from history, you're still stuck with the stopwatches. Jim you point out that there's a relationship between what's true and what matters. In fact, let me quote from your book, you say, few of us order our lives around and make decisions based on our belief in Bigfoot if we don't believe something is true, then it doesn't matter. As we share our faith is important. Remember that an unbeliever may not think Christianity matters because they don't believe it's true. We need to start at that point Dolly yet is no doubt about that has been said that one of the biggest challenges to theism, the belief in God is atheism right the believe that there is no God but I think is actually bigger chant a challenge and that's what people started to call. Apathy is another words and then there isn't a sense of urgency about this why would I care about this if is true, why would I even give my life to this.

This is why we really want to focus on does Jesus matter what. Turns out he matters in all the areas that you are really matter to me as an atheist look at as normally as I only became a believer is about 35 walked into a church and no interest didn't think was even worth debunking. I got a good friendly struggle with occasional Christ Lee and Leslie. Leslie became a Christian.

First, he was out to prove her wrong I was not to prove what want to investigate the Easter Bunny only does that okay this is an patently false is not worth my time, but it turns out that as I examine the things my own life the matter the most, which would've been education in science and the arts.

I've got to run the arts. I was a architect before being a police officer. These are things that matter to the innocence of a spirituality is non-Christian. Will it turns out that all of those areas Jesus matters in those areas is Christ followers who shaped art the way we know it today in shaped music the way we know to initiate education and science is matter fact no one's hadn't bigger impact on non-Christian religions and then Jesus of Nazareth, so all those things that matter most to us as a culture, it turns out we owe a debt of gratitude to Jesus of Nazareth. I think when people realize at least that might initiate this effort to decide who is he� Investigate who this guy is because it turns out he changed the world. So G1 will as Jim is sitting next to me right now is a dateline featured homicide detective, so he's approaching this from a different perspective. He's worked on actual cold cases. He knows what he's talking about. He's presented the evidence to juries and seeing people convicted for their crime. So he's approaching this from a different angle, but one thing you said to me Jim I found interesting is this almost is like a kids book for an adult and as a look through it. You mentioned you have a background in design, as do I and you've illustrated it pretty much looks like almost every page or at least every other page. Maybe every page has an illustration of some kind which makes this very digestible. Think well I can wrap my mind around that.

You've really broken this down in a way that just an ordinary person could understand why this is like a kids but it was a great graphic novel and Zentz right. The idea is that the current generation of people, myself included, we become so conditioned to seeing you use that expression. You know I see what you mean is yours, will do this right will yeah I got it I was. I saw it was when you found a way of showing me this is why so hard to to dictate to argue against videos videos show us what happened. Yeah so I wanted to build illustrated in a way that people can see that over 400 illustrations and also we spent apart about three months just illustrating the book, but the idea here is to help jurors. Whoever reads the book to see what were talking about your pastor Greg when we hear objections to the faith. How do we know if the persons really stuck on a particular factor I need and there in search of an explanation, or if they really don't want to even talk about religion and their in search of an exit from the conversation. That's right. We know that's a hard question to answer because sometimes people will hide behind so-called intellectual arguments, but they really want you to talk to them. I'll use myself as an illustration when I was a kid I used to hang around by the pier in Newport Beach.

I was going the wrong direction in life. I was on drugs. I was empty and I saw these Christians walking around handing out little booklets and I really wanted one of them to engage me, but I had this tough guy fa�ade that they apparently went for and they would walk by me and just look at me for a moment, just give me the little booklet and walk off.

No one would talk to me. I was literally saying would someone please talk to me so I never threw any of these things away.

I went home and I had a drawer that was sort of like Mike God drawer if you will. Every piece of religious literature I was given one in the store so at gospel tracts information from the watchtower Society things that Mormons Rd., Hare Krishna writings, you name it. It was in there and every now and then I would pull this little drawer out dump it on my bed and I would try to make sense of it and really I wanted answers but I needed someone to engage me and tell me listen, I've got a resource for you that's good I hope you tell people more about your faith and engage them in a way that will answer those intellectual questions but also point them to Jesus Christ. It's called person of interest written by J Warner Wallace know what unique about Jim is he's an apologist, someone who defends the faith, but he used to be a cold case detective: were you with the detected about 25 years 25 years and you still think like a cop. Sadly, my life with my daughters always say it's impossible to talk to you because only been interiorly also think that I would think a police officer is is generally analytical, not may be given to mere emotions there. The things carefully hunted. How do you process that I think the movie for instance, your wife and you are in a movie due process it differently or used only so I this is the sad truth about most of us would do this for long enough. If I the us up.

I assume that you are lying to me from the get-go is a good chance of going to get to the truth eventually. But I tell when someone's lying. I just assume everyone is lying because the reality of it is.

I assume people are told in the trim to be fooled all the jail.

But if on the other hand, I assume everyone's a liar until I can demonstrate otherwise right you will that that now I got a chance to actually dig through it I might find the somebody actually is line so the assumption has to be on. Sadly, this is the challenge for officers yeah especially if you're Christ followers yes Rick is worth were really called to do something different than this to have a certain amount of empathy, not to assume everyone is guilty of something right but but but from an investigative perspective that was the approach it took to Jesus again. 35. I walk in the church for the first time pastor said that Jesus was the smartest person who ever lived. That was the only interest I had in Jesus of now is my sumptuous affront is an existing ever existed as all mythology but even if it's mythology. I was willing to listen to it if it was smart mythology. But as I investigated the Gospels, I realized this is the mythology.

This is act essentially occurred.

If the resurrection curtain that's a game changer right mean I foolishly will believe somebody rises from the grave economic typically can listen to that and I had to listen to what Jesus in the New Testament authors said about me as well is what they were saying about Jesus as I realize that Jan and basically that the gutter described in these the Savior.

You know those the folks at service and law enforcement have come under such attack of late and it's so hard to be a cop but in their unit. There's bad cops just like there's better creatures and bad debt or embed doctors and bad everything yeah but by and large is a wonderful people that serve us that put their lives on the line every single day and and I just wanted to say that two of those who are in law enforcement were listeners Dorset. We appreciate what you do. This is not about your book, but just say a word to people serving us in law enforcement and maybe say a word to us who are going to encounter these folks you may be because you went over the speed limit and and how to treat them and think about walking to one of things and there's some dimensions to this great it's it's almost hard to start but I'll say this one thing, there's two competing things we deal with in every shift. The first is the call that we signed up for to some to be to ask sacrificially to serve our country. In other words, I willing to give that lay my life down to protect the community and I'm called to do that.

I swore to do that at the same time, there is this desire to get home at the end of the shift will these things are absolutely contrary to each other right mean if I'm going to want to go within of the shift. I should run from danger right. But if I wanted my calling. I should run toward danger.

So every shift is us trying to figure out how can we accomplish both. Is it possible to accomplish both of these things since my symptoms walk up on somebody was just sped through a red light and if I walk up on that guy like he's no just late for dinner I might I come home tonight and I walk about like he's just running from a robbery just committed one out different kind of cautious approach right because I'm thinking he might be somebody who's running from something bad. I need to walk up an approach that's why those first few minutes of contact to be kind of awkward. Well, it's not because we're thinking types euros. Peter got terrible person know it's because we have these two goals in mind that to protect the community but get home at the end of the shift.

Now once worked. We realize he's just the guy was late for dinner.

They got a shift right. But what happens is, the more you do this job. The more you stay on hyper alert mode and that of course can be misread by people I totally get that.

That is, that in the biggest challenge we have is officers while interesting insights into what goes in the thinking of a police officer. So next time you're pulled over have a little respect.

The officer tells you to keep your hands on the steering wheel. Don't argue with them or her and I was pulled over while he goes over in the island of Maui and that the slowest speed limit.

I'm trying to justify it now yeah exactly like the slowest speed limit of think literally 25 mph and Aaron (of road and think it's gotta be you know you can drive faster and you pulled me over and I just said officer. I'm sorry I didn't know was breaking the speed limit and I got my drivers license out nights that you know I went over and I saw and I just owned it. I wasn't trying to get out of it. I only goes well you were honest enough to see the truth. Have a nice day in slowdown what is yet is a discretion of the idea for us is nearly changed future behavior.

You don't want you crazy behavior change might be as right and he did not write you a ticket to do it. We appreciate that. We appreciate those that service and law enforcement. So if you're listening out the thank you for what you do, but here's a book for everybody a book that is going to be really encouraging to younger people as well. What I love about this book. Jim is you've illustrated that your graphic designer and almost every page has an illustration of some kind. So it really breaks it down in an understandable way is called person of interest why Jesus still matters in a world that rejects the Bible and you described it to me as a kid book or an adult elaborate on that he had the ideas at the we become such a visual learners in session. Visual concerns of media that all of us trying to figure out ways that how do we and kids books. I love them because they are about 50-50 text to illustration some written a few kids books now.

So now I was thinking of writing this book. I just no longer satisfied even as an adult with not being able to see the case like I can make this visual yeah I tried table, 82% of of these the scientists in the 15th century were Christians. What I showed you every one of them in an election year ago that's that's really that sorrowful nights are ready to see it, so the numbers don't mean as much is actually seeing that they areas are assigned to. So we want to be able to provide something that I can't hit a group again were doing it like USA sometimes is the Bible's hard places in the Bible that needs someone to translate the assignment and make them accessible to us. That's what you do so well were trying to do something similar here difficult concepts. How do we throw them in a way the people and catch them but Jimmy in the book, you kind of examine two cases side-by-side.

One is a real-life cold case you investigated in the latter part of your career as a cold case detective. The other is the case for the deity of Christ and you do a great job of showing how the same investigative techniques and apply to each case and produce a verdict, sir, to give us one more soul. From that process. If you can't share him a part of this is that we are able to commence juries of something that's true even though we don't have any evidence from a crime scene.

This happens all the time. The reason why were called cold cases are cold for a reason because they're lame. Okay, they don't have the evidence that a case of easily so I would have.

So I picked these cases up. I often know and I can have evidence from a crime scene to find another way to convince people that this actually occurred and so I'm always talking about what leads up to the crime and what follows the crime that is as important as what happened on the day of the crimes matter affect what leads up to in what follows will often demonstrate what happened on the daily grind. Turns out the history the same way, what leads up to history to a prophetic fuse right of all the Jewish prophecy leading up to Jesus. There is a cultural fuse of all of the world powers that were aligned and unaligned in the wars that are certain to find the Roman empire begins to take over and develop a scenario laid the foundation for the arrival of Jesus. And there's even a little of a huge history of ancient history of deities and in the ancient world that seem to bear some resemblance to one another as a matter fact I have identified 15 ways that these ancient deities are similar to each other yet they don't all possess all 15 attributes they possess no. 678 of these attributes will then comes along one who possesses all 15 attributes of the ancient deities, and his name is Jesus and has no why would God align history and then arrive meeting those attributes of the other because it turns out that when you can meet the expectations of the expectorant you get a great response and so what God does as he arrives. As Paul says on Mars Hills. You are people you want from her. He worship a lot of God's name and see it a monument here to the unknown God, let me tell you now what you have been worshiping common ignorance. Let me tell you now about that, but it turns out Jesus embodies the expectations of all humans who worship deities prior to Jesus. Why would this be the case, is that fuse is burning up to the appearance of God incarnate, and of course all of human history that follows Jesus from the arts for music even as you can reconstruct the story of Jesus just from the painted and sculpted artwork through antiquity to the Middle Ages. If all you had to destroy all of art in order to erase the strip as a matter of fact, the top artists in the history of art any genre any time. Do the top three artists in that genre. And guess what in their portfolio. You will find a painting, sculpture and etching a drawing of Jesus of Nazareth. There is no other historical figure in the history of historical figures who can claim they been painted or sculpted by everyone. So it turns out that you do a lot of erasing in order to erase the impact that Jesus had on now. How could this be what it turns out if you just a guy it makes no sense if he's God entering into his own creation and makes all the sense in the world. And so it turns out that fuse and fallout are actually really good evidence that Jesus is who he said he was well Jim your book is so full of facts in a hard cold hard facts, but when people come to the Lord become by faith. So how does a factual case report of faith decision. What is it we do it if an injury trials were constantly saying he were going to give you enough good evidence to make the right proper inference about what happened even though you are still going to have unanswered questions to be the can a person who has can't make a decision on a jury with unanswered questions were not going to impanel your workout leave you off the jury because we know were not going to be able to answer every question will build answer enough though to leave you with a smaller step of trust that for your inference we do in Christianity same way Jesus did the same thing. He said you know he will believe them ever what I was told you at least believe on the evidence of these miracles is as is the gospel of John. He provides evidence at every turn he he he heals.

Then he heralds white. Why is that not order why Dwight why don't need to do this first to demonstrate the authority I have with the words and about to say. I boarded laid the foundation for them evidentially went when John the Baptist is starting to struggle right. He sends his disciples to Jesus. Jesus could easily tell those disciples of John the Baptist go back and tell John he should know better is my cousin, for crying out loud. He left and the woman, her parents met you know he baptized me saw the sending of the really John should know better. Note what he does as he reminds the disciples of John the Baptist of the miracles he has worked in front of them go back and tell John go back and remind John that's evidence that's called indirect evidence.

Read the evidence of miracles. Jesus constantly does this even though we know that that evidence. I know this to. I don't expect are you somebody into the kingdom when I want to do is help people to come to remove the barriers they constructed for themselves so that when they hear the gospel is available to them. And so I think the kind of work we do is just to till the soil be impairing the ground for you and I know that for me personally, you could on this all day long. It would've been useless, but at some point God first acted to change the nature of my heart so I would pay attention to the case at all. I didn't do that. Nobody I was prayed in the deposition by people who love me enough to pray for me and God's spirit moved in me and it was all got top down, but at the same time delete take time to make a case were kind of like basically is a big preaching the gospel. I needed to hear the case. That way, I need to hear that evidential case before I would listen to the gospel and so as that was the outlet at that time became a Christian I became a Christian.

By examining the Gospels as if they were eyewitness accounts to see if they were reliable and that help me to to tear down the walls that I had constructed so that when I read what the New Testament said about Jim Wallace about my need for a Savior. I was able to actually respond to your story reminds me a lot of Lisa Strobel who we both know great guy and also Chuck Colson yeah you know Chuck was very intelligent man and he work with the president and he was sent to prison connected to Watergate, but he came to faith when he began to consider the claims of Christ. I remember reading in this book that he took on a yellow legal tablet then started writing down things that were foreign. Against this idea of Christianity and ultimately ended up believing and you know this is how some people think, but I wanted to ask you this. You know Jesus said people don't come to the light because they don't want their evil deed is most sometimes people put up a smokescreen.

We don't even know if they believe the things are espousing. But they throw a lot of things that you may be hoping that you will just go away. How do you know Jim when it's a smokescreen that one should try to answer each of their objections or if it's just really a person that isn't going to respond to anything you say because they're choosing to not believe in Jesus because they don't want to change the way they live. Yellow three reasons why anyone rejects a truth claim rhyme. One is rational. Yeah, they have these enough evidential reason for this yet in a second one is emotional that has some experience with other Christians either. Parents, whatever that their emotional response and the third is volitional.

They just don't want to ever bend their knee when turns out that almost all that's a great summation well you all of this.

If you think about all of the wicked to hear from people is selling is a rational objections of the volitional objection or that object or the the emotional object or is going to sound is say something that sounds like it's a rational objection but is actually probably emotional or volitional actually think that almost that 80% of of objections are volitional, while in a similar emotional and very small percentage repeat his money and investigated the case, one where the other external sailors. This distance is is no reason to believe in miracles. Is that really your objection or just of analysis we can ask a question when the questions are from my friend Terry and I always ask us if we could demonstrate evidentially the Christianity is true. Would you become a Christ follower lot of extrude none on same interest of the thought experiment.

If we could somehow demonstrate beyond any doubt that this is true. Would you become a Christ you be surprised people is a no NFS in case you know it's not a head issue. It's a hard issue right and so will be due on juries, as I don't spend a lot of time with their some people that prosecutors do not want the jury and their people.

The defense attorneys do not want on the jury got close ones and force their people were too entrenched in their view there. I can change your mind and I can be fair, looking for twos and threes people who are on one side of the other, but they are open-minded enough to listen to the evidence and make the right difference.

So what we have to do. I think I'm talking to people like to figure out they are one of for me at this is somebody who right now God is not moved them into position three is so I can spend all this time there is can they see me as a another hammer looking for a nail and this is on by weight.

Social media exposes these kinds of people quickly publish this on Facebook yet family members you try to communicate Jesus to and they will debase players to hammer your the nail and at some point you to realize okay on the now instead of us putting a lot of time preaching at them as sharing evidence with them on now to be in play and model mode I'm in a be praying that God is my own parent. My own dad is in this category you pray for that person and you model Christ for that person and then at some point I I think I'll put that switch for that person will work for you. You said you were absolutely no whodunit would know who did it well but I know this is how this works out right and I feel you can also you I knew you when you were a gallon atheist nice to pray for you okay great will be just you that your prayers but but point as I know you know what my wife and I we did not become Christians for the first 18 years we were together so it was a lot of time there that I had a can of Russell through these behaviors. I mean habits you develop as a nonbeliever who you trust.

You have you trust yourself as a nonbeliever. A lot of this you have to cut but for me I knew that as an investigator really in a world right now. For example, we just came out of a coronavirus year and what happens and there is hate. The science dictates everything that I demonstrate this content ever on both sides will argue they can demonstrate this with facts writing over the world.

This is yet unless you can demonstrate something, evidentially why would I care about this attic that has impact on us as believers is what we ought to be able to show this is this is just beautiful, isn't just transformational." It is, but it's true and is true in a way, this evidential is not just what's working for me it's what is actually demonstrably true.

You know, and I think what I love about the way you present this truth.

Jim is that if I come it's knowledge on fire think it's knowledge. This is filled with information that's going to help people, but if you're on fire your passionate about what you're doing. If this is not just something that an academic pursuit.

It is that and you have so many footnotes to back up what you've said so this is clearly a well researched book but yet at the same time.

I love your passion, because ultimately your goal is to just see people come to believe in Jesus Christ.

While I was listening to you. To be honest, so passion is contagious. Well if you say hey you know why is it my kids are as passions. I like him to be or my friends are what are we as passionate as what happens is passion begets passion so as to listen to your radio show there's help me to be passionate as well will thank you very much. Passion is contagious and I think you're going to get some of that passion when you get a copy of this book by J. Warner Wallace called person of interest you can see that Jim knows what he's talking about here and you can have it right in front of you.

Although footnotes all the facts. Even the illustrations made a very understandable so you don't have to be a great academic to understand that this is something for everyone. As Jim described it to me. It's a kids book for adults you're gonna love this pastor Greg.

You mentioned how some believers are reluctant to share their faith, but at the very same time, though freely offer recommendations recommend a movie or a right grinder and auto mechanic. So why not recommend that people consider the Christian faith. Exactly how would a resource like this book person of interest. Help in making that kind of recommendation limits. I how would it help to an 18-year-old Greg Laurie I was a newly minted Christian. I heard the pastor say go share the gospel.

So I went out and I started telling people about Jesus. In fact, I ran into one of my old friends that I grew up with and I was telling him about the Lord of what Christ did done for me and suddenly some guy stepped into the conversation. I didn't invite him to step in, but he came and barraged me with about 4 to 5 questions. I don't even remember what they were, but all I remember is I didn't have the answers. I was humiliated. I was embarrassed my friend. There was talking do. Didn't want to talk to me anymore and I went home and I realized I've got to study and prepare myself to answer questions that nonbelievers ask. We need to be equipped you know the Bible says we should be able to give to every man answered concerning the hope that is in this but with meekness and fear.

This is key, it's the way you deliver information.

Sometimes Christians take data, information, facts that are all true and they deliver them with a sledgehammer. Sometimes they say put your gospel guns away. The objective is not to win the argument.

It's to win the soul. The objective is not to burn the bridge but to build the bridge and if you want to win some the winds. Some be a nice person. Don't be a know it all. Maybe you know a lot more than that person.

But don't be the know it all in and take an interest in the person you're listening to, you know, Jimmy mentioned that when you went to church. The preacher said before your believer. Jesus is the smartest man that ever lived. This is of course true and so here he is with the woman at the well. Always leave Jesus could just cut off and to give me a break know he listen to or engage with their he went back and forth with Thursday when Nicodemus he took time for people and and I think it's very important to deliver this information with compassion. In J. Warner Wallace is a former cold case detective. He knows what he's talking about but yet he delivers this with great passion and clarity. So this is the book the 18-year-old Greg Laurie needed to equip him to share his faith with people he was talking to and this is the book that you need if you're 18 or if you're 80 you're gonna learn as you read through it. It's it is so well researched footnotes galore at the end but then what I love about it because of the got all this is some textbook and I want to get this it's illustrative all the way through because Jim is an illustrator.

He's a designer. So is giving this to you in an understandable way. So you effectively see it as well as read it, Jim. You were an atheist for many many years. What if you had read this book somehow during that time would've changed her mind after the question and I i.e. II cannot wonder sometimes we really hold intellectual objections are most of our objections deeper than that. Their emotional or volitional, as I was really in a bit behind my objection, but I will tell you this, and often said I only met two kinds of Christians out I was in Southern California. To be honest I didn't have any Christian friends growing up didn't know never invited us to church never invited me to church.

My parents were Christians.

I just did not have a sense I didn't know anybody and and then I met some Christians at work now present the just as a police officer than a detective in the two groups of people.

I met the most often were number one police officers couple at our agency, who were Christians and would asked him questions they did not have good answers I thought. While these are people who are have a high value for evidence. Yet, when I asked him questions early, evidentially based alike.

So really you would never build a case against this guy was put in jail. The way you just got that case from Christian eyes that really this is a very unexamined worldview and then the other group I met who those other Christians.

The people I was taken to jail okay and those folks were telling me not yet. You know I just I be honest with you it would tell me I just got saved like you know last year when I arrived in jail. I'm thinking to myself really yeah so so we have to have Kaiser groups. Here we have people who are either unwilling to look at all you know. This is supported by the evidence and people who don't behave as though it supported by the evidence, and I wanted no part of either one.

I think it would be discomforting to know that there is a way of of of living as a Christian that is very well informed. Informed about history informed about science informed from educational perspective. You have to turn off your brain to be a Christian.

As a matter fact this is the I think the lived of the great gain of of all the dogs in the yard located the dogs you are young, philosophy of philosophies of the world in the history of philosophy.

I see this is the great Dane right that we don't need to act like Chihuahuas were costly barking because of the smallest dog in the yard. It turns out the Christian worldview is very well-informed and is supported by the evidence. You can repeat be comfortable enough to react aggressively. All you have to do though is know what the evidence is you have a sense of calm about defending the case for Christianity great statement. You don't have to turn off your brain to become a Christian in the Lord says come let us reason together, says the Lord. Reason there's a place for that place for answering the objections that people have in giving them biblical evidence. But then you know Jim, there's the evidence of a person's own life like that guy who was healed in someone challenged him he says look all I can tell you was once I was blind but now I see that's not everything, but it's something. Ms. Nicole every Christian has that story, absolutely. I don't think the use is not it. I have a tendency to tend to downplay testimony because I don't trust people right is a copy of your trust people that they say is that this mechanism put in place but the reality of it is not an either/or. I think that I want to hear that your transformational story you at the same time I want to hear the evidence that lead you to believe that this is what changed you.

Yeah, it wasn't your imagination.

It wasn't you were ready for a change. Anyway got that actually it was God's Holy Spirit based in this true worldview. So I think what happens if you're used to sharing your your transformational story with people and seems to fall on deaf ears will try sharing that testimony about your transformation along with the evidence for Christianity around us until you'll have a different experience while getting most of us when people say I was forever changed by this one, people were which forever changed by their Buddhist experience by their Muslim experience by Oprah Winfrey. It doesn't mean this is the true what I want to know is not so much power you change on here that I want to know why you are attributing it to this what why do you think this is what changed you, and that's what having the evidence in your pocket can be helpful, will you want this evidence in your pocket the better of a big pocket because I got up I think if you withheld person of interest by G. Warner Wallace, but this is a resource that you will consult again and again footnoted, researched, well written, but at the same time illustrated in made understandable, so anyone I think a young man or a young woman be able to understand this as well as someone who is older and more of a reader.

This is something everyone can benefit from. It's a brand-new book called person of interest. Subtitled why Jesus still matters in the world that rejects the Bible, written by former cold case detective J.

Warner Wallace and will send you your copy for your gift of any size you illustrated your donation that helps the studies to continue each day.

It's really an investment in change lives not only help your own spiritual education, but it helps us reach out to others who need the gospel so thank you so much for your donation today. Write a new beginning. Box 4000, Riverside, CA 92514 or call 1-800-821-3300.

That's a 24 seven phone number 1-800-821-3300 or go online to harvest.org and again the title of the book is person of interest everybody Greg Laurie here. You know my uncle Fred Jordan at one of the first Christian TV programs out there. It was called church in the home.

I remember watching that.

That's a little boy when I was living with my grandparents only have church in the home for you every weekend is called harvest that divided harvest.org we have worship in a message of God's word. So join us this weekend for harvest of home harvest.1 of the phrases of the beatitude is blessed are those who are persecuted for righteousness sake, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven. Happy are the persecuted pastor Greg unravels that ministry next time is turns to a series sermon on the Mount Hope you'll join us new beginning. Thanks Marilyn beginning Greg Laurie, a podcast made possible by harvest partners, helping people everywhere know God sign up for daily devotions and learn how to become a harvest partner harvest.org