Suffer Strong Interview with Authors Katherine & Jay Wolf - II

The following message from Pastor Greg Laurie is made possible by harvest partners, helping people everywhere know God, to find out how to know God personally go to know God.org K NOW know God.org he would you do me a favor sure this message was someone who needs to hear it today offers Dragon speak with Pastor Greg Laurie about the wonderful ability given Catherine by her and this should I think of my physical wheelchair being the world. Wednesday the world would say wheelchair valid grounds in the wheelchair but I believe that is actually wheelchair takes me to do my life beginning were so happy to have some special gifts with us on the program. Pastor Greg Laurie and his wife Kathy are here and also with us or Catherine and Jay Wolf the wolves of authored a new book called suffer strong. It's a book filled with hope hope in the midst of crisis and tragedy. It's their journey.

Following a near fatal brain stem stroke. Catherine suffered a number of years ago and her disability has changed their lives in some dramatic ways. Pastor, we know the Scripture itself in court of the time like this. And maybe without full comprehension is Romans 828 that says we know that all things work together for good to those that love God, the called according to his purpose. And I think sometimes we think that means that a bad thing, will suddenly turn into a good thing but in reality that things happen to Christians that always were bad things like rent since 11 years ago, our son Christopher died in an automobile accident. I'll never regards Catherine and she is a good thing that what I would say though is a good God is brought good things despite a really bad thing, and Internet.

I think also what we get to heaven.

I wonder if we will not rethink the word good because that which was perceived as bad on planet Earth will actually be looked at is good from an eternal perspective because it would've produced in our life and just loved my material all that important thoughts about that first all Romans 828 is totally true and it does not say things that are totally true because God love is not attached to anything in our for the whole world and I think 45 three says I will give you hidden tractor in the which is stored in secret places so that you may know that I am not the God of God is something you by name and a beautiful thought in our nightmares and in the darkness is that there is trash. There when you have to gut the darkness we get to be treasure bearers for the rest of our lives, then back in the extremely cold comfort when you have a child diary.

You have a Masters course in any of our horrific nightmares, but the thought of God selecting us and giving us a treasure is a comfort?

Yeah I'm I would say I went on that journey probably eight years ago to understand the goodness of God and reconcile some of that junk that I've always believed in light of what happened to Jack in a negative way. Just things that people would say to me that are putting Jesus Band-Aids on bullet wounds and things that really can only be classified as like a Christian cliché that was almost meaningless and very painful and what I found is that the word good is totally defined wrongly and our world that true goodness says Sir Richard Baker, a theologian from 1600 that true goodness can never be withheld from Psalm 8411 is true because the truly good things of God are not things that all the truly good that things are peace of conscience.

Joy in the Holy Spirit the fruition of his presence in the life and the assurance of his face in the next and those things are not things the world can touch matter what's going on in our broken lives the untouchable things inside of us are the truly good ones that cannot be without a Catherine in the book suffer strong you explain what you call invisible wheelchairs. Yes, you point out, we all have invisible wheelchairs lady explained that yeah goodness, I think you know, I'm the one who is sitting in the external wheelchair that you see. But everybody has wheelchairs. You just don't always see him. We all have tremendous limitations in life and whether or not there on the inside of the outside with all that stuff baggage. We got a lot of her memories that are painful things they've done things that have been done them very much in this day – I think there is a growing awareness of mental health, and all the things that maybe you don't have an external wheelchair but you got some serious anxiety class yet eating disorders all kinds of different stuff you don't see that is so powerful to see all of these various types of limitations as being actually I believe avenues toward Freetown, you know why I think of my actual physical wheelchair as being quite the opposite of what the world would say the world would say I'm wheelchair bound. I wheelchair ballot bound to the wheelchair, but I believe that is so ludicrous that actually I'm wheelchair free.

The wheelchair frees me to do my life. The wheelchair frees me to go where I want to go this let the Avenue to my freedom the wheelchair takes me to do my lifestyle. Actually that tremendous limitation of the chair that I said that actually is helping me be free and that is to I believe in all of our stories, but I think if we don't do what most of the world does not mean the world most of the Western world. At least that's when suffering, when just turn off our brain, but instead, especially as Christ followers really turned on the brain and start to recognize my way. I need to put the pieces together here what God is doing in my story, and this deeply ponder recognize wake up to like all of the ways God is at work that I think we can creatively move forward and say, hey, just like I do with my wheelchair like a weight what the world would say is blank is actually blank. And here's why I refuse to believe the lie that this all means nothing and just like this bazaar or that godlike curse to be something stupid, but instead, like God chose me for this is assigned to my life to me and he he is up to something powerful that yes Lord, walking in the way of your tooth. We wait eagerly for you, for your name and your ring down on the desire of our hearts that Isaiah 26, eight, I things and I I love this thought that for his name and fame and we will consider all happenings unearthed us a part of the story. He's right.

I think one of the most them wonderful things and that you guys are doing in providing for the rest of us is you are like season guides along the path you are showing us the way through, and I know they 11 years ago when when Christopher died at every things come crashing down, and I felt like I had written in chalk on a blackboard. My dreams of what Christopher's life was like in our grandchildren that he was bringing into this world and and all of a sudden I took this giant eraser and he just to swipe the blackboard and I felt at sea.

Had it not been for people like yourself and for the word of God and for the saints that have suffered before me.

If we open her eyes in the Scriptures like to Joseph and others who have suffered there so many but we tempted to start a focus on the parts and the transit parts and happy endings in the perfect stories and we overlook these until were in that place and what I love about your book is that you've gone to something that few of us have ever been through and most likely will never go through but it's been deep and like you say this treasures in darkness that you've discovered. You are like the season guides that are taking us to this country that is uncharted for us and many of us feel afraid, and it's wonderful to have you there. Thank you for writing this book. Thank you so much for showing us how to suffer some consumer later at some degree, and in some points were going to suffer.

They just we live in a fallen world is inevitable and I thank you for being such bright lights you know and you know they say one day you will tell your story of overcoming and that will be someone else's survival guide and I think that is so powerful and I completely agree happy when this happened we read every book Johnny Erickson father had ever written.

We may reach back to Corrie 10 boom and read everything always then called on the story from the voices that we needed to inform her and also we got to the library because I wasn't a whole lot that was helpful and then specific, and it also grew very alone and I think that is part of what the enemy does in her suffering. To say nobody would cut it and isolate you and make you feel like there is no way forward and there is no hope, and there is no new beginning.

And so I think it's vital that any of us find this narrative of God in our pain and talk about it until it can coddle connect the dots with just to hear it. And so that's been such a humbling part of our journey and it's not also one directional. I mean, when we go out and get to share our story or what we've learned.

It reminds us that it is true, it makes us want to listen to it even more deeply serve such a powerful cycle sort of lecturing the gospel do know we we love it. We talk about it but there's something about sharing that that re-energizes us as we hear it again as a reminder, this would give our own testimony what God has done for us and you know you mentioned Johnny Erickson taught at what got to know quite well. I'm not alone. She's my mentor. Well, she's just so choose a national treasure, and I'm thinking about one thing about Johnny and that is her wonderful husband, Ken, and I'm thinking also about you Jay and you know God is a law both of these women, Johnny and Catherine to go through this extreme suffering and you and Karen are been there to support your wives, and I just to meet your unsung heroes and I want to say thank God for you, for your faithfulness in standing by your wife and honoring your valves that we all make to our husbands and wives are better and for worse, richer, and for poor but then also for helping them use specifically to for helping Catherine to tell her story. But then you know when when the microphones are often the lights are off and you go back home you're there to help her in impractical physical ways and parenting them and the challenges you continue to face when you're not telling the story in front of thousands of people you still deal with the realities of this and so I just want to say to you, I appreciate your your faithfulness and what a great example. You are of a loving husband.

Thank you. I received out you know, it's very humbling because marriage is humbling. Parenting assembly being a caregiver's ongoing there's no pony have done very wrong, but I think this opportunity for daily receiving book as a gift to fill you up.

It's not thinking too far in advance or too far behind, but just to be present today and so you know what is enough grace for today that enough trouble for today. I'm going to be here and try to make my next best choice and fueled by the, the fruit of the spirit, because this really is not a work I could do on my own. So I'm in a lot of ways, I appreciate the affirmations I feel like it certainly not really me doing the heaviest lifting. So that's a good thing and that's a really freaking thing to do not carry the weight of the world or your loved one on your shoulders as we especially as men so often do we want to fix the problem and we must carry all of that and we don't have to and that's a beautiful gift of just this life with God is that he is the thing that carries us as we carry other people and other things and so were were the team to Catherine. I love that we get to do this together. It's not simple work as you guys know you know specially be in a marriage on mission in a marriage and ministry there some unique challenges there some absolutely beautiful opportunities in glorious things that we get to do something. I think that the whole is bigger than the sum of its parts together the work that we been called to and yet it's not without great sacrifice and it's not without a cost and even a target on her back so side note, we depreciate your purse because it's that's challenging yet we love the second chance of life that we been given when we sit and Catherine often says if you have a pulse, you have a purpose her marriage are both of us were still here. You know, again thoughts frankly and we celebrate our 15th anniversary last fall, and you know I think it's a miracle of any any anniversary and work were kind of embodiments, so were try to keep on going long as cattle will have more this interview, Catherine and Jay Wolf in just a moment, emails, letters and phone calls from listeners are so encouraging to us and they let us know the effectiveness of the studies Prof. Greg I listen to almost daily. Your words have strengthened my faith and help me in my everyday life. Your true blessing when we hear from you. It's also a blessing to us, and it confirms that the program is touching lives here in this community and if you have a comment or story to share, send it to Pastor Greg's email address is greg@harvest.org that's great@harvest.org now. Pastor Greg continues his discussion with his wife Kathy and authors Catherine and Jay Wolf, Catherine. You made the statement a little bit earlier when you said that people were giving you Jesus Band-Aids on bullet wounds and there were Christian clichés. And I'm thinking about after our son died in an automobile accident. The crazy things people said I think wanting to help us but they were actually unhelpful. One person said he wouldn't doesn't kill you only makes you stronger and another person said well you know God must've needed another angel in heaven, the crazy things and only Catherine after you had your stroke what what kind of Jesus" Band-Aids were being put on your bullet wounds and what things that people say that were maybe not helpful, even hurtful, and maybe what were some things that were said to the were helpful and then ultimately what should we say to someone who was suffered greatly when we don't know what to say number one thought a ton about this. I'm so glad you asked because people have said all the weird things all the worst things, what stands out as the top of the list. What would you say hi Megan, you know, using, a verse out of context and things would've again that's great truth that's that's going to be needed in your journey of healing but timing is everything but high time somebody said used to be so beautiful to trying to fill the awkward time.

I was so mad because you used to be so beautiful about is a special way.

But what we have actually that we felt like really should be how Chris didn't move forward in talking to people in the middle of suffering and grief is to pray and cry and be present but don't talk so much like the words are the best words like. Putting on Band-Aids that don't belong like let God do his healing work and you show up and arrest people deeply. There is a powerful ministry of tears, then the powerful ministry of presence, my trying to act like you can fix the problem here 11. Interesting and practical tip because again, here's the deal. Even us.

Having been through this. Probably all to you find yourself guilty of when somebody you know you know is going through a horrible time asking are you doing but just a natural thing just comes out and you want to slap yourself in the face like I know they're not doing great when you notice Sheryl Sandberg whose Facebook have this book in just this thought really capture me sometimes a phrasal, how are you doing and she recommends and how are you doing today because you know there's all this regrets from the past and fears for the future is a swirl around the question of how are you what are you doing this life.

With the tragedy and and yet saying how you doing today is kind of a quick save. So I love that really practically to say it but shrinks it down to the moment.

How are you doing today what can I do to walk through this day with you and be helpful to you so you know the grieving process is is all over the place.

It doesn't fit in the box. It's not one-size-fits-all like Catherine said, showing up and just having people know in their tragedy when their been upended when the bottoms phono that they're not alone and there that they're gonna our community for me because I was singing on the waiting room. I was the one sort of sort of carrying the weight of this season and trying to maintain hope against all odds. The captain was gonna have a life again and then try to care for her child and think through all the medical issues and insurance improbable and you know I think our church community, which we we have plugged into and given her life to the local church which I can't encourage that enough of her 22 and it would've been really easy to move to this new city of LA we were doing law school and entertainment industry and just not really have time or think I will do that later. We have kids and for some reason I was just Lord, we jumped in with both feet into our church and we were the heads of the young marriage group which is kind of weird because we were 22 and had business to run about marriage and after six months of the marriage, but it prepared us for what God had prepared for us and also because we were just sitting on the back row and dipping out what we were doing small groups and being mentor than been discipled in cycling others in all of these things when we needed it the most. The body of Christ does what the body of Christ does best wishes make the invisible God become visible, and you know are our community said look we will hope for you until you can hope for yourself. That's what they done beautiful, but I think that's something that is so important you know people about me. How do you get through hardship for us dealing with our son going to be with the Lord. I thought of three things. It was number one prayer because it's like Catherine you were talking earlier about those nightmares. It's so hard to get to sleep you're filled with worry and anxiety.

So it just was. Pray you know as Philippians says Paul tells us, don't worry about anything, pray about everything in the peace of God that passes all understanding, will guard your heart and mind in Christ. Number two. It was the word of God.

You know just what Scripture says sometimes even quoting Scripture out loud to myself when I engage someone I might call stinking thinking you know thinking that's not biblical thinking. Thoughts of despair and hopelessness in St. Louis and Greg the Bibles and I've quoted Scripture out loud to myself even rebuke you so you're wrong about pictures of the Bible says in the third thing and you hit on the street so beautifully is the church you know the church.

Yes, it has its flaws but my goodness, the Lord, you know him.

Jesus only started one organization when he walked this planet and it's called the church and in the way you are doing it being in a small group mentoring being mentor. Those are all the things I would've told you to do and you are doing them in that have done them and that's what I would say to other folks, you don't have to do life alone.

There is a loving church near you that can help you and could be a family for you. And as Joe, you said Bill hope for you until you can hope again. Well, what a statement yeah I love that the fact that it says on this subtitle is how to survive anything by redefining everything and I think of this book really is a survival guide and it's a training manual not only for those who are currently suffering but for those who will certainly as we all will in this life suffer at some point and it would be good for us to learn ahead of time and maybe we won't experience it like you did. But we can certainly read and learn in. I think it's so important for us as believers in making others be great, but to get to someone who is suffering. Actually, it would be great. But for you to read right now before you suffer.

It's not if it's win and when that happens you want to have in place in your life support systems and that the correct thinking, which I think is really important in this book is how you talk about you. You take control of your thought life and and get these things in your head, at least conceptually so that when things are going okay. I think this is what's going on in this and you don't have the tools ready. So thank you for writing this book and thank you for speaking for all those out there who have suffered and have come through the other side and have a story to tell. And we can sit and learn that community that we have within our small groups and within our churches hopefully is a diverse enough community that will include Dez who had gone to suffering or who are suffering we don't want to just let this happy perfect Instagram life is that's not real life, we really need those face-to-face connections and you guys have written so beautifully and transparently about it. Thank you for thank you, Kathy.

So you've just been listening to Kathy Lori sure her thoughts about this great new book by our guests called supper strong. Their names are Catherine into a wolf and they've come through a time of great difficulty with some would say Catherine is wheelchair-bound, but Catherine says she's wheelchair free. How can she say such a thing. Welch talks about it in this book that is subtitled how to survive anything by redefining everything and we want to offer this amazing new book to anyone for your gift of any size so we can continue want to teach God's word in the future.

Just like Catherine and Jay and also to proclaim the gospel which is really the only hope because here's the bottom line whatever suffering were going through today hundred years or no wolf tomorrow.

Thought all be dead. What if we put our trust in Christ will be in heaven and what it's really all said and done, are you ready for eternity and that is why we do what we do and I know that really motivates Catherine injury as well so I think this book supper strong is really going to be a great message of hope and encouragement, and will also help you to redefine what you're going through. Try to such a solid source of biblical direction and reassurance and would like to send a copy of supper strong right to your home.

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Join us for Harvest at Home each week, harvest.org Pastor Greg returns to her studies in the book of Nehemiah 11 encouraging counsel on focusing on our work for the Lord matter what opposition we may face be sure to tune in next time you beginning possible by harvest partners, helping people everywhere know God sign up for pastor greats free daily email, devotions@harvest.org